Share your Heavy Response Teams, ...when boot meets head, who are you dancing with? Options

[MikeKozar]

I'm working on a write-up of my defense-in-depth security template, and I'm looking at my Heavy Responders. This is a tricky slot to write-up in advance, since the whole idea of a HRT is to put the fear of corporate wrath into the PCs; A Heavy Response Team needs to represent unquestionably overwhelming force. At the same time, I'd like to inject some of the corporate personality that Shadowrunners are rebelling against, in the sense that these guys are cookie-cutter cannon fodder, not as special or as tricked-out as the PCs.

My current write-up has them with a bodyware/gear budget of about 100k each, for a team of 12-18. They wind up with full military combat armor with a gas seal, a ballistic shield, an Ares Alpha with Smoke, Flashbang, and CS grenades. Wired Reflexes 1, Reaction Enhancers 3, Muscle replacement 1 and aluminum bone lacing. I like this write-up because it feels like a serious threat, while being individually less impressive then the PCs. With all the soak dice, these guys won't die quickly, and generous use of grenades, supressive fire, and aimed bursts give them a good chance at taking down a PC. Equip a few of them with Panther XXLs, and we have a serious match.

Anyway, that's what I'm kicking around. Not invincible, but effective, if I'm judging it right. I'm curious what you guys use for your ultimate corp team, short of Prime Runners. What do you generally equip your HRTs with?

[Dakka Dakka]

I don't know your PCs but this team looks like TPK if played tactically sound, especially if your PCs (4 I assume) are confronted all 12-18 of them. Contrary to D&D rising numbers of opponents do not give diminishing returns, quite the opposite actually.

What's wrong with the SpecOps teams form the BBB? Red Samurai and or Tir Ghosts should do alright. You may want to outfit them with some gear form other books though (MilSpec armor, TacNet etc.)

If at all possible, to "put the fear of corporate wrath into the PCs", add a mage/Spirit with counterspelling to the team. Otherwise it might be a pretty onesided encounter.

I don't think they would need more ware, just give them decent to good skills and use them. Infiltration for ambushes (Surprise!) makes even below average shooters very dangerous, especially when there are lots of them. Perception will save their lives, if the PCs try to ambush them. They should also be good in athletics. That way they will probably not tire before the PCs in a chase. A hacker may also be a good idea depending on how secure your PCs networks are.
"Damn my clip just ejected"
"Mine too, and where is my map and FFID?"
"Oh crap!" *sees flashbang rolling in.*

[Smokeskin]

If your PCs guns and armor make milspec armor and assault cannons necessary, then go with it - I'd go with less, but then I don't like heavy hardware campaigns.

I agree with the power level of the HRT team, but go with fewer but very savvy guys that employ dirty tricks. Spirit support, invisible point men, ambush teams that are concealed, nausea gas, thermal smoke and ultrasound vision, radar sensor sniping through walls.

Imo the ideal encounter with an HRT goes like this: They blindside the runners, runners beat the assault off but are hurt, pinned down and in lots of trouble, but eventually catch a small break and manage to make a dramatic escape before reinforcements close in. Sort of like than scene in Leon.

[LurkerOutThere]

What's wrong with the SpecOps teams form the BBB? Red Samurai and or Tir Ghosts should do alright. You may want to outfit them with some gear form other books though (MilSpec armor, TacNet etc.)

You mean other then the fact they are a big joke? Seriously the best of the best with more or less limitless government budgets and training have trouble challenging the hacker's some of my players build let alone the street sam. Personally I don't have a problem with TPK if the players take on a high end response force head on or stick it out for a protracted fire fight with milspec armed opposition. The red samurai and tir ghosts to me look about where I'd expect sixth world SWAT to be, not those premier and legendary organizations.

[PoliteMan]

What corp are you developing this for? Ares should have a different HRT from MCT, which should be different from Shiawise or SK.

Part of this is if you want them to be uniquely threatening but uniform, you need a common theme tying them together. When 6 identical HRT guys burst with medium Machine Guns and military armor, yous should know it's Ares, whereas MCT sends in two Cyborgs. That's what makes the Red Samurai so great, they can be very uniform because of their distinctive appearance and it's easy to tie them into a fighting style, for example, they might easily be the best close combatants out of all the corp HRT teams because of the focus on bushido.

[Omenowl]

I found the Tir ghosts and special forces teams to have stats simply too high. Seems like these guys were more like 20 year veteran team leaders rather than guys with 10 years of experience.

