Hacking a traffic jam, How hard should this be? Options

[Aria]

I have a brewing situation. PCs are stuck in a traffic jam and the bad guys are closing fast on motorbikes. They have proposed hacking the nodes of cars to get them to ram the bikers (rather than get caught on camera in a firefight!)

How hard should this be? Most of the cars will be electric on grid guide (which should be a difficult/very hard hacking task?!?). I guess they’d have to override the auto pilots and tell them to get off the road (simulated emergency vehicle coming through or something like that?!?). Would anti-collision software in the auto pilots stop them ramming the bikers?

It might be easier to hack the nodes of the bikes assuming they aren’t hidden? Or even if they are?

Any ideas welcome!

Thanks

[Wolfgar]

I see a few ways to hack myself out of that situation. The easiest would be to Spoof an emergency vehicle, sending a "clear the road" signal to all the vehicles or traffic/grid guide nodes in the area. However, as it's only a simple Spoofed command and not a true Exploit, it's only a matter of time before some grid guide security spider takes a look at the commotion on a security camera an shuts the whole thing down.

As for hacking the cars and motorbikes, you can assume they have a device rating of 3 (right, guys? it's 5 or 6 for military, 4 for top of the line vehicles, and 2 or 1 for jalopies). That's pretty easy to overcome for a hacker, but if the bad guys are smart, their bikes will be at least slaved to their commlinks, adding one more step to overcome. The same goes for the cars driven by security conscious drivers.

Once past the firewall and inside the node, the hacker only has to locate the Pilot program with Matrix Perception, and then exploit the program or even crash it. To simply disable anti-crash settings, I'd call for a Hacking+Exploit with a threshold of the Pilot's rating.

[Blade]

Unwired (or is it Arsenal?) leaves the security of the GridGuide by having Jackpointers say both that it's easy and hard to hack.

Another solution would be to hack the car to control them but you'll probably have to override the GridGuide connection and/or the vehicle Pilot so it doesn't say "we're pretty sure you don't want to do that so we're preventing you from doing it".

Or they could Spoof a command from the GridGuide, that should override most vehicle's Pilots.

[LurkerOutThere]

Hacking individual cars should be relatively easy, they would likely need at least security level access to override grid guide ( +3 to hacking threshhold ) from there they'd likely need to actively do a command + pilot ground craft test on the targeted car for pass they wanted to keep it pulled away from grid guides influence. Admin level access could likely let them turn off grid guide access entirely and then they could have multiple cars ready to go.

Hacking grid guide itself should be moderately hard, within the realm of possibility but likely not something you want to do mid firefight, I'd give the system about an 8 firewall (for the record this is houserule territory, I let big nexi have 8 response pretty easily) and then kind of go from there.

[squee_nabob]

First they need an access ID authorized to give movement controls to the car. This may be the driver, it may be grid guide, it may not exist (I don’t know how the average wageslave drives to work). Then they spoof the car “Ram X”. Problem solved. Even low speed collisions are fairly dangerous, and it is worse if the motorcycles are moving at high speed.

I’d suggest spoofing because this seems like a simple order for the car, and it makes the question of slaving moot.

[Traul]

You can also block the road instead of trying to ram the bikes. The good point is a single truck would do.

[suoq]

Thoughts. Much of them not RAW.

You need to decide if the pilot is slaved to Grid Guide or if Grid Guide is a data feed to the pilot software.

If the pilot is slaved then hacking grid guide means you own all the cars on grid guide. Personally, I don't recommend this because it makes grid guide the ultimate target. Even spoofing grid guide is incredibly powerful. For the players that either means spoof every round they want to attempt to drive a vehicle or hack the grid guide on the fly, login, and order any car around while defending themselves from whatever defends the grid guide.

If the pilot uses grid guide as a feed, then taking over the actual vehicle and driving it is your best bet. There is no parent niode to spoof. On the plus side to this, the car is most likely an active node, so there is no need to do a detect hidden action. All you should need to do is Hacking-On-The-Fly, Log-In, and then attempt to drive the car, defending yourself against whatever IC capabilities the GM gives the pilot program.

In both cases, turns and IP work against the hacker. You're still stuck with messing with a single car at a time for a limited amount of time. Having the hacker take out multiple bikes is going to take time AND attract attention. Having the hacker take out a single bike is very doable.

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Alternative plan (this works with both interpretations, though it is better with the slave option): Hack the grid guide for admin (complete with difficulties), have the driver subscribe you car to the grid guide, have the hacker tell the grid guide you're a firetruck. Then start telling it all the cars between you and the bikers are police vehicles. Every round you can continue to be the firetruck (not get kicked out) and get another cop car playing intercept on the bikers increases you chance of getting out of there.

