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[longbowrocks]

I'm building a hacker/rigger/face. I have no dice pools over 20 or under 12, and I have 83k left with which to get my drones in order, so no worries there. My problem is that Hackers need TONS of programs to be effective, but they need a SIN to install these programs.

• If I get a maximum rating 6 fake SIN, There's a good chance I will loose almost all my programs (unwired suggests a threshold of 2-4 to make my fake SIN check against, which will rape my programs).
• I feel a real SIN is not an option for me. I'm building the most invisible hacker ever, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to get a negative quality that makes me more visible than most shadowrunners. It really bugs me how hackers should be very anonymous, but sammies are far more so if they just buy Erased (since they hardly ever leave matrix footprints anyway, and there are no dang resonance archives for the physical world).
• The third option involves constantly degrading software. There's no way I can keep up with the checks to repair my own code or patch corporate (X month/1 week check respectively). I couldn't even keep up if my GM allowed me to patch multiple programs simultaneously at a cumulative -1 penalty (a rule I just came up with, but one he might agree to).
• As a subset of option 3, I could hack corporations for the updates, but I doubt my GM would appreciate me going on 24 private hacking missions every month.

All in all, it seems impossible to play a hacker outside of prison (well, I guess I'm open to that as long as they don't take my commlink). Thoughts?

[Halflife]

The check is actually SIN vs a system rating of 2-4 not a threshold of 2-4, so it's not as bad.

The best method for evasion is to use two sets of programs, a cracked version of the program for your runs with the Restrictions/Registration removed and then manually patch it with the updates that come in on your legal program set, thus evading the degradation problem.

[SpellBinder]

In reading Unwired on the purchasing of software with a Fake SIN, it's an opposed test pitting the rating of your Fake SIN against a DP of 2-4. If you've got a rating 6 Fake SIN, your DP is 6 for this. Probably not quite as bad as you are thinking.

If you go with the option of patching yourself, and using the "Rushing The Job" option, you could keep 8 programs up to date on your own (assuming a 4 week month every month) rather simply. If there's another in your group with at least some software skills, the two of you could combine your efforts in upkeeping shared software (assuming your running party isn't too paranoid of each other).

There's also an option in Unwired that directly states that those with connections to warez sites can look for updated copies of software. As a way to make it easy for both sides involved, check with your GM and see if he/she is okay with something like having a hacker group contact (see Runner's Companion for details) and a monthly fee (like an addition to your lifestyle costs, representing a subscription fee to the hacker group) for regular and automatic patches for your cracked software.

[longbowrocks]

In reading Unwired on the purchasing of software with a Fake SIN, it's an opposed test pitting the rating of your Fake SIN against a DP of 2-4. If you've got a rating 6 Fake SIN, your DP is 6 for this. Probably not quite as bad as you are thinking.

Thanks (to both of you) for this. I misread it.

If you go with the option of patching yourself, and using the "Rushing The Job" option, you could keep 8 programs up to date on your own (assuming a 4 week month every month) rather simply.

Not quite enough programs, and I want a lot of free time to toy with all the other extended checks available to hackers.
On another note, is that an actual option? I didn't see it anywhere in Unwired.

If there's another in your group with at least some software skills, the two of you could combine your efforts in upkeeping shared software (assuming your running party isn't too paranoid of each other).

Might be able to do this. It looks like one of my group members is also interested in being a hacker.

There's also an option in Unwired that directly states that those with connections to warez sites can look for updated copies of software. As a way to make it easy for both sides involved, check with your GM and see if he/she is okay with something like having a hacker group contact (see Runner's Companion for details) and a monthly fee (like an addition to your lifestyle costs, representing a subscription fee to the hacker group) for regular and automatic patches for your cracked software.

Are you talking about page 109: pirated software? I read that as buying a new copy at the 10% price whenever I want an update. I'll talk to my GM about it, but maybe the sidebar for open source on page 110 could work too.

[Halflife]

RUSHING THE JOB
In some cases, a character may not have the luxury of taking the time to
do a job right—she needs to complete it by a certain deadline—or else.
In this case, the character can rush the job and cut the interval period
in half. Rushing the job, however, means that errors are more likely to
occur. A glitch is rolled whenever half or more of the dice are a 1 or 2.
She may get it done quicker, but she’s unlikely to do it as well as she
could have if she took her time

[ggodo]

Well, speaking as the GM, Halflife's solution seems most viable, though if you want to talk contact me IRL or by other means.

[Bushw4cker]

I'm building a hacker/rigger/face. I have no dice pools over 20 or under 12, and I have 83k left with which to get my drones in order, so no worries there. My problem is that Hackers need TONS of programs to be effective, but they need a SIN to install these programs.