Anyway, I would go with 3 helicopters each carrying 6 to 8 troops (a team). 2 teams and 1 veteran team. This will help prevent a single missile from taking out the entire HRT. The HRT maybe contracted out with only a few teams available in the entire city. This could give players a chance to do a diversionary run to tie up the HRT, while they do the real run somewhere else.

Basic teams: The basic ware would be similar to the lonestar cybersuite for two teams. Each team would have a mage primarily for counterspelling and banishing and a watcher spirit. Magic probably 3 with spellcasting/banishing of 3+ speciality for counterspelling. Stats would be in the 3 to 4 range with the odd 5 stat to represent a singularized specialty. Each would have SWAT armor equipped with mobility or strength additions and chemical seal. Helmets would contain flare compensation, radio, thermal and low light options. At least one member would have an assault rifle with grenade launcher (equipped with gas grenades). 1 would have a ballastic shield, 1 with an automatic shotgun and underbarrel netgun, the rest would be equipped with SMGs. Each weapon would be equipped with a dual selector for ammo. Stickn N Shock would be one clip and the second clip would be APDS. Goal is to capture the runners first, with the lethal option only if a member goes down. Remember the team may not know who is friend or foe and they don't want to kill their own employees.

The veteran team would be your basic archetypes. Street Samurai, Hacker, Combat Mage, and Drone rigger. Include a specialty type such as a sniper, a summoner/banisher, and/or utility mage. Final is your leader. Assume tacnets are being used and controlled.

Assume initial response is offsite mage sending in spirits and an offsite spider sending in drones to contain the shadowrunners. The idea is to keep the players pinned down until the HRT arrives. The HRT will take 20-30 minutes to arrive. They need to get the alert, suited up and arrive onsite. Once the HRT is onsite they will try to give the characters an escape route to get them out of the facility.

[Faelan]

I rarely have a problem making the presented NPC Templates matter. Heavy Response Teams are going into a facility or location after the shit has hit the fan. The individual load out and skill of each member while important on a basic level is ultimately not where they make their pay. Their mission is to recover any lost data, material, or personnel, while eliminating or capturing the individuals responsible for the breach in security. They will not fly in guns blazing unless they are 1) 100% percent sure there is no surface to air, air to air, or credible magic threat, or 2) they are retarded and want a flashy way to commit suicide. If they are flying in they will secure the perimeter, cover avenues of approach and escape, with fire, personnel, or mechanical assets. This includes air, ground, water, and underground routes. They will do so as quietly as possible, and utilize any video feeds to prioritize targets. Your runner team has to leave the facility at some point, and when it does the highest threat individual is taking a .50 caliber Raufoss round to the grape. They are not going to rush in and become fodder they are going to wait and ambush your team, and any equipment upgrades would be solely for the purpose of avoiding detection up to and including spirits with concealment. In my games if the team has stuck around long enough for a Heavy Response Team to arrive they are probably looking at a near TPK, unless they have pulled out all the heavy shit, have a big enough team to cover the approaches while they screw around and eat up time, or go completely over the top with prepared explosives, but in general they are screwed.

[PoliteMan]

Faelan:
You've never had a demolitions PC in a game before, have you?

I think what you've recommended is very sensible but it sounds like something out of a SWAT manual. I don't think that would work against shadowrunners for a couple reasons:
#1 There is no reason to surrender. You can negotiate with modern criminals and they'll generally surrender because jail beats death. Shadowrunners have no legal rights, especially on corporate turf. The odds of them surrendering is low, which causes additional problems because...
#2 They're very well armed. Even excusing the inevitable demolitions enthusiast, your average shadowrunner probably has enough firepower and cunning to cause millions of nuyen in "distractions" before you finally gun them down, which is bad because....
#3 They're probably in a very important area, surrounded by valuable and fragile equipment/people.

Besides, efficiency isn't very dramatic.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Faelan:
You've never had a demolitions PC in a game before, have you?

I think what you've recommended is very sensible but it sounds like something out of a SWAT manual. I don't think that would work against shadowrunners for a couple reasons:
#1 There is no reason to surrender. You can negotiate with modern criminals and they'll generally surrender because jail beats death. Shadowrunners have no legal rights, especially on corporate turf. The odds of them surrendering is low, which causes additional problems because...
#2 They're very well armed. Even excusing the inevitable demolitions enthusiast, your average shadowrunner probably has enough firepower and cunning to cause millions of nuyen in "distractions" before you finally gun them down, which is bad because....
#3 They're probably in a very important area, surrounded by valuable and fragile equipment/people.

