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longbowrocks
I'm building a hacker/rigger/face. I have no dice pools over 20 or under 12, and I have 83k left with which to get my drones in order, so no worries there. My problem is that Hackers need TONS of programs to be effective, but they need a SIN to install these programs.
  • If I get a maximum rating 6 fake SIN, There's a good chance I will loose almost all my programs (unwired suggests a threshold of 2-4 to make my fake SIN check against, which will rape my programs).
  • I feel a real SIN is not an option for me. I'm building the most invisible hacker ever, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to get a negative quality that makes me more visible than most shadowrunners. It really bugs me how hackers should be very anonymous, but sammies are far more so if they just buy Erased (since they hardly ever leave matrix footprints anyway, and there are no dang resonance archives for the physical world).
  • The third option involves constantly degrading software. There's no way I can keep up with the checks to repair my own code or patch corporate (X month/1 week check respectively). I couldn't even keep up if my GM allowed me to patch multiple programs simultaneously at a cumulative -1 penalty (a rule I just came up with, but one he might agree to).
  • As a subset of option 3, I could hack corporations for the updates, but I doubt my GM would appreciate me going on 24 private hacking missions every month.

All in all, it seems impossible to play a hacker outside of prison (well, I guess I'm open to that as long as they don't take my commlink). Thoughts?
Halflife
The check is actually SIN vs a system rating of 2-4 not a threshold of 2-4, so it's not as bad.

The best method for evasion is to use two sets of programs, a cracked version of the program for your runs with the Restrictions/Registration removed and then manually patch it with the updates that come in on your legal program set, thus evading the degradation problem.
SpellBinder
In reading Unwired on the purchasing of software with a Fake SIN, it's an opposed test pitting the rating of your Fake SIN against a DP of 2-4. If you've got a rating 6 Fake SIN, your DP is 6 for this. Probably not quite as bad as you are thinking.

If you go with the option of patching yourself, and using the "Rushing The Job" option, you could keep 8 programs up to date on your own (assuming a 4 week month every month) rather simply. If there's another in your group with at least some software skills, the two of you could combine your efforts in upkeeping shared software (assuming your running party isn't too paranoid of each other).

There's also an option in Unwired that directly states that those with connections to warez sites can look for updated copies of software. As a way to make it easy for both sides involved, check with your GM and see if he/she is okay with something like having a hacker group contact (see Runner's Companion for details) and a monthly fee (like an addition to your lifestyle costs, representing a subscription fee to the hacker group) for regular and automatic patches for your cracked software.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 22 2011, 04:16 PM) *
In reading Unwired on the purchasing of software with a Fake SIN, it's an opposed test pitting the rating of your Fake SIN against a DP of 2-4. If you've got a rating 6 Fake SIN, your DP is 6 for this. Probably not quite as bad as you are thinking.

Thanks (to both of you) for this. I misread it.
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 22 2011, 04:16 PM) *
If you go with the option of patching yourself, and using the "Rushing The Job" option, you could keep 8 programs up to date on your own (assuming a 4 week month every month) rather simply.

Not quite enough programs, and I want a lot of free time to toy with all the other extended checks available to hackers.
On another note, is that an actual option? I didn't see it anywhere in Unwired.
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 22 2011, 04:16 PM) *
If there's another in your group with at least some software skills, the two of you could combine your efforts in upkeeping shared software (assuming your running party isn't too paranoid of each other).

Might be able to do this. It looks like one of my group members is also interested in being a hacker.
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 22 2011, 04:16 PM) *
There's also an option in Unwired that directly states that those with connections to warez sites can look for updated copies of software. As a way to make it easy for both sides involved, check with your GM and see if he/she is okay with something like having a hacker group contact (see Runner's Companion for details) and a monthly fee (like an addition to your lifestyle costs, representing a subscription fee to the hacker group) for regular and automatic patches for your cracked software.