• If I get a maximum rating 6 fake SIN, There's a good chance I will loose almost all my programs (unwired suggests a threshold of 2-4 to make my fake SIN check against, which will rape my programs).
• I feel a real SIN is not an option for me. I'm building the most invisible hacker ever, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to get a negative quality that makes me more visible than most shadowrunners. It really bugs me how hackers should be very anonymous, but sammies are far more so if they just buy Erased (since they hardly ever leave matrix footprints anyway, and there are no dang resonance archives for the physical world).
• The third option involves constantly degrading software. There's no way I can keep up with the checks to repair my own code or patch corporate (X month/1 week check respectively). I couldn't even keep up if my GM allowed me to patch multiple programs simultaneously at a cumulative -1 penalty (a rule I just came up with, but one he might agree to).
• As a subset of option 3, I could hack corporations for the updates, but I doubt my GM would appreciate me going on 24 private hacking missions every month.

All in all, it seems impossible to play a hacker outside of prison (well, I guess I'm open to that as long as they don't take my commlink). Thoughts?

You DO NOT need a SIN to install Programs, where are you getting this???

[longbowrocks]

Well, speaking as the GM, Halflife's solution seems most viable, though if you want to talk contact me IRL or by other means.

Sounds good to me then. On review, it's also the simplest option. I'll just buy two copies of every program I got. In fact, I might as well Warez the second copy if that's alright with you ggodo.

Just so everyone is clear though, strictly speaking I think this would involve looking at the source code, which involves cracking the software.

[longbowrocks]

You DO NOT need a SIN to install Programs, where are you getting this???

Unwired really expands the rules. The basic idea is that all legally purchased programs are linked to a SIN.

Although the purchase of software usually does not require verification
by the buyer, the actual installation of the program requires
the acceptance of license agreements, registration, and activation
of software components by the manufacturer’s Matrix site that
involves SIN validation and authenticity cross-referencing. Due
to the threat of piracy and illegal filesharing, SIN-based software
registry is a universal security feature.

Command, Edit, Encrypt, Purge, Reality Filter, and Scan), agents,
autosofts, skillsofts, and commercial operating systems acquired by
the basic software rules and prices (see pp. 225–228 and 320–322,
SR4) are considered legal software that include these options by
default. If bought during the game with a commlink that is linked
to a forged ID, gamemasters may call for an ID check (p. 260,
SR4) with a verification system rating of 2–4.

While pirated programs have the advantage of not
being linked to a registered SIN, they are not automatically updated
and patched in the same manner as legal software.

[Bushw4cker]

Remember to get Firewall Rating 6

For a Hacker the best Programs for you to get are:
Common Use Programs (4800 nuyen)
Analyze 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)
Browse 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)
Command 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)
Edit 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)
Encrypt 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)
Scan 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)

Hacking Programs (10000 nuyen)
Exploit-5
Stealth-5

Unrestricted Agent-3 (3600 nuyen)

All other Hacking programs Rating 3 is fine for starting character

[Halflife]

You DO NOT need a SIN to install Programs, where are you getting this???

Per Unwired p. 108

Legal vs. pirated Software
Soware purchased by normal, commercial means from so-
ware vendors or online market places is considered legal soware.
Although the purchase of soware usually does not require veri-
cation by the buyer, the actual installation of the program requires
the acceptance of license agreements, registration, and activation
of soware components by the manufacturer’s Matrix site that
involves SIN validation and authenticity cross-referencing. Due
to the threat of piracy and illegal lesharing, SIN-based soware
registry is a universal security feature.

This also has the unpleasant side effect of giving all your legal programs the Registration program option, which decreases the threshold of the Track test by 1 per registered program used (per p. 115).

[Halflife]

All other Hacking programs Rating 3 is fine for starting character

Needs more SPOOF!

And ECCM is invaluable if you are rigging (depending on the level of jamming you are expecting to encounter).

[longbowrocks]

This also has the unpleasant side effect of giving all your legal programs the Registration program option, which decreases the threshold of the Track test by 1 per registered program used (per p. 115).

Ninja'd, but that is a nasty side effect I didn't see. I DEFINITELY am not using registered programs now.

[ggodo]

Ninja'd, but that is a nasty side effect I didn't see. I DEFINITELY am not using registered programs now.

Well, isn't that why you'd Warez it and cross-patch? It seems like it would work that way if it is allowed to cross-patch.

[Bushw4cker]

Unwired really expands the rules. The basic idea is that all legally purchased programs are linked to a SIN.

How do you crack copy protection on programs?

Cracking copy protection is a Software + Logic (1 hour) Extended Test, with a threshold set by the gamemaster.

As a rule of thumb minimal copy protection should be a threshold of 1-3, regular commercial programs might have a threshold of 10, and professional software would have a threshold of 20 or higher.