Besides, efficiency isn't very dramatic.

Ummmmm... Surrender is always a better option than Death. Just Sayin'. Besides, you tend to get some great stories resulting from a Capture over a Death. With Death, your Story ends. With a Capture, it may only just be beginning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[PoliteMan]

Except if the corp captures you, they can do things worse than death to you, overwrite your memories, torture, experimentation. Surrendering only makes sense if you expect some kind of baseline decency out of your captors: a la Geneva Convention or criminal law. Yes, fighting your way out might be a longshot, but the odds on surrendering are probably even worse unless you have someway to assure they won't just shoot you once you drop your gun.

And yes, you can get some great stories out of surrenders. I don't think that would be the norm in SR and based on the TPK comments here, I don't think it's the norm at a lot of tables.

[suoq]

I'm a little host on how to build a standard HRT for a game with starting characters ranging from the rulebook Street Sam to a dumpshock Street Sam. Unless I know what dice pools your team is throwing (and then everyone starts arguing about that) I can't tell if you're under or overpowered.

From a player point of view, HRT teams don't scare me. They make a lot of noise and my job is to be gone BEFORE they get there. If I'm fighting a HRT, I'm either the distraction or I've messed up so badly I deserve to go back to chargen. From a certain perspective, HRT are an asset to the shadowrunners. If I can get a HRT team to kill my target or simply completely destroy any forensic evidence then so much the better. And the more heavily armored they are, the easier it may be to look like one and not be detected by any onlookers once HRT is on the scene. (Half the team shoots the joint up, HRT gets called, the other half infiltrates as HRT in the smoke and confusion, using as many Stonebrooke Smokeclouds as necessary.)

The main problem with a HRT is that they're designed to assault a defended position and I don't see it as my job to defend any position. I see it as my job to recon, plan, execute quickly, and disappear. My hero is D. B. Cooper, not Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

[HunterHerne]

I'm a little host on how to build a standard HRT for a game with starting characters ranging from the rulebook Street Sam to a dumpshock Street Sam. Unless I know what dice pools your team is throwing (and then everyone starts arguing about that) I can't tell if you're under or overpowered.

From a player point of view, HRT teams don't scare me. They make a lot of noise and my job is to be gone BEFORE they get there. If I'm fighting a HRT, I'm either the distraction or I've messed up so badly I deserve to go back to chargen. From a certain perspective, HRT are an asset to the shadowrunners. If I can get a HRT team to kill my target or simply completely destroy any forensic evidence then so much the better. And the more heavily armored they are, the easier it may be to look like one and not be detected by any onlookers once HRT is on the scene. (Half the team shoots the joint up, HRT gets called, the other half infiltrates as HRT in the smoke and confusion, using as many Stonebrooke Smokeclouds as necessary.)

The main problem with a HRT is that they're designed to assault a defended position and I don't see it as my job to defend any position. I see it as my job to recon, plan, execute quickly, and disappear. My hero is D. B. Cooper, not Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

I have to agree with you here. The HRT can be as tough as they come, but the players should be given enough time to escape before they show up, even if he uses other means to slow the team down (Drones, spirits, run of the mill security, even a security door or twenty). Regardless, there should be two versions of the HRT, in my opinion. The team that assaults, making themselves known and fortifying a position to block most (if not all) possible exits, and a smaller Tactical Response Team, whose job it is to go in and find the intruders, capturing or killing them as necessary.

[Dakka Dakka]

Ummmmm... Surrender is always a better option than Death. Just Sayin'. Besides, you tend to get some great stories resulting from a Capture over a Death. With Death, your Story ends. With a Capture, it may only just be beginning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The problem is, in SR violent confrontations are usually over very quickly - for either side. So any demands for surrender will most likely be met by the PCs either trying to get away or starting to reduce the opposition. The more likely outcome is,if the HTR is successful, that the PCs will be either unconscious or dead. In the former case the GM can freely decide if it is capture or death.

@ HunterHerne: I agree on (at least) two types of teams, but those will rarely operate separately.

[Faelan]

Faelan:
You've never had a demolitions PC in a game before, have you?