Are you talking about page 109: pirated software? I read that as buying a new copy at the 10% price whenever I want an update. I'll talk to my GM about it, but maybe the sidebar for open source on page 110 could work too.
Halflife
QUOTE (SR4A p. 65)
RUSHING THE JOB
In some cases, a character may not have the luxury of taking the time to
do a job right—she needs to complete it by a certain deadline—or else.
In this case, the character can rush the job and cut the interval period
in half. Rushing the job, however, means that errors are more likely to
occur. A glitch is rolled whenever half or more of the dice are a 1 or 2.
She may get it done quicker, but she’s unlikely to do it as well as she
could have if she took her time

ggodo
Well, speaking as the GM, Halflife's solution seems most viable, though if you want to talk contact me IRL or by other means.
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 22 2011, 11:20 PM) *
I'm building a hacker/rigger/face. I have no dice pools over 20 or under 12, and I have 83k left with which to get my drones in order, so no worries there. My problem is that Hackers need TONS of programs to be effective, but they need a SIN to install these programs.
  • If I get a maximum rating 6 fake SIN, There's a good chance I will loose almost all my programs (unwired suggests a threshold of 2-4 to make my fake SIN check against, which will rape my programs).
  • I feel a real SIN is not an option for me. I'm building the most invisible hacker ever, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to get a negative quality that makes me more visible than most shadowrunners. It really bugs me how hackers should be very anonymous, but sammies are far more so if they just buy Erased (since they hardly ever leave matrix footprints anyway, and there are no dang resonance archives for the physical world).
  • The third option involves constantly degrading software. There's no way I can keep up with the checks to repair my own code or patch corporate (X month/1 week check respectively). I couldn't even keep up if my GM allowed me to patch multiple programs simultaneously at a cumulative -1 penalty (a rule I just came up with, but one he might agree to).
  • As a subset of option 3, I could hack corporations for the updates, but I doubt my GM would appreciate me going on 24 private hacking missions every month.

All in all, it seems impossible to play a hacker outside of prison (well, I guess I'm open to that as long as they don't take my commlink). Thoughts?


You DO NOT need a SIN to install Programs, where are you getting this???
longbowrocks
QUOTE (ggodo @ May 22 2011, 04:56 PM) *
Well, speaking as the GM, Halflife's solution seems most viable, though if you want to talk contact me IRL or by other means.

Sounds good to me then. On review, it's also the simplest option. I'll just buy two copies of every program I got. In fact, I might as well Warez the second copy if that's alright with you ggodo.

Just so everyone is clear though, strictly speaking I think this would involve looking at the source code, which involves cracking the software.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ May 22 2011, 04:58 PM) *
You DO NOT need a SIN to install Programs, where are you getting this???

Unwired really expands the rules. The basic idea is that all legally purchased programs are linked to a SIN.
QUOTE (Unwired pg 108)
Although the purchase of software usually does not require verification
by the buyer, the actual installation of the program requires
the acceptance of license agreements, registration, and activation
of software components by the manufacturer’s Matrix site that
involves SIN validation and authenticity cross-referencing. Due
to the threat of piracy and illegal filesharing, SIN-based software
registry is a universal security feature.

QUOTE (Unwired pg 109)
Command, Edit, Encrypt, Purge, Reality Filter, and Scan), agents,
autosofts, skillsofts, and commercial operating systems acquired by
the basic software rules and prices (see pp. 225–228 and 320–322,
SR4) are considered legal software that include these options by
default. If bought during the game with a commlink that is linked
to a forged ID, gamemasters may call for an ID check (p. 260,
SR4) with a verification system rating of 2–4.

QUOTE (Unwired pg 109)
While pirated programs have the advantage of not
being linked to a registered SIN, they are not automatically updated
and patched in the same manner as legal software.
Bushw4cker
Remember to get Firewall Rating 6

For a Hacker the best Programs for you to get are:
Common Use Programs (4800 nuyen)
Analyze 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)
Browse 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)
Command 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)
Edit 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)
Encrypt 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)
Scan 6 (Optimization-1, Ergonomic)

Hacking Programs (10000 nuyen)
Exploit-5
Stealth-5

Unrestricted Agent-3 (3600 nuyen)

All other Hacking programs Rating 3 is fine for starting character

Halflife
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ May 22 2011, 08:58 PM) *
You DO NOT need a SIN to install Programs, where are you getting this???


Per Unwired p. 108

Legal vs. pirated Software
Soware purchased by normal, commercial means from so-
ware vendors or online market places is considered legal soware.
Although the purchase of soware usually does not require veri-
cation by the buyer, the actual installation of the program requires
the acceptance of license agreements, registration, and activation
of soware components by the manufacturer’s Matrix site that
involves SIN validation and authenticity cross-referencing. Due
to the threat of piracy and illegal lesharing, SIN-based soware
registry is a universal security feature.

