Game legal Weapon, Heavily customized Auto Assault 18... Options

[Crazy Ivan]

Yeah, I know in RL a clip is different than a drum. But I was curious about game mechanics, logistics, and if it was even possible. Even an on the spot judgement and call about using the additional drum as a clip (such as it costing an extra mod slot or something) would be acceptable, but either way, I got to finally play the character with that weapon recently and loved it. The DM was new, and didn't see anything wrong with the idea, but she is really new to DM'ing (but did an awesome job overall).

[Draco18s]

Yeah, I know in RL a clip is different than a drum. But I was curious about game mechanics, logistics, and if it was even possible. Even an on the spot judgement and call about using the additional drum as a clip (such as it costing an extra mod slot or something) would be acceptable, but either way, I got to finally play the character with that weapon recently and loved it. The DM was new, and didn't see anything wrong with the idea, but she is really new to DM'ing (but did an awesome job overall).

Seeing as "extended clip" and "extended drum" are two different mods* with two different mod-slot requirements, I would say that the game makes a rather large distinction between the two.

*Listed under the same mod in the description, but have different rules as to what the mod does, as well as a different cost, availability, concealment modifier, threshold for building, and required tools.

[Modular Man]

Well, there's the german "Arsenal"-only AK-127, an assault rifle that features two drums.
It also sends any idea of concealing that weapon over board. So a GM might hand-wave it into existence.

[Crazy Ivan]

Yeah, AA-18 I designed isn't meant to be subtle. It is the "uh-oh" button for when things hit the fan. It is often carried in a massive duffel bag, and carrying it by hand is NEVER subtle.

[KarmaInferno]

So the gun fires a tiny 18-gauge shotshell, huh?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)





-k

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Sigh... *Shakes head*

[Yerameyahu]

I'm not sure why that keeps getting mentioned. It's 16 in the book (and yes, it's a departure from the naming of the AA12… *shrug*).

[Crazy Ivan]

hehehe....oops. I don't know why I was thinking 18. I wasn't anywhere near the books or the infamous Chummer program where the character and weapon are stored for me. Thanks for correcting me and making me feel like a dolt.

[KarmaInferno]

I was more making fun of the fact that the real life weapon all this is based on is the AA-12, and the reason there's a "12" on the end of the name is cos it's a 12-gauge shotgun - something the writer of the AA-16 seemingly didn't realize.

So, logically, an AA-16 would use 16-gauge shotshells, and an AA-18 would use 18-gauge.

Note that in shotgun terms, the larger the gauge number, the smaller the shell actually is. A 2-gauge "punt gun", for example, is freaking enormous.




-k

[CanRay]

Yeah, AA-18 I designed isn't meant to be subtle. It is the "uh-oh" button for when things hit the fan. It is often carried in a massive duffel bag, and carrying it by hand is NEVER subtle.

You mean a Panther Cozy? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Note that in shotgun terms, the larger the gauge number, the smaller the shell actually is. A 2-gauge "punt gun", for example, is freaking enormous.
-k

Punt Guns, the original Assault Cannons! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Actually, they were designed for "Industrial Duct Hunting".

[Yerameyahu]

Duck.

[KarmaInferno]

Where?







-k

[Yerameyahu]

Scattered all over the water, after firing a punt 'gun'.

[CanRay]

Scattered all over the water, after firing a punt 'gun'.

It very much is a gun.

Considering that Guns are what is towed around or what Navy Ships carry. Everything else is "Small Arms". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Words change. But I meant more that it's a kettle full of nails, as opposed to an actual firearm. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[X-Kalibur]

Actually, punt guns were 6, 8 and 10 gauge. They were decried as "unsportsman like" and haven't been used in a very long time for that reason. Just steer your boat towards a flock of ducks and... well, I can't imagine there was that much duck left.

[Fauxknight]

I was more making fun of the fact that the real life weapon all this is based on is the AA-12, and the reason there's a "12" on the end of the name is cos it's a 12-gauge shotgun - something the writer of the AA-16 seemingly didn't realize.