I think what you've recommended is very sensible but it sounds like something out of a SWAT manual. I don't think that would work against shadowrunners for a couple reasons:
#1 There is no reason to surrender. You can negotiate with modern criminals and they'll generally surrender because jail beats death. Shadowrunners have no legal rights, especially on corporate turf. The odds of them surrendering is low, which causes additional problems because...
#2 They're very well armed. Even excusing the inevitable demolitions enthusiast, your average shadowrunner probably has enough firepower and cunning to cause millions of nuyen in "distractions" before you finally gun them down, which is bad because....
#3 They're probably in a very important area, surrounded by valuable and fragile equipment/people.

Besides, efficiency isn't very dramatic.

Wrong. I have had demo experts, problem is I have done plenty of demo IRL, so I kind of know what it takes. Most teams can't afford principally the time to set shit up correctly so they have to waste explosives, which are never cheap, and well are not universally accessible.

Not a SWAT manual, basic CQB for which I was among other subjects an instructor. There is no reason sound tactics would not work against runners.
1. Capture was the last option, if you did not notice, and likely after incapacitation, not negotiation.
2. So is the HRT and they have a lot more back up, have probably practiced at the facility prior to the runners attempt to steal shit, and don't have to hack systems to be left alone.
3. Not after they leave it or did you not read the post. I would not hit them in the facility, they have to leave, they are getting ambushed, and I have no problem giving an HRT team whatever they need to remain undetected. Hell they might even be followed to scoop up additional intel. Top priority after being compromised is making sure no one does it again and making examples always helps.

Your demo guy just so you understand the reality of demolitions has to have time, access, and equipment. Wireless anything in a high security facility is non existent, assume it is completely jammed, and will require good old fashioned real wires, detonators, blasting caps, detcord, or even blackpowder with pull timers. This all assumes once again time and access, both of which are tight on a run. Blowing additional holes are easily accounted for by the HRT reserve which is left in the air. Once again if HRT shows up you are screwed, and if you are not the GM is simply not running them as a threat.

[suoq]

Wireless anything in a high security facility is non existent, assume it is completely jammed, and will require good old fashioned real wires, detonators, blasting caps, detcord, or even blackpowder with pull timers

Assuming normal radio frequenciesare completely jammed that leaves, at a minimum, visual spectrum. So get any device that measures the amount of light. Trigger it with a laser. Point it as some FAB and trigger it with magic. Put a smartlink on it and copy an agent onto the smartlink. (Add autosofts as the GM requires.) Use a microtapper bug as the trigger and use the building's wires to communicate with the microtapper.

Note that if the wireless is completely jammed, the HRT has no standard communication/tacnet. It may well be that the team wants the HRT to come on site to force the area to drop the jamming on HRT frequencies, allowing the detonation to take place wirelessly on those frequencies.

Out of curiosity, how many out-of-the-box solutions do you want to deal with your in-the-box HRT team?

[Faelan]

Assuming normal radio frequenciesare completely jammed that leaves, at a minimum, visual spectrum. So get any device that measures the amount of light. Trigger it with a laser.

Requires line of sight. Who is going to control sight lines? Not your runners.

Point it as some FAB and trigger it with magic.

Once again line of sight. Is your tiny team really going to be spread out enough to cover all these.

Put a smartlink on it and copy an agent onto the smartlink. (Add autosofts as the GM requires.)

Since communicating with the agent is out what determines when he blows?

Use a microtapper bug as the trigger and use the building's wires to communicate with the microtapper.

Assuming you have control of all interior systems and assuming the wires are not cut.

Note that if the wireless is completely jammed, the HRT has no standard communication/tacnet. It may well be that the team wants the HRT to come on site to force the area to drop the jamming on HRT frequencies, allowing the detonation to take place wirelessly on those frequencies.

Except an HRT won't need comm. Comm is nice but real operators don't require it.

Out of curiosity, how many out-of-the-box solutions do you want to deal with your in-the-box HRT team?

What do you think tactics are? They are not some cookie cutter method. Sure if you suck, you might have a checklist you work down covering contingencies, and it ends there. High Threat Response Teams are essentially the Megacorporate answer to Spec Ops. Where do you think a lot of runners come from? They sure as hell don't grow on trees.