This also has the unpleasant side effect of giving all your legal programs the Registration program option, which decreases the threshold of the Track test by 1 per registered program used (per p. 115).

Halflife
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ May 22 2011, 09:07 PM) *
All other Hacking programs Rating 3 is fine for starting character


Needs more SPOOF!

And ECCM is invaluable if you are rigging (depending on the level of jamming you are expecting to encounter).
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Halflife @ May 22 2011, 05:09 PM) *
This also has the unpleasant side effect of giving all your legal programs the Registration program option, which decreases the threshold of the Track test by 1 per registered program used (per p. 115).

Ninja'd, but that is a nasty side effect I didn't see. I DEFINITELY am not using registered programs now.
ggodo
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 22 2011, 06:12 PM) *
Ninja'd, but that is a nasty side effect I didn't see. I DEFINITELY am not using registered programs now.

Well, isn't that why you'd Warez it and cross-patch? It seems like it would work that way if it is allowed to cross-patch.
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 23 2011, 01:07 AM) *
Unwired really expands the rules. The basic idea is that all legally purchased programs are linked to a SIN.


How do you crack copy protection on programs?

Cracking copy protection is a Software + Logic (1 hour) Extended Test, with a threshold set by the gamemaster.

As a rule of thumb minimal copy protection should be a threshold of 1-3, regular commercial programs might have a threshold of 10, and professional software would have a threshold of 20 or higher.

This is from Shadowrun 4 FAQ official Site, and for SIN Check it's only for when you buy programs during game play
Halflife
QUOTE (ggodo @ May 22 2011, 09:17 PM) *
Well, isn't that why you'd Warez it and cross-patch? It seems like it would work that way if it is allowed to cross-patch.


Yep. Crack that protection, keep your patches updated, be an invisible Matrix runner.

QUOTE (Bushw4acker)
This is from Shadowrun 4 FAQ official Site, and for SIN Check it's only for when you buy programs during game play


Technically the quote in question refers to *installing* any legally acquired software. The resources you begin play with can come from any source you choose (subject to GM discretion). Personally I always have my hacker program his own biggrin.gif, but if you bought them legally you registered with a SIN.
SpellBinder
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ May 22 2011, 06:25 PM) *
How do you crack copy protection on programs?

Cracking copy protection is a Software + Logic (1 hour) Extended Test, with a threshold set by the gamemaster.

As a rule of thumb minimal copy protection should be a threshold of 1-3, regular commercial programs might have a threshold of 10, and professional software would have a threshold of 20 or higher.

This is from Shadowrun 4 FAQ official Site, and for SIN Check it's only for when you buy programs during game play

Yet another reason to avoid the FAQs for this game. Unwired, page 94, has a table for the thresholds on cracking software:

Common - 9 + Rating
Hacking - 13 + Rating
Agents/IC/Pilot - 13 + Rating
System - 10 + Rating
Firewall - 13 + Rating
Autosoft - 12 + Rating
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Halflife @ May 23 2011, 01:26 AM) *
Yep. Crack that protection, keep your patches updated, be an invisible Matrix runner.



Technically the quote in question refers to *installing* any legally acquired software. The resources you begin play with can come from any source you choose (subject to GM discretion). Personally I always have my hacker program his own biggrin.gif, but if you bought them legally you registered with a SIN.


I would just assume at character creation any programs my players had, as long as character has decent software skill, have the option of being legal or illegal.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ May 22 2011, 05:25 PM) *
How do you crack copy protection on programs?

Cracking copy protection is a Software + Logic (1 hour) Extended Test, with a threshold set by the gamemaster.

As a rule of thumb minimal copy protection should be a threshold of 1-3, regular commercial programs might have a threshold of 10, and professional software would have a threshold of 20 or higher.

This is from Shadowrun 4 FAQ official Site, and for SIN Check it's only for when you buy programs during game play

I should have been more clear about what I meant by "legally purchased". I meant legally purchased software that remains legal. If you crack copy protection, the software starts degrading because it has been cracked.
I kind of extremely covered this already. I'll reduce it to two lines this time:
A. I use software that has trouble with keeping its rating.
or
B. I use legally purchased software, which will require a SIN.

