Regeneration (The Spell), Opinions Please Options

[Kesendeja]

My mage developed the spell after a friends daughter lost part of her leg. Rather than see her lose her burgeoning magic to cyber, or the family put under the strain of massive medical bills for clone replacement.

My GM has given tentative approval, both because of good story factor and that my mage has an Arcana skill of 7 specialized in spell design.

Regrowth
Type: P Range: T Duration: P DV: (F/2)+7
This spell allows the caster to regrow lost limbs or repair significant organ damage on a target. It cannot repair fatal damage. Nor can it cause the removal of cyberware. Essence lost is unaffected.
The threshold determines what extent of damage can be healed.
The strain of the regeneration causes a number of boxes of stun equal to twice the number of hits that were originally needed to regrow the body part. This stun cannot overflow into physical damage but may knock the patient out.

CODE

Hits   Effect                                                           Time
1       Minor damage                                                      5 Minutes to 2 hours
             (Fingers, toes, ear, cosmetic regeneration)
2       Moderate damage                                                3 Hours
             (Hand, foot etc...)
3       Severe damage                                                    2 to 4 Days
            (Entire limbs, complex organs like the eye or Kidney.
5+       Near Fatal damage                                                3 to 6 Days
            (Major organs, liver, lung, heart damage)

CODE

Force Effect
-4     Limb available to reattach
-1     Accident happened less than an hour ago
+0     Accident happened between 1 hour and 1 day
+1     Accident happened between 1 day and 1 week
+3     Accident happened between 1 week and 1 month
+5     Accident happened over 1 month

Edited for the thread results

Reason for edit: Corrected Title

[bobbaganoosh]

How does force factor in to the spell's effect? It seems like you could just cast this at force 1 without sacrificing anything. Is there any actual benefit to casting it at a higher force?
Additionally, it seems like this is a very powerful spell in that it negates the need for cloned replacement limbs or cyberlimbs. As such, there should be some challenge associated with using or acquiring the spell.
Can the spell be cast on a target only once per "set of wounds"? Does the spell heal all parts of the body that have been affected (for instance, if the subject is missing an arm, a hand, and some toes, and the caster gets 3+ net hits, do all of the subject's missing parts come back, or what?)
How does the spell affect the subject's condition monitors?

I think my biggest concern with introducing a spell like this into a game would be that it makes cyber and cloned limb replacements basically obsolete. There should be a price to pay, either nuyen or essence, for losing a limb. What are the drawbacks to the spell? If there aren't any, then it's too powerful.

[Stalag]

How does force factor in to the spell's effect? It seems like you could just cast this at force 1 without sacrificing anything. Is there any actual benefit to casting it at a higher force?
Additionally, it seems like this is a very powerful spell in that it negates the need for cloned replacement limbs or cyberlimbs. As such, there should be some challenge associated with using or acquiring the spell.
Can the spell be cast on a target only once per "set of wounds"? Does the spell heal all parts of the body that have been affected (for instance, if the subject is missing an arm, a hand, and some toes, and the caster gets 3+ net hits, do all of the subject's missing parts come back, or what?)
How does the spell affect the subject's condition monitors?

I think my biggest concern with introducing a spell like this into a game would be that it makes cyber and cloned limb replacements basically obsolete. There should be a price to pay, either nuyen or essence, for losing a limb. What are the drawbacks to the spell? If there aren't any, then it's too powerful.

I gotta agree, I see several problems with this spell.

First off, essence can't be created from mana. If it could all those essence hungry critters out there would likely have evolved to just suck up mana and convert it. So if the spell is going to restore her essence then the essence will have to come from something (or someone) else just like it does for every other essence "restoration". This leads to the second problem: Whenever one creature takes essence from another creature the stolen essence will fade over time requiring the creature to seek out more. So if this spell works, while the limb it regrows may be permanent, the essence would fade over time and she'd need to repeat the spell to restore it again... ergo you'd be turning her into a vampire of sorts. Which is the third problem: Once you get into Essence exchange you're essentially delving into Blood Magic - a very dark and dangerous place to go. Recall the old saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Finally (I couldn't come up with another semi-clever segway) if this worked, even without the essence, half the corps in the world be after you to keep you from destroying the limb-replacement industry while the other half would be after you to buy the spell for resale (and then probably kill you after to avoid copyright issues).

Though, really, with an Arcana of 7 I'm kind of surprised the magic dealing corps aren't already sending shadow teams to "recruit" you.

[Kesendeja]

How does force factor in to the spell's effect? It seems like you could just cast this at force 1 without sacrificing anything. Is there any actual benefit to casting it at a higher force?

Hits are capped by force, so you'll need at least a force equal to the threshold.

Additionally, it seems like this is a very powerful spell in that it negates the need for cloned replacement limbs or cyberlimbs. As such, there should be some challenge associated with using or acquiring the spell.

As it stands now replacement limbs only require money, time and is more of a nuisance than anything. Imagine the cost of a mage casting this spell.

Can the spell be cast on a target only once per "set of wounds"? Does the spell heal all parts of the body that have been affected (for instance, if the subject is missing an arm, a hand, and some toes, and the caster gets 3+ net hits, do all of the subject's missing parts come back, or what?)