This is from Shadowrun 4 FAQ official Site, and for SIN Check it's only for when you buy programs during game play

[Halflife]

Well, isn't that why you'd Warez it and cross-patch? It seems like it would work that way if it is allowed to cross-patch.

Yep. Crack that protection, keep your patches updated, be an invisible Matrix runner.

This is from Shadowrun 4 FAQ official Site, and for SIN Check it's only for when you buy programs during game play

Technically the quote in question refers to *installing* any legally acquired software. The resources you begin play with can come from any source you choose (subject to GM discretion). Personally I always have my hacker program his own (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) , but if you bought them legally you registered with a SIN.

[SpellBinder]

How do you crack copy protection on programs?

Cracking copy protection is a Software + Logic (1 hour) Extended Test, with a threshold set by the gamemaster.

As a rule of thumb minimal copy protection should be a threshold of 1-3, regular commercial programs might have a threshold of 10, and professional software would have a threshold of 20 or higher.

This is from Shadowrun 4 FAQ official Site, and for SIN Check it's only for when you buy programs during game play

Yet another reason to avoid the FAQs for this game. Unwired, page 94, has a table for the thresholds on cracking software:

Common - 9 + Rating
Hacking - 13 + Rating
Agents/IC/Pilot - 13 + Rating
System - 10 + Rating
Firewall - 13 + Rating
Autosoft - 12 + Rating

[Bushw4cker]

Yep. Crack that protection, keep your patches updated, be an invisible Matrix runner.



Technically the quote in question refers to *installing* any legally acquired software. The resources you begin play with can come from any source you choose (subject to GM discretion). Personally I always have my hacker program his own (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) , but if you bought them legally you registered with a SIN.

I would just assume at character creation any programs my players had, as long as character has decent software skill, have the option of being legal or illegal.

[longbowrocks]

How do you crack copy protection on programs?

Cracking copy protection is a Software + Logic (1 hour) Extended Test, with a threshold set by the gamemaster.

As a rule of thumb minimal copy protection should be a threshold of 1-3, regular commercial programs might have a threshold of 10, and professional software would have a threshold of 20 or higher.

This is from Shadowrun 4 FAQ official Site, and for SIN Check it's only for when you buy programs during game play

I should have been more clear about what I meant by "legally purchased". I meant legally purchased software that remains legal. If you crack copy protection, the software starts degrading because it has been cracked.
I kind of extremely covered this already. I'll reduce it to two lines this time:
A. I use software that has trouble with keeping its rating.
or
B. I use legally purchased software, which will require a SIN.

As for the SIN check only applying during play, that depends on whether your using the aside mentioned on page 109, or if your using the general rules that GMs use to keep players from claiming "spent their lives before the campaign nurturing a force 1 spirit to force 20".

[longbowrocks]

Personally I always have my hacker program his own (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Do you keep those updated with corporate programs? I didn't see much for maintenance, except a little snippet that implied you could use the difference between the old rating and the new (Patching, Unwired 119).

[longbowrocks]

I would just assume at character creation any programs my players had, as long as character has decent software skill, have the option of being legal or illegal.

Sounds good. The price is a big difference though. I'd just ask my GM for 12 months before game start to create as many programs as I could, then buy the rest.

[Halflife]

Do you keep those updated with corporate programs? I didn't see much for maintenance, except a little snippet that implied you could use the difference between the old rating and the new (Patching, Unwired 119).

I had about half of my programs legally due to my back story, and then programmed the remaining ones at some point prior to the campaign and kept them up to date with corp patches that I acquired through a connection in exchange for the legal patches on my legal programs using that patching mechanism.

[Fatum]

I should have been more clear about what I meant by "legally purchased". I meant legally purchased software that remains legal. If you crack copy protection, the software starts degrading because it has been cracked.
I kind of extremely covered this already. I'll reduce it to two lines this time:
A. I use software that has trouble with keeping its rating.
or
B. I use legally purchased software, which will require a SIN.

As for the SIN check only applying during play, that depends on whether your using the aside mentioned on page 109, or if your using the general rules that GMs use to keep players from claiming "spent their lives before the campaign nurturing a force 1 spirit to force 20".

Actually, away from the book now, but if I recall, Unwired offers an option to get pirated software at 1/10 the cost, and then update it each month at 1/10 the cost of purchasing a point of rating to get to your current one.
I just add those to the Lifestyle costs, isn't even that significant.

[longbowrocks]

I just add those to the Lifestyle costs, isn't even that significant.

There's an idea. I prefer a more "fire and forget" approach though.

[Yerameyahu]

Doesn't sound familar, Fatum. It's not one of the 3 (apparently comprehensive) options on p109, anyway. Can you get the page ref when you're home?

Barring such a rule, I'd require much more cash to stay current than that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)