As for the SIN check only applying during play, that depends on whether your using the aside mentioned on page 109, or if your using the general rules that GMs use to keep players from claiming "spent their lives before the campaign nurturing a force 1 spirit to force 20".
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Halflife @ May 22 2011, 05:26 PM) *
Personally I always have my hacker program his own biggrin.gif

Do you keep those updated with corporate programs? I didn't see much for maintenance, except a little snippet that implied you could use the difference between the old rating and the new (Patching, Unwired 119).
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ May 22 2011, 05:40 PM) *
I would just assume at character creation any programs my players had, as long as character has decent software skill, have the option of being legal or illegal.

Sounds good. The price is a big difference though. I'd just ask my GM for 12 months before game start to create as many programs as I could, then buy the rest.
Halflife
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 22 2011, 09:55 PM) *
Do you keep those updated with corporate programs? I didn't see much for maintenance, except a little snippet that implied you could use the difference between the old rating and the new (Patching, Unwired 119).


I had about half of my programs legally due to my back story, and then programmed the remaining ones at some point prior to the campaign and kept them up to date with corp patches that I acquired through a connection in exchange for the legal patches on my legal programs using that patching mechanism.
Fatum
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 23 2011, 05:47 AM) *
I should have been more clear about what I meant by "legally purchased". I meant legally purchased software that remains legal. If you crack copy protection, the software starts degrading because it has been cracked.
I kind of extremely covered this already. I'll reduce it to two lines this time:
A. I use software that has trouble with keeping its rating.
or
B. I use legally purchased software, which will require a SIN.

As for the SIN check only applying during play, that depends on whether your using the aside mentioned on page 109, or if your using the general rules that GMs use to keep players from claiming "spent their lives before the campaign nurturing a force 1 spirit to force 20".
Actually, away from the book now, but if I recall, Unwired offers an option to get pirated software at 1/10 the cost, and then update it each month at 1/10 the cost of purchasing a point of rating to get to your current one.
I just add those to the Lifestyle costs, isn't even that significant.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Fatum @ May 22 2011, 06:39 PM) *
I just add those to the Lifestyle costs, isn't even that significant.

There's an idea. I prefer a more "fire and forget" approach though.
Yerameyahu
Doesn't sound familar, Fatum. It's not one of the 3 (apparently comprehensive) options on p109, anyway. Can you get the page ref when you're home?

Barring such a rule, I'd require much more cash to stay current than that. smile.gif
SpellBinder
I think this is what Fatum is thinking about:
QUOTE (Arsenal, Page 94)
Program updates and patches are also available on underground file sharing networks and may be located in the same way. The cost for program patches and updates (which restore the degraded program to its full rating) is 10 percent of the difference in street cost between the program’s current (degraded) rating and its full rating. All programs, updates, etc. from an underground file-sharing network have their copy protection cracked, if they ever had any to begin with.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 22 2011, 09:00 PM) *
Barring such a rule, I'd require much more cash to stay current than that. smile.gif

Well, there is the fact that a strategy of that sort banks on a short game. It's going to set you back a bit every month, and after 9 months have passed, you'll start wishing you had bought the programs legit. wink.gif
Fatum
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 23 2011, 09:18 AM) *
I think this is what Fatum is thinking about:
Yep, that seems to be the ruling I remember.

QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 23 2011, 11:02 AM) *
Well, there is the fact that a strategy of that sort banks on a short game. It's going to set you back a bit every month, and after 9 months have passed, you'll start wishing you had bought the programs legit. wink.gif
In nine months, you're either dead, double dead, rich or much more proficient, so either way you're unlikely to have those programs stay that long.
TheOOB
Who ever said software with the registration and copy protection options were always legal? There are plenty of black and grey market sources who are more than happy to sell you a black hammer program with those options(thus it's supported) without needing pesky things like a SIN, or a distribution license.

Those program options just mean that the thing gets updated by someone, and any copies don't get the updates. Whether you get it legally from Wire Wizards or illegally from some freelance programmer, the options work the same.
PoliteMan
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 23 2011, 03:02 PM) *
Well, there is the fact that a strategy of that sort banks on a short game. It's going to set you back a bit every month, and after 9 months have passed, you'll start wishing you had bought the programs legit. wink.gif

Nah, consider an R6 hacking program.
Buying it legit is 6000
Pirated is 600 and 100 a month on updates. It'll take over 3 years for the Pirated version to cost more than the Legit version.

