Rigging..., ...Myself Options

[WhiskeyJohnny]

So I've seen the idea put out here and there, and I'd like to explore it - if I were to get a stirrup system in my char, would I be able to rig myself (and get, say, five IPs)? I think this could be a fun character concept, and mechanically it'd be an interesting option - if there are there adequate rules for it.

What would this look like to play? I've never played a rigger, so I'm not up on the particulars of how they run - is there a guide to playing a rigger somewhere?

Last, how would this interact with, say, a paraplegic or quadriplegic character? Would they be able to move under their own power?

[Harboe]

No.
No amount of rules abuse will let you use vehicle/drone modfication rules to make your physical body rigging-compatible.

Any sane GM would smack you over the head with SR4A (thicker and with more pages than SR4) and tell you to be sensible or get out.

---

Now, buying a drone and modding it to the max and rigging it, while playing a paraplegic? Sure. Search "+Wheelchair +rigger +drone" or something similar to get the first hundred threads dealing with such things.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

No.
No amount of rules abuse will let you use vehicle/drone modfication rules to make your physical body rigging-compatible.

Any sane GM would smack you over the head with SR4A (thicker and with more pages than SR4) and tell you to be sensible or get out.

---

Now, buying a drone and modding it to the max and rigging it, while playing a paraplegic? Sure. Search "+Wheelchair +rigger +drone" or something similar to get the first hundred threads dealing with such things.

I'm talking about making myself a biodrone, using the stirrup system implant from Augmentation.

I'm well aware of both the search function and the Wheelchair Rigger Archetype, thanksyamuch.

[Harboe]

Wait, making yourself a biodrone, or making yourself into a biodrone.

Because, while I will admit to the possibility of the latter being RAW, it makes no sense that interfacing with your own body through a commlink/datajack and stirrup would make you faster than when your brain is communicating directly with your body.

Now, as weird as the concept sounds to me, I have to ask: Is there any other reason for you thinking this concept is interesting apart from 5IP?
Because I can't see how "I use my brain to control my body" is intriguing.
In fact, I'm quite convinced that every other character in your group will live up to that*?

* Barring AIs, Free Spirits or other creatures that cannot truly be said to possess either a body or brain.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

Making myself into a biodrone. And while, yes, it wouldn't make sense for that to be quicker, I'm just wondering if that's how it would work by the rules. And I guess it could be made to make sense if the transmission medium is superconducting, then it would transmit information much faster than nerves. But that's speculation on my part.

As to my interest in this concept - I'm intrigued by the five IPs, yes, but also in the thematic possibilities of someone who was para/quadriplegic without the stirrups, and the philosophical difference between using a chair and using the 'ware to achieve similar effects. And the possibility of the character being trans(meta)humanist and interested in becoming an infomorph, and this being a step closer to that goal. So it's not just "using my brain to control my body" but rather using my brain to control a body, which happens to be mine. And the possibility of having cloned bodies with different 'wares, sorta' different loadouts, if you will, is interesting, and brings some intriguing ethical issues into play, which could be fun to explore.

[Tanegar]

FYI, you can only get 4IP in the flesh. You could spend the 5th pass doing something in the Matrix, but you cannot, under any circumstances, act five times per turn in physical reality.

[WhiskeyJohnny]

FYI, you can only get 4IP in the flesh. You could spend the 5th pass doing something in the Matrix, but you cannot, under any circumstances, act five times per turn in physical reality.

So if I'm a rigger with five matrix IPs commanding a regular drone, I can only make it act four times?

[Smokeskin]

The stirrup interface comes with MWB, so why is there an issue with doing it?

[WhiskeyJohnny]

The stirrup interface comes with MWB, so why is there an issue with doing it?

I don't know, but I seem to recall there being issues with trying to make one's self a biodrone and then rigging one's own body.

[longbowrocks]

FYI, you can only get 4IP in the flesh. You could spend the 5th pass doing something in the Matrix, but you cannot, under any circumstances, act five times per turn in physical reality.