Note that the big difference here is that you are NOT attempting to control the actions of the cars. You're letting the grid guide control the actions of the cars (something it can do better than you) based on bad information (thinking they're cop cars). This basically means putting the outcome in the hands of the GM in the hopes of a better result.

[HunterHerne]

Spoofing does seem to be the best bet. However, you'll want to spoof twice, once so that Grid Guide won't override a possible collision, and once to tell the pilot to move the car into the path of the bikes. Then it's just a crash test for the rider(s).

[suoq]

Spoofing does seem to be the best bet. However, you'll want to spoof twice, once so that Grid Guide won't override a possible collision, and once to tell the pilot to move the car into the path of the bikes. Then it's just a crash test for the rider(s).

You lost me on that one. Was that:

1. two spoofs in one IP
2. a spoof to tell the car to ignore the grid guide followed by a spoof (from whom?) to tell the car to move.
3. a spoof to tell the car what to do followed by a spoof to tell the car.. what exactly?

I don't understand how to translate what you've said into Spoof actions and IPs.

[sabs]

The default Pilot program has "Do not ever collide into other vehicles" as part of it's restrictions.
The best bet really would be to spoof gridguide into thinking you're a firetruck, or knight errand police vehicle, and go from there. It also depends what City you are in. If this is NeoTokyo, then it's going to be rediculously easy to spoof a traffic jam, and force other vehicles off the road, because everyone around you is following gridguide blindly. If it's somewhere less modern, some people won't be using grid guide at all.

What I would do, is a spoof to gridguide that you have to spend 1 ip a combat turn re-doing to let the system think you're a Special Vehicle™ so you can get other cars out of your way. To block the Bikes, the best bet is probably to spoof a car infront of them into thinking it's swerving to avoid something more important to avoid.

Pilot 2 is an idiot, it follows basic instructions. If it's given a choice between, "hit child, but avoid driver behind you, or avoid child, hit driver behind you" it'll pick avoid child.

So find a car up front of the Bike, spoof it into swerving.

[HunterHerne]

You lost me on that one. Was that:

1. two spoofs in one IP
2. a spoof to tell the car to ignore the grid guide followed by a spoof (from whom?) to tell the car to move.
3. a spoof to tell the car what to do followed by a spoof to tell the car.. what exactly?

I don't understand how to translate what you've said into Spoof actions and IPs.

First, spoof Grid Guide to ignore the car you are targetting.
Second, spoof the car pilot to move the car.

In one IP you've commanded a car to move, regardless of grid guide's involvement. The other postersa seemed to be concentrating too hard on getting passed grid guide on a permanent basis, and then affecting the cars, but that isn't necessary. You shouldn't need to move more then a few cars anyway.

[LurkerOutThere]

What makes you think pilot 2 cares about avoid child? Especially with a sensor of 2. If given a choice between hitting a smaller object and a larger one presumably the pilot program will pick the smaller every time.

The thing is you can't just spoof "I'm a firetruck" you need an access ID of a firetruck to spoof as. That's what people keep overlooking.

[sabs]

Wait your rigger doesn't keep a list of useable accessID's for just such an emergency?

[HunterHerne]

What makes you think pilot 2 cares about avoid child? Especially with a sensor of 2. If given a choice between hitting a smaller object and a larger one presumably the pilot program will pick the smaller every time.

The thing is you can't just spoof "I'm a firetruck" you need an access ID of a firetruck to spoof as. That's what people keep overlooking.

That, and, the OP is looking for away that doesn't get them caught on camera or suspects of the event. If the PC's spoof themselves to be a firetruck, everyone moves, and the cameras look at them. Later, they get a nice visit from Lonestar.

If the bikes are moving through the jam at any appreciable speed, moving one or two cars will slow them down enough for someone else to call an emergency number. When the bikers get up and start pulling out weapons, that emergency number gets Lonestar Stratto-9s looking at them.

[Socinus]

Hacking? Why not just whip out a good ol' fashioned box of ball bearings?

I remember a run a while back when I had a character that was a pilot but still knew his way around a vehicle.

The goal was to create a distraction for private security forces while the rest of the team effected entry to a building.

Our hacker had to be on the entry team so it was up to me to create the distraction. With exactly forty seconds of thought, my character spent the night with a miniwelder scooping anything out of the car that didnt absolutely have to be there (Airbags? Who needs 'em?). Come go time, he rolls up next to a security bot and smashes it in the head with a wrench then petal to the metal. He led virtually all of the reserve private security officers and about half the cops in the city on an hour long chase that involved about a million or so nuyen worth of private property damaged and destroyed.

My GM sicced a pack of monowheeled security drones on the car so my character busted out a box of ball bearings (Yes, I had a box of ball bearings) and let 'em fly. Of the ~22 drones on the road, 15 failed to stay upright. It didnt destroy any of them, but it sure as shit slowed them down.