Just consider it your new lifestyle cost, since every hacker spoofs their lifestyle.
Hida Tsuzua
I second piracy. You don't have to buy a new program when it degrades, you just have to pay ten percent of the difference in cost between the degraded rating and the full rating of a program (Unwired 94). It's annoying that you can't start play with pirated programs, but your GM might allow you to start with them. Otherwise you're just a man carrying a browse program on a nice commlink for a run or two.
Magus
AFB right now but your own CREATED/WRITTEN software does not degrade. I thought that was in the Unwired Errata or if you go by it The FAQ (of doom and misery).
suoq
Sanity check: 1st check with your gamemaster. What Unwired has done has been to add a lot of overhead and dice rolling to the game that has everyone but the hacker watching Netflix and advances the plot nowhere. Unless you have some plot device that centers around pirated software, registration, and the hacker, throw all that overhead out the window because it isn't doing your game any good.

Shouldn't the registration on everyone's commlink OS make it easy to trace every call between your fixxer and your teammates? Does anyone ever care if their tacnet is registered? Do they worry that their tacnet is reporting everything back to some home corporation? Is every negotiation the face makes with the emotisoft recorded and reported to some megacorp through it's registration? Does using smartguns make it easier to trace back who capped the security guards? My bet is that all that overhead and annoyance is ignored for everyone except the hacker and the hacker puts up with it because piracy makes software insanely cheap and those rules just give him a bunch of personal attention at no real risk.

Talk to your GM and toss out the rules that don't serve the game.
Yerameyahu
Your hand-written software totally degrades. It just doesn't do it *because of* planned obsolescence.

RE: Fatum's rule, for some reason I read his post as '10% for the program, then 1% for the updates'. smile.gif It's the same 10% both cases, of course.
Shaikujin
QUOTE (Magus @ May 23 2011, 12:14 PM) *
AFB right now but your own CREATED/WRITTEN software does not degrade. I thought that was in the Unwired Errata or if you go by it The FAQ (of doom and misery).


That's what I thought too. This is from the Unwired errata:

QUOTE
p. 109 Pirated Software
Replace the final paragraph of this section with the following
text:
“Degradation of pirated software owes as much to systemic
software and firmware upgrades demanding compatibility
updates as to the megacorporations making regular updates
an anti-piracy feature. In 2070, obsolescence and latent program
degradation is hardcoded into software and is triggered
when compromised software is flagged. Patching and upgrades
are transformed into a security feature.
Software programmed by the hacker and Open Source
programs never degrade in this fashion
, but may require patching
to remain current at the gamemaster’s discretion.


Emphasis mine. Self-written and Open Source programs do not have any inherently coded degradation. This changes the need for patching to an exception rather than the rule.

Also, on pg 110, there's the following optional rule sidebar regarding open source programs:

QUOTE
Alternatively, open source programs produced by warez groups
might be traded for free or patched up more regularly, as long as the
hacker character maintains a warez contact and contributes to the
group. For each piece he contributes, the hacker may download a
number of programs equal to the contact’s Loyalty rating
.


Emphasis mine. It's an optional rule, but if your GM allows it, a loyalty 6 contact should allow you to reduce the number of programs you need to write/patch to 1/6.

Magus
Ah Ha so I was not crazy delusional when I posted that! Thanks Shaikujin!. I last read Unwired about a year ago and that was from Memory. LOL

Go Go gadjet brainware!
Yerameyahu
"in this fashion, but may require patching
to remain current at the gamemaster’s discretion.
"

Emphasis!!! Mine!1 Hehehe.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 23 2011, 06:40 AM) *
"in this fashion, but may require patching
to remain current at the gamemaster’s discretion.
"

Emphasis!!! Mine!1 Hehehe.



Note that it says MAY require patching, NOT DOES require patching... Important distinction there Yerameyahu...
Yerameyahu
Right. They only require patching if the GM isn't dumb. Which I suppose he'd have to be if you're self-coding programs at any reasonable rate, because that requires the sneaky 1/8-time method. wink.gif

By the way, Tymeaus, whose emphasis is that in your post? I claim it for myself! Your emphasis mine!
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 23 2011, 06:44 AM) *
Right. They only require patching if the GM isn't dumb. wink.gif By the way, Tymeaus, whose emphasis is that in your post? I claim it for myself! Your emphasis mine!


