 Smartlinks, Image Mods, and Ranged Weapons, Help! |
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 Mar 31 2004, 03:02 AM
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#51
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Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
of course. that doesn't mean that the situation isn't unfortunate, though.
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Mar 31 2004, 03:57 AM
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#52
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
My group has the silent understanding that while wielding large weapons in CQB is not strictly penalized by the rules they will usually use carbines and other smaller weapons in tight quarters for role-playing reasons.
Game balance is not, for the most part, the reason why the firearms rules in Shadowrun are silly. The silliness mainly comes from the fact that the game designers obviously knew little to nothing about firearms. The second most important reason is simplicity, but there's a lot that can be done to make the rules more sensible without making them any more complex. In this particular case, there are already modifiers separately for so many types of gunfire that adding one for sound suppressed rifles (Sporting and up) shouldn't be too difficult, or maybe two in case someone wants a suppressed MMG or HMG. And then CC could have rules for subsonic rifle ammo. I can't see how that'd screw with game balance. Just ranting, nevermind me. |
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Mar 31 2004, 04:15 AM
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#53
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
You hit the nail on the head, Aus.
And you know, most people that complain about additional firearms rules making the game too complicated are perfectly happy agreeing with crap like "all guns of the same type can share ammo" and "suppressing a high-caliber sniper sniper rifle doesn't in the least affect terminal ballistics". And it seems that those of us with at least a modicum of firearm knowledge/experience see the need for more accurate rules that at LEAST aid in the suspension of disbelief, not take away from it. |
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Mar 31 2004, 04:48 AM
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#54
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 400 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 825 |
Yes, heaven forbid that anyone complain about certain rules (or lack thereof) on a forum specifically devoted to disscussion about the game. That's just not right. |
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Mar 31 2004, 06:38 AM
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#55
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Honolulu, HI Member No.: 6,099 |
Btw, with the use of a SML2, you get a +2 tn adjustment to called shots, rather than the +4. Is that before, or after SML adjustments? Do you reduce tn by 2 for a grand total of +0, or does it stay +2. And if it stays +2, how is that really a bonus feature? Wouldn't you reduce that TN anyway with a SML? :)
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Mar 31 2004, 06:56 AM
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#56
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
SL2 changes the modifier of a called shot from +4 to +2. when you use an SL2 to make a called shot, the TN is (Range), +2 for called shot, -2 for SL2, for a total TN of (Range).
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Mar 31 2004, 06:58 AM
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#57
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,154 |
Huh. Somehow doesn't sound right to me...seems too easy to get all those nice aimed shots at the head with no nasty TN modifier.
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Mar 31 2004, 07:03 AM
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#58
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
*shrug* i can do just about the same thing with 8 points of RC and a clip of tracer ammo. Gas-vent IV, personalized grips, foregrip, folding stock, and Str of 6--headshot city, here i come.
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Mar 31 2004, 07:05 AM
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#59
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Target Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,154 |
Eh, good point. Think I'll be investing in sturdy new helmets for some of my favorite characters...
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Mar 31 2004, 07:18 AM
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#60
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Or just not allow called shots to bypass armor and not worry about it.
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Mar 31 2004, 07:42 AM
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#61
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
...which is exactly how it should be. Stupid house rules. :grr:
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Mar 31 2004, 07:59 AM
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#62
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
well, stupid FAQ. there's a discussion i'm not going to get into.
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Mar 31 2004, 09:39 AM
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#63
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Anybody interested can just dig up the (hundreds of thousands of) "Does Called Shot Bypass Armor? I Just Found This In M&M!!!112" flamethreads there have already been.
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Mar 31 2004, 10:13 AM
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#64
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 413 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,835 |
Semi Off topic ... how do you get such high recoil compensation?? I'd love to try the tracer trick, or just have good RC ni general, but I can't seem to beat about ... 4 or 5-ish RC... gas vent IV, shock pads (which of course are totally crap but hey, I'll use them if I can ;)) -- is there something I'm missing? Are these numbers including the -1 from uber-strong characters (which none of mine would qualify for)?
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Mar 31 2004, 10:19 AM
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#65
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I got a pretty good grasp of ballistics (wrote mods for Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six). But I do not have extra House rules for those things you mentioned. The firearm rules aren't broke in my game, and I'm not going to fix it. |
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Mar 31 2004, 10:45 AM
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#66
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
gknoy, recoil comp:
1 to 3 points can be built in, as in the Ares Alpha. Shock Pad(rifle or bigger), stock (smg or smaller), Hip Brace (Hvy Weap) Gas Vents IV, Strength 6+, Foot Anchor(s) Personalized Grip, Heavy Barrel, Bullpup configuration Bipod, Tripod, Gyro-mount, Foregrip, or Barrel Weight |
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Mar 31 2004, 03:13 PM
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#67
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I have a feeling you wouldn't have many extra House Rules even if the rules were completely fucked up. ;) |
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Apr 1 2004, 10:59 PM
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#68
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
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Apr 1 2004, 11:46 PM
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#69
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Why is the Str of 6 important?
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Apr 1 2004, 11:55 PM
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#70
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
There's an optional rule somewhere that strength of 6 or above adds recoil compensation.
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Apr 2 2004, 12:30 AM
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#71
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
optional rule
Cannon Companion, p. 103, "Recoil and Strength" |
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Apr 2 2004, 12:40 AM
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#72
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i personally prefer Raygun's body/reaction average. but, yeah, str is canon, according to cannon.
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Apr 2 2004, 02:01 AM
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#73
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
No shit? *L*, and I remember a time when I was arguing that idea as a house rule on DS. I never read that option...well, guess I'll have to now.
um...I don't have any of my books with me yet...*weeping* (in fact their in another country *weeping harder*.), but if i remember correctly Aiming of any kind requires at least a simple action (it might have been complex, but I think it was simple...hmm). You could increase your TNmodifer by -1 (I think) every Simple Action(might have been complex) that you spent aiming. So...combine that with scopes, and Smartlinks and you get that son-of-a-*bleep* right in the back of the head and watch him do a limp-body-summersault to his death. :grinbig: If anyone out there has a book(I envy you) and knows what I'm talking about, perhaps you might be able to correct the errors in my memory of this rule.(I'm sure there are errors.) |
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Apr 2 2004, 02:08 AM
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#74
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 305 Joined: 24-September 03 From: Albany, OR Member No.: 5,643 |
You are right. Aiming does help the TN. But, you can only get half your weapon skill in bonuses.
I know those quotes were mine, and after reading everything here I think I am going to just stick to what everyone in my group knows already, canon. |
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Apr 2 2004, 06:11 AM
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#75
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 11-December 02 From: The other end of your computer screen Member No.: 3,724 |
All I was saying was that it seemed like you were trying to figure out a way to make aiming take up time(action). But, as you said, it already does...so...I'm lost, we're you thinking of having the Smartlink aim take even longer than normal aiming or something?
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