So, logically, an AA-16 would use 16-gauge shotshells, and an AA-18 would use 18-gauge.

I have this issue too. I'm 99% sure the writer was just clueless, but there is always the chance that the gun actually does fire smaller shells. Its the future, a lot of things can change and the popularity of different caliber ammunition is known to jump up and down quite a bit with time.

It does matter a lot when you get to the drum though, a 32 round 16 gauge drum might be reasonable, where as a 32 round 12 gauge drum would generally be extremely large. In either case there are ways to cram more ammo into the same sized drum, but the technical aspects of doing so are difficult and expensive enough that they tend to not get made.

Game wise the gun uses a drum or (d) for its ammo feeding. The extended clip mod and dual clip mod can't be used because it doesn't use a clip (c )and you can't use a bigger drum because it doesn't fall under the defined weapon categories. Same as the gas vents that would not normally be allowed, just be happy with what you get already for free.

Someone asked about the real life difference between clips and drum. Technically you should use the terms magazine and drum (or drum magazine, its still a magazine, just in drum shape), as clip is the incorrect term (a clip holds ammo ready to be inserted into a mag like a stripper clip or a revolver speed loader), but the term clip is used in Shadowrun to differentiate a weapon with a detachable magazine (c ) from one with an internal magazine (m). As far as the difference between loading a magazine and a drum, they generally fit into the same weapon with little or no modification, in fact the AA12, which the AA16 is obviously based off of, uses both stick mags and drums, both of which are perfectly interchangeable on the same weapon, the drums are just bigger. Another shotgun that does similar is the Saiga 12, which will use most magazines and drums unless you add a magwell for faster magazine swaps, at which point you usually have to use custom mags and generally can't use a drum. Heres mine with a 5 round mag, a couple of 8 round mags, and a 20 round drum (and yes it has both accessories and modifications).

[Fauxknight]

Found another error, this one in the calculated recoil reduction. The accessory item 'sling' does not add any recoil compensation, that needs to be swapped out for the modification item 'sling'. The modification version does not take up any slots and is cheaper, but apparently requires some technical expertise to attach to the gun.

[Crazy Ivan]

Aye, that's true. The fact that the sling mod and the sling accessory both don't offer the same thing is kinda silly. I guess the reasoning is that the accessory is just a weak little clip whereas the mod is secured onto it.

[Yerameyahu]

Logic is not important for naming things. The AA16 is 4 more than the AA12, just like 11 is one louder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fauxknight]

Logic is not important for naming things. The AA16 is 4 more than the AA12, just like 11 is one louder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

They got one thing right, the AA12 has an abysmally low rate of fire, it using half as much ammo as any other full auto weapon for a spray and pray action is an understatement. It also has low recoil, but not because of gas vents.

[X-Kalibur]

Logic is not important for naming things. The AA16 is 4 more than the AA12, just like 11 is one louder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And a 4.0 quake is only a little weaker than a 5.0 quake. Right? Right?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Note that in shotgun terms, the larger the gauge number, the smaller the shell actually is. A 2-gauge "punt gun", for example, is freaking enormous.
-k

26 Pounds... Has a Shell that is about the size of a Red Bull Can (1.2 Inches Diameter, and about 4-5 Inches long), and the actual bullet weighs in at 3500 Grains. You can buy one for about $26,000 Custom Designed.

Unfortunately, I cannot afford one.

[KarmaInferno]

They got one thing right, the AA12 has an abysmally low rate of fire, it using half as much ammo as any other full auto weapon for a spray and pray action is an understatement. It also has low recoil, but not because of gas vents.

Well, to put things in perspective, an AA-12 shooting once with buckshot is a little like an SMG shooting 8 times or so.

So even at a slow ROF, it's putting a lot of projectiles in the air.




-k

[Yerameyahu]

It's silly that gauge is even still used. We have millimeters!