All 5 can be used in meat. Rigging actions ARE matrix actions, as shown by the bonus from hotsim. It's been discussed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=29138&hl

[Lansdren]

Technically you get five but remember that one of them will be used driving the body as it is a drone and thats the rules.

[longbowrocks]

Yeah, I prefer to just take the crash test if it comes to that though.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yeah, I prefer to just take the crash test if it comes to that though.

Yeah, not like a body is going to take a lot of damage from crashing anyways... So you fall. A bit embarrassing, but you are not going to kill yourself doing it. Of course, it helps if you have enough dice to reliably succeed at the crash test, so it becomes a non-issue.

[Yerameyahu]

Honestly, I'm not convinced (by the repeated arguments) that you can get 5 'meat' IPs through rigging (though I don't care enough to fight about it, hehe).

I'm also not convinced that biodrones and real drones are similar in every way… we once had an argument about whether biodrones can take freaking vehicle mods.

One issue of self-rigging is that there's no RAS in SR4 (the thing that turns off your brain-to-body connection). Instead, you're simply at a -6 to physical actions while in VR. So, you have to wonder if there are fun problems caused by having two simultaneous direct neural connections to your body. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ggodo]

Honestly, I'm not convinced (by the repeated arguments) that you can get 5 'meat' IPs through rigging (though I don't care enough to fight about it, hehe).

I'm also not convinced that biodrones and real drones are similar in every way… we once had an argument about whether biodrones can take freaking vehicle mods.

One issue of self-rigging is that there's no RAS in SR4 (the thing that turns off your brain-to-body connection). Instead, you're simply at a -6 to physical actions while in VR. So, you have to wonder if there are fun problems caused by having two simultaneous direct neural connections to your body. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

This is my new reason for preventing Longbow from doing this.

[longbowrocks]

This is my new reason for preventing Longbow from doing this.

The self rigging? If anything, I just wanted that as a joke. Why would I want to rig a suboptimal body? What I really need to do is convince my street sammy bud to put access to his cyber on his PAN. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

Eh. Formally, the Stirrup Interface only works on animals. So if the question is, "Can I do this in RAW?", the answer is No.

Setting that aside, you have an interesting issue: biofeedback. Every time your meat body takes damage, you get biofeedback, which can also again hurt your meat body. Even if that doesn't start a cycle, it still risks more damage than not-rigging you body.

I do like the general idea, being in a sort of detached, cerebral matrix space, only casually directing your body to go here and there, floating in cyberspace most of the time.. But the technology isn't ready for it yet.

[longbowrocks]

I agree about the feedback loop. Then again, I don't want to rig my body in combat. I don't even have hardened armor!

[Draco18s]

I agree about the feedback loop. Then again, I don't want to rig my body in combat. I don't even have hardened armor!

Wait. Why the hell would you want five initiative passes (a combat thing) outside of combat (where it doesn't matter)?

[Yerameyahu]

Parser error, please retry. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
'I don't want to rig my body *in combat*';
'I don't want to rig *my body* in combat'!

[Udoshi]

Honestly, I'm not convinced (by the repeated arguments) that you can get 5 'meat' IPs through rigging (though I don't care enough to fight about it, hehe).

You'll hardly ever get 5 meat IPS via rigging, though.

If you're rigging, you still need to burn a complex action to control your ride every turn.

Cyborgs are the only thing that gets to ignore that rule.

[Summerstorm]

And everyone confident enough to make the (very easy) crash test...
and everyone who just stand still (if the GM allows it, not RAW)

[Draco18s]

Parser error, please retry. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
'I don't want to rig my body *in combat*';
'I don't want to rig *my body* in combat'!

If he's not rigging his own meat in combat, what's the point of having the stirrup interface at all?

[Yerameyahu]

He said he wants to rig the team's trollsam. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Draco18s]

He said he wants to rig the team's trollsam. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Actually no. What he said was, he wants to hack his sam's gear and have what little good that does him. It's not like he can aim a gun that way.

(If you disagree with this statement and believe that a cybered character can be controlled like a drone without a stirrup interface then you are either dumb or haven't read any of the "hacking cyberware" threads).