My point about all of this is that they are nearly as good as you on a one for one basis with the skills that matter. They outnumber you at least 10-1. They have air superiority. They have all the assets they need, and you don't. They train without comm, they train at the facility you are hitting, they play through tons of different scenarios where your runners are planning to play. They have every advantage. To suggest they have to be in the box idiots who are doomed to be cannon fodder is frankly garbage. Your runners only advantage is surprise. Get in and get out as quickly as you can, and if you don't, if you wait for the big guns to arrive, expect a near party kill at best.

[suoq]

I only need line of site to devices that have their own line of site to other devices. There is no reason, given the devices in this game that laser sighting can't be used to sync all the timers.

Since communicating with the agent is out what determines when he blows?

He's an agent. He blows when he's programed to blow, be that a detectable event or a timer. He can be programmed based on our recon.

Assuming you have control of all interior systems and assuming the wires are not cut.

I don't need control. I need access. And if they're cutting their interior wires as part of their defense plan, then we can use that to monitor them. If wires are cut, we're blown and need to move.

Except an HRT won't need comm. Comm is nice but real operators don't require it.

Good. The HRT is crippling their communication. That's knowledge we can use to our advantage.

They have every advantage.

No. They have major disadvantages. We are attacking them with our plan based on our knowledge about them. It is our JOB to know who they are, what they do, and how they have been trained to defend the facility and to use that knowledge to OUR advantage. It is our JOB to exploit their training and practices. It's not our job to stand our ground against them, but that's what kind of opponents HRT, by their very name, are designed to fight against. We are not there to play their game and that's their disadvantage.

If we were there to take hostages until our demands were met, yes, we would be dead meat. If if your runner team is taking that job where a HRT operates, then yes, they deserve to die. If your demolition teams sits and slugs it out with HRT then, in my opinion, you should feel free to kill them.

[Ascalaphus]

Surrender is different depending on who you're dealing with. In an MCT Zero-Zone, there's this nifty No Survivors policy. Those HTR teams probably gas the area with Ringu.

On the other side of the spectrum, Horizon would probably flood the radio spectrum with AR summaries of their extremely reasonable terms of surrender; "If you'll just put down your weapons and not hurt anyone or damage anything, we can find some middle ground that lets everyone live happily ever after..."

MCT is kind of rabid about security; they'd rather lose money on a damaged facility, than let anyone get away. That's a daring business decision, but the result is that very few people dare to attack a Zero-Zone.
Horizon on the other hand has a vested interest (their oh-so-precious reputation) in making sure no employees end up traumatized. They'd employ suave hostage negotiators, and a dash of mind control if your consumer profile indicates they can get away with it. All to limit damages.

Many corporations will be somewhere in the middle; the HTR leader might decide that letting the runners leave the compound would be a tactically better choice, because that gives less chance of collateral damage. But in all cases, it should feel like a sort of cat and mouse game; the HTR team controls all the exits, and is trying to nudge the runners into a killing ground of the HTR's choosing.

The HTR wouldn't assault the runner's location; just close off all the exits, and let the runners come to the HTR's (by then fortified) position, where the terrain will be totally against the runners.



Compare it to a SWAT team in a hostage situation: they surround the hostage-takers, try to find a good angle to shoot, but they don't engage until they're certain they'll win. Unless the runners start shooting hostages/seriously damaging the location; at that point it's a matter of salvaging, rather than preventing damage.

[Faelan]

I only need line of site to devices that have their own line of site to other devices. There is no reason, given the devices in this game that laser sighting can't be used to sync all the timers.

Once again assuming you have had time, assuming you had all of that figured in your combat load out, and assuming unexpected events have not disrupted your line of sight.

He's an agent. He blows when he's programed to blow, be that a detectable event or a timer. He can be programmed based on our recon.

Only good if you definitely want to blow something up.

I don't need control. I need access. And if they're cutting their interior wires as part of their defense plan, then we can use that to monitor them. If wires are cut, we're blown and need to move.

Assuming the system you hacked into is the actual security system. When someone takes over the security of a facility IRL there are often no records of changes. Your comments are based on you knowing everything and them being unprepared.

Good. The HRT is crippling their communication. That's knowledge we can use to our advantage.

Not really you as a runner are more reliant on comm, by killing comm they likely deprive you easy command and control of your drones, they force a small team to become individuals with no support and allow their numbers to speak for itself. You lose the only force multiplier left to you.

No. They have major disadvantages. We are attacking them with our plan based on our knowledge about them. It is our JOB to know who they are, what they do, and how they have been trained to defend the facility and to use that knowledge to OUR advantage. It is our JOB to exploit their training and practices. It's not our job to stand our ground against them, but that's what kind of opponents HRT, by their very name, are designed to fight against. We are not there to play their game and that's their disadvantage.

