Getting the most out of Negotiation, What am I missing? Options

[whatevs]

Looking for some guidance regarding negotiation. When i'm negotiating with mr johnson, i'm pretty much just rolling my 12 dice and seeing what happens in the opposed test (i add a bit of flavor with rp as well). Is there something i'm missing / not taking advantage of?

[Malbur]

When negotiating, the skill should come second to actual RP 'flavor.' True you should make opposing rolls, but the GM should not be using that for everything. In my experience, you gotta act as the person, and the opposed roll represents the NPC's knowledge, expectations, and limits (how much he'll give you). Say what your character is saying, then the roll comes to determine if what you (your character) said is enough to get him to give you that extra bit more/change his mind/etc.

My humble opinion of course!

[KarmaInferno]

I as a GM have been known to modify the test based on the player actions.

They might get bonus dice/reduced threshold for awesome roleplay or preparation, or DP/threshold penalties for either actions inappropriate to the situation or just sitting there like a lump only rolling dice.

That said, only 12 dice? A rude obnoxious smelly street sam dressed in a fashion nightmare can get 12 dice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




-k

[Udoshi]

Looking for some guidance regarding negotiation. When i'm negotiating with mr johnson, i'm pretty much just rolling my 12 dice and seeing what happens in the opposed test (i add a bit of flavor with rp as well). Is there something i'm missing / not taking advantage of?

Social Modifiers Table.

A good faces does prepwork, research, plays their role, and scapes for every card they can to stack the deck - just like any other runner.

[Malbur]

That said, only 12 dice? A rude obnoxious smelly street sam dressed in a fashion nightmare can get 12 dice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Man you just made me feel awful about the character I made... I have a sniper who has an 11 dice pool with weapon of choice... I didn't do a good job (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Hehe. God forbid you don't have game-breaking DPs.

[kzt]

Man you just made me feel awful about the character I made... I have a sniper who has an 11 dice pool with weapon of choice... I didn't do a good job (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

If you have 11 dice including the smartlink, then yeah, not so good unless you have a reduced number of points.

[Critias]

Man you just made me feel awful about the character I made... I have a sniper who has an 11 dice pool with weapon of choice... I didn't do a good job (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

If your die pool works at your table, your die pool works at your table. Ignore Dumpshock. Worry about your game. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Udoshi]

If your die pool works at your table, your die pool works at your table. Ignore Dumpshock. Worry about your game. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So much this.

My personal level of Competence is in the 9-12 dice range. Basically at the range where you start to move out of glitching all the time(5 dice) towards being good(7 or so), towards being able to succeed reliably - and a dice or two more as a buffer zone against negative modifiers. 14 dice + is where you start to be REALLY good.

... or its an area where its really easy to rack up a bunch of dice, like pornomancy.

[LurkerOutThere]

Looking for some guidance regarding negotiation. When i'm negotiating with mr johnson, i'm pretty much just rolling my 12 dice and seeing what happens in the opposed test (i add a bit of flavor with rp as well). Is there something i'm missing / not taking advantage of?

Ok are you looking for how to expand your actual die pool or how to get more out of the die pool you have. On the former I'm sure others can twink things out far better then I can, emotion softs are a good go to without introducing the cheese that is emotoys. Also don't forget you get a bonus from your street cred if their aware of your rep. THe other thing a lot of people forget is using etiquite ahead of time to improve the targets disposition and feel them out for details on what makes them tick.

As to extra things to leverage your negotiations on are working the shadows to find toys/gear for you and your team. Many faces at tables I've run are the ones going over town and getting what the team needs and in the process making contacts.

It would be nice if there were a more robust negotiation system, i've toyed with the idea a couple times but have yet to articulate something i can put down.

[Elfenlied]

Do note that you can purchase equipment with Negotiate, and at a DP of 12, you're the equivalent of a R2 Fixer.

[Ascalaphus]

Check my sig. Yerameyahu said it best that time.


Don't just roll the dice. It's okay if you can't act-out negotiating quite as good as your character should be at it, by the numbers. There's a couple of ways to do this:

* You act out the conversation with the GM, and then roll the dice, and "what was actually said" depends a bit on both. This can be unsatisfying, because suppose you seem to be doing really well during RP, but your dice just suck - that's disconcerting.

* You tell the GM "I'm going to Negotiate with him, and I'm going to do it like this: ..." At that point, you tell if you're trying to play hardball or be all amicable like. If you use threats. If you leverage any research you've already done about the matter at stake. What you want to achieve, what you won't accept at all. Any other tactics you're using, such as the mage reading Johnson's mind and giving you inside info. THEN you apply some modifiers based on what you're doing, and both roll the dice, and the dice result what you actually achieve.

The nice thing about the second way is that it puts some strategy into being a face, and even a player who isn't a brilliant schmooze can play a face. It also gives the other players a way to help you, because they can supply you "ammo" through their own abilities.

And it just has a lot more flavor than saying "I'm rolling Negotiation against Mr. Johnson to see how much more money I can squeeze out of him."

[whatevs]

I as a GM have been known to modify the test based on the player actions. That said, only 12 dice? A rude obnoxious smelly street sam dressed in a fashion nightmare can get 12 dice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Wanted to generalize. We're all pretty new at my table, so wanted to cover as many bases as possible. Plus I like being able to be good at lots 'o stuff:
Con 12 , Disguise 12 , Etiquette 12 , Intimidation 12 , Leadership 12, Negotiation 12
Pistols 8(10) smartlink
Dodge 10
Infiltration 10
Palming 10
Perception 10(13) contacts and earbuds
Shadowing 10
Judge Intentions 15

Ok are you looking for how to expand your actual die pool or how to get more out of the die pool you have. THe other thing a lot of people forget is using etiquite ahead of time to improve the targets disposition and feel them out for details on what makes them tick.

Many faces at tables I've run are the ones going over town and getting what the team needs and in the process making contacts.

Trying to get more out of my existing dice pools (please see above). I really like the etiquite roll before negotiating. Will give that a shot. These are the kinds of things I'm not doing right now. Great suggestions.

Do note that you can purchase equipment with Negotiate, and at a DP of 12, you're the equivalent of a R2 Fixer.

I have a 6/6 fixer, and my GM/player group hasn't really picked up on the fact I can do that sort of stuff yet. Great point though.

[suoq]

Note that if you're not into the role play aspect, don't sweat it. There's no shortage of people who roll dice to fire guns with no actual tactical or firearms knowledge.

And your dice pool only matters as far as your table is concerned.

[whatevs]

Social Modifiers Table. A good faces does prepwork, research, plays their role, and scapes for every card they can to stack the deck - just like any other runner.

Okay. Took a look at the social modifiers table and realize now that I was too 'in the box' when I just rolled negotiation. The trick seems to be tailoring the situation to my advantage before I start to negotiate.

Example: I could generate a distraction (think hot waitress walking around) during my meet with Mr. Johnson to get the -1 distraction bonus on my Etiquette test before I even negotiate. That means it will be easier for my character to make Mr. Johnson like him, which ends up as a bonus on the eventual negotiation test. (sr4a131, 'With respect to the character, the NPC ') .

Same goes for things like having background knowledge Mr. Johnson doesn't have (legwork and research before a meet), Johnson sticking out at the meeting location (picking the meet location), convincing Johnson that my character's desired outcome is actually a positive thing for him (con test), and even seducing (Mrs.) Johnson (con test).

Had no idea I could get that involved.