I tend to approach it another way. If the character has taken the time to program his software in game, then I have no real issues with him getting a bonus of not having to worry about patching them. Since Programs only set the threshold limits in our game, and do not add dice (Optional Rule that I know I have previously discussed), it does not really matter all that much. It is an insignificant cost to maintain programs in game anyways. It is a perk for those who take the time to acutally do something other than shooting people in the face for money. And it generates interesting stories to boot, which I consider a bonus. Much like that story in Unwired about Slammo! purchasing/trading programs because he needed a high rated program from another hacker that he did not have.

You can have the credits for the Emphasis... All yours !!! wobble.gif
Cheops
Does it really matter at all how much a hacker's programs cost and what rating they are? Hacking is so trivial now that I find it hard to care.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (PoliteMan @ May 23 2011, 02:57 AM) *
Nah, consider an R6 hacking program.
Buying it legit is 6000
Pirated is 600 and 100 a month on updates. It'll take over 3 years for the Pirated version to cost more than the Legit version.

Just consider it your new lifestyle cost, since every hacker spoofs their lifestyle.

Ah, good point. I calculated based on the original cost, not the updates.
SpellBinder
QUOTE (Cheops @ May 23 2011, 06:52 AM) *
Does it really matter at all how much a hacker's programs cost and what rating they are? Hacking is so trivial now that I find it hard to care.

It will when your degraded Rating one Analyze and Firewall programs can't detect a hacker using SOTA Rating 6 Exploit and Stealth programs to break into your commlink. You could find yourself with an empty contacts list and bank account, among other things.

On the flip side, it still will when your degraded Rating one Exploit program can't reasonably cut through a SOTA Rating 6 Firewall without alerting someone because your degraded Rating one Stealth program can't hide your shadow in a dark room.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ May 23 2011, 01:00 PM) *
using SOTA Rating 6 Exploit and Stealth programs to break into your commlink.

SOTA: Shadow of the American?

In other news, how do you get 1/8 interval for programming? I'm aware of rushing the job and programming environments, but that's all I can think of.
Yerameyahu
It was mentioned earlier: optional rule to spend Edge for halving the interval. Feh.
James McMurray
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ May 23 2011, 10:25 PM) *
It was mentioned earlier: optional rule to spend Edge for halving the interval. Feh.


Nobody has asked for that optional rule, but I'd allow it. Edge refreshes every session and has been incredibly important in our campaign. Please spend it during downtime before the run even starts. grinbig.gif
PoliteMan
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ May 24 2011, 12:18 PM) *
SOTA: Shadow of the American?

SOTA=State of the Art (at least that's been my reading)

QUOTE (James McMurray @ May 24 2011, 12:31 PM) *
Nobody has asked for that optional rule, but I'd allow it. Edge refreshes every session and has been incredibly important in our campaign. Please spend it during downtime before the run even starts. grinbig.gif

Careful with that, it can lead to some crazy programming stuff.
For example, coding a R12 hacking program is a (24, 1 Month) extended test.

Now a basic hacker is looking at a Logic of 7, Skill of 5 (ish), +5 from from various logic-skill upgrades, and an additional +5 from the Programming environment/assist program in Unwired, so 22 dice. That's 3-4 tests to complete at half-a-week per test. I think most hackers would gleefully drop a point or two of Edge to churn out a R12 program every 2 weeks.
longbowrocks
Thanks for the synopsis on SOTA.

What are you going to run an R12 program on? Are you suggesting the optimization program option?
PoliteMan
Yeah, that'd be the only way to run it on any reasonable commlink.

*beat*

Of course, dropping edge, you'd be able to get the interval for programming your own System down from 6 months to roughly 3 weeks, which is fairly doable over a couple sessions. Of course, getting your response up high enough to run it would require a crap ton of money and probably an argument with your GM over the Availability of parts but building that R12 Nexus begins to look very doable.

And of course, if you had a Nexus with system 12, you could theoretically program R18 programs...

Yeah, James, I really wouldn't recommend you let your players use that rule.
longbowrocks
QUOTE (PoliteMan @ May 23 2011, 07:57 PM) *
building that R12 Nexus begins to look very doable.

*just barely. Don't you need to buy the best hardware available from WAR, and then build your own modules to upgrade that by +2 to 12? That's all I can think of, and that's the absolute limit as far as I know.
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