As a side note, that's one issue I've noticed with Shadowrun; it seems to encourage it's players tend to chronically over-think situations. People bring a two-ton tool chest to open a locked door when all you need is a fuckin' hammer.

[sabs]

Another option, just hack the pilot to open the doors up. That should be fairly doable.. the bikes are after all speeding between cars, if suddenly a door opens up in front of them.. ouch.

[suoq]

The default Pilot program has "Do not ever collide into other vehicles" as part of it's restrictions.

The thing is you can't just spoof "I'm a firetruck" you need an access ID of a firetruck to spoof as. That's what people keep overlooking.

I can never tell if comments like this are opinions, house rules, or RAW. Personally, if there isn't a page number, I'm starting to ignore them for purposes of this forum though I may note them as house rules or potential house rules.

Note, that when I suggested the "I'm a firetruck" I wasn't spoofing, I was editing. I may not have made that clear. In such a case, I don't believe I need the access ID of a firetruck. I just need the access ID of my vehicle. Again, this is all on how the GM thinks grid guide actually works. If it's actually documented HOW it works, I missed it.

What I would do, is a spoof to gridguide that you have to spend 1 ip a combat turn re-doing to let the system think you're a Special Vehicle™ so you can get other cars out of your way.

SR4A 232

You send a command to a device or agent, pretending it is from an authorized source. You must have an access ID from which the target accepts commands (usually by making a Matrix Perception test on the authorized source or by tracing its icon).

I have no clue what access ID gridguide accepts such commands from or even such an id exists.

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I feel like I'm a blind man having an argument about elephants with other blind men. It would be nice if Grid Guide and how it worked was more than fluff and someone would point me to it.

[Mardrax]

How's about hacking GridGuide to ignore you, and call Lonestar on them? ;p

[HunterHerne]

Another option, just hack the pilot to open the doors up. That should be fairly doable.. the bikes are after all speeding between cars, if suddenly a door opens up in front of them.. ouch.

Still not really hacking, unless you need access to make them open. A spoof should be able to do that just as easily, and shouldn't be interfered with by grid guide. Hmmm.

[sabs]

The existence of the Restrictions Program Option in unwired, combined with how they talk about how gridguide works strongly implies it. The most detailed information on gridguide is going to be from the supplement that has Neo-Tokyo in it.. I forget the name of it.

[LurkerOutThere]

Still not really hacking, unless you need access to make them open. A spoof should be able to do that just as easily, and shouldn't be interfered with by grid guide. Hmmm.

Seriously read the section on spoof, it isn't the magical non hacking do anything action you think it is. Here i'll make it easy

Spoof Command (Spoof )
You send a command to a device or agent, pretending it is from an
authorized source. You must have an access ID from which the target
accepts commands (usually by making a Matrix Perception test on the
authorized source or by tracing its icon). To spoof a target, choose
a command (per the Issue Command action, p. 229) and make an
Opposed Test between your Hacking + Spoof and the target’s Pilot
+ Firewall (System + Firewall for peripheral devices); if you succeed,
the target accepts the command as legitimate. Each Spoof Command
action applies only to a single command; multiple commands require
multiple Spoof Command attempts.

[Mardrax]

Seriously read the section on spoof, it isn't the magical non hacking do anything action you think it is. Here i'll make it easy

Getting an Access ID from GridGuide isn't that hard: Analyse your local node. I find it hard to believe GG would be able to open doors though. It's a traffic management system, not a chauffeur.

The Pilot might accept the command from the owner's comlink though, which will likely be in the car, with an active connection. Acquiring an Access ID there should be as trivial as going Analyse on it as well.

[suoq]

Seriously read the section on spoof, it isn't the magical non hacking do anything action you think it is. Here i'll make it easy

You may need to edit your sig to read
"If the GM doesn't understand the matrix system it gets less powerful, except for spoofing. If your GM doesn't understand that, it's as good as magic"

[HunterHerne]

Alright, yeah, Spoofing isn't all powerful. I know it's not, but simple commands such as those are better through spoofing then hacking past the firewall with Exploit to set up.

I digress on the test, as well. And admit I'm not the most knowledgable about the cyberspace side of Shadowrun. It completely skipped my mind that the hacking skill was used with spoofing action, which makes my previous statement completely false. I'm sorry for my mistaken judgement.

[Falanin]

I tend to be a bit hard on my players trying to hack GridGuide. Of all the targets a player is likely to hack, GridGuide is probably the one that serves the most customers at once, and simultaneously is also one of the ones that gets the WORST PR when something fucks up. Combine this with the fact that it's a matrix-based service (and the fact that EVERYONE is going to want to hack themselves out of traffic at some point) and you get a numerous, well-trained staff of matrix security specialists just waiting to fuck up your hacker's day. Seriously, hacking GridGuide should be on the same plateau of "difficult, but awesome" as hacking KE or Lone Star.