You are assuming you know everything about them, where as in the real world that is a very rare occurrence, and in the game as a GM I would make it exceedingly difficult to obtain all that information. As to you not standing your ground, what did I say in my last post...that's right your best bet is to not be there when they get there, if you are, you are likely screwed.

If we were there to take hostages until our demands were met, yes, we would be dead meat. If if your runner team is taking that job where a HRT operates, then yes, they deserve to die. If your demolition teams sits and slugs it out with HRT then, in my opinion, you should feel free to kill them.

Once again if you are there when they get there you are likely dead. If you stick around you deserve what you get. If you took a job asking you to go toe to toe with HRT then you are likely suicidal. My point has always been that 1) you can't really expect to win a direct confrontation, 2) you can only expect to slow them down and buy time to escape, likely at the cost of someone dying, 3) you can always expect things to go wrong, 4) you should always assume they know as much about you as you know about them, and 5) assuming it is a one way information street is a conceit you will only get in a game. Your mileage obviously varies, I can't help but inject some of my real world knowledge and experience into the game. The run that never gets detected never happens. You will get detected the question is when. On a good run you have gotten what you wanted, and are already in the process of vacating the premises. On a bad run they were expecting you. If you don't get detected then security was garbage, or you pulled a perfect con.

[suoq]

I'm going to try to explain this in a simpler way, in order to try and avoid the pissiness this forum seems to be the egg sac for.

HRT is designed, by the very nature of it's mission, to be applied against OVERT operations.
Shadowrun teams should be, by the nature of their missions, performing COVERT operations.

As such, HRT teams are not the enemies of a Shadowrun team. They are more suited to be the TOOL of a Shadowrun team than the oppressor against the Shadowrun team.

And yes. I am ASSUMING the Shadowrun team knows what they're doing because knowing what they're doing is their job. If they don't know what they're doing, then yes, they're going to die, because they're not doing their job. If the people at your table are the idiots you seem to be saying they are, then yes, the HRT should be capable of killing them.

[Miri]

Not really you as a runner are more reliant on comm, by killing comm they likely deprive you easy command and control of your drones, they force a small team to become individuals with no support and allow their numbers to speak for itself. You lose the only force multiplier left to you.

Good ECCM programs.

[Faelan]

I'm going to try to explain this in a simpler way, in order to try and avoid the pissiness this forum seems to be the egg sac for.

I know what you mean (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

HRT is designed, by the very nature of it's mission, to be applied against OVERT operations.
Shadowrun teams should be, by the nature of their missions, performing COVERT operations.

Yes, and one your Shadowrun team has been detected and HRT is called in your cover is blown.

As such, HRT teams are not the enemies of a Shadowrun team. They are more suited to be the TOOL of a Shadowrun team than the oppressor against the Shadowrun team.

If you are the one calling them in to lock down a facility right after you have slipped away for instance, sure.

And yes. I am ASSUMING the Shadowrun team knows what they're doing because knowing what they're doing is their job. If they don't know what they're doing, then yes, they're going to die, because they're not doing their job.

...and I am ASSUMING the HRT team knows what they're doing because knowing is their job. If they don't know what they're doing, they get killed by a bunch of annoying Shadowrunners, see how that works. Tactical decision games are what you do to prepare for combat. WHen a facility is part of your job you will run hundreds of TDG's involving the facility and different scenarios. The facility is one of your primary duties. For runners it is just another facility, and you get one shot to do it right. If the HRT team is not running through all these TDG's then your runners deserve to school them. The runners need to remain COVERT and once they become OVERT they need to disappear as quickly as possible before they become DEAD.

[Faelan]

Good ECCM programs.

Because all runners have milspec programs, and the security for the corp that makes it does not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Blitz66]

Faelan, you have a number of well-reasoned arguments as to why HRT forces would completely pwn the face off any group of runners that got caught in a run. Well done.

I don't think I'd ever play a combat-oriented character in a game you were running. If such a character has to do his job, he's already dead, apparently. Just hasn't yet gotten the memo.

[Miri]

Because all runners have milspec programs, and the security for the corp that makes it does not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Getting hold of a rank 5 or 6 ECCM program isn't THAT hard. It is considered a Hacking Program and thus costs Rating x 1000 and availability (Rating x2)R