As with normal curative magic it is once per set of wounds, and may only be cast once per wound.

How does the spell affect the subject's condition monitors?

It doesn't. This is not a curative spell, it was designed to fix the secondary effects of wounds.

I think my biggest concern with introducing a spell like this into a game would be that it makes cyber and cloned limb replacements basically obsolete. There should be a price to pay, either nuyen or essence, for losing a limb. What are the drawbacks to the spell? If there aren't any, then it's too powerful.

This spell was designed for medical mages in areas where clonal replacments or decent cyberware are rare. Like a shadowrun team in a hideout or in the barrens. Most people will find it easier to still take the time and money to go to the hospital for mundane replacements.

[EuroShadow]

I think this is good spell.

However, I am sure that you need to mention that it doesn't cure any Essence loss (otherwise it will be abused).

[Aerospider]

I think the spell should be harder to succeed reliably. How about net hits are the new organ/limb's attributes (capped at the old limb's attribute ratings)? So sure you got your leg back, but you still don't jump so good ...

[Aerospider]

First off, essence can't be created from mana.

Essence does not equal sum of body parts remaining.

You can lose a whole leg with no effect on your Essence and take a reduction as soon as you fit a cyberleg. You might think it illogical, but it's true.

[Ascalaphus]

I think you might want to move up the required hits per body part to be regenerated, to make sure that most mages need to overcast to heal serious damage. That way, only a handful of badass mages are comfortable using this spell, and the corporate market position won't be threatened too much by a cheaper alternative to cloned organs.

It might also be interesting to differentiate needed hits based on:
* How long ago the injury occurred.
* If the severed body part is available to reattach (makes it easier, can make it a fun sidequest to recover a lost arm because otherwise the spell is too hard to safely cast).

If you fiddle with the numbers to keep it balanced, I think in principle the spell is good.

[Kesendeja]

It might also be interesting to differentiate needed hits based on:
* How long ago the injury occurred.
* If the severed body part is available to reattach (makes it easier, can make it a fun sidequest to recover a lost arm because otherwise the spell is too hard to safely cast).

I really like the idea. I'll have to see what I can do.

[Traul]

The Yakuza will love it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Faelan]

I would probably make the regrowth take a number of weeks equal to the number of hits required for the body part. I don't think the intent is to have an instant TADAAA!!! here is your new leg.

[HunterHerne]

The Yakuza will love it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Ha. No. The Yakuza would enforce a strict "no regeneration" policy for failure, I think. Since the lost finger parts are from punishment.

[ChatNoir]

Yep, I'm sure there would be some thing like ths :
Yakuza boss : oh, you regenerate your finger ?
Yakusa grunt : Hmmm .... well, you see ....
Yakuza boss : Try regenerate your head now ... *slash* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I think this is good spell.

However, I am sure that you need to mention that it doesn't cure any Essence loss (otherwise it will be abused).

Losing a Limb does not incur Essence Loss. Ever. Only replacing it with Cyber does that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

EDIT: Oops, Missed Aerospider's original Post on this subject.

[DMiller]

I agree I like it. I also like the idea of making it a little harder. Maybe adding a threshold of say 7 - Target's Essence. That way a cybered-up person becomes that much harder to regenerate. But an unmodified child is still pretty easy. All that this would do is change your chart from 'Hits' to 'Net hits'.

-D

[Adarael]

It seems okay in general, but I do question its necessity.

If a little girl loses a leg in 2011, it's tragic. In 2073, it's more of a "terrible accident" at worst, and at best, a minor inconvenience. She can have a new leg cloned from her tissue, force-grown to the right size, and reattached. Or she can buy an off-the-rack Type 0 leg. Or, if you're destitute, you can steal a leg from another little girl and attach it.

I can understand it from the perspective of "I know a mage and he fixed my little girl because he knows healing magic." From a wider perspective, there are more commerically viable ways of attaching legs to little girls.

[Yerameyahu]

On a magic-theory note: if regrowth takes weeks… what's the mage doing during that time? I think he'd have to be sustaining. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Mardrax]

On a magic-theory note: if regrowth takes weeks… what's the mage doing during that time? I think he'd have to be sustaining. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Handwave it as needing x hours of attention from the mage per week?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Handwave it as needing x hours of attention from the mage per week?

Why? If you say it takes weeks, the magic is still not completed until it is regenerated, so it should be maintained.
*shrug*

[Yerameyahu]

I'm just not sure magic works that way, that's all. Things are either instant, sustained, or permanent.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm just not sure magic works that way, that's all.

So don't make it take weeks. Treat it like Standard Healing. Takes a few Turns and done. There is a reason there is no Regeneration spell currently. It can work, but you have to make the choice. Either it takes time, and should be maintained (sustained) or it is a Permanent Spell, and uses those rules. *shrug*

[Yerameyahu]

But that results in insta-limbs, which I gathered they were trying to avoid here. And it *is* a permanent either way, just like Heal is.

I view this spell as largely flavor, because it relies on people even using the Advanced Wound rules in the first place. So I'm not too worried about balancing it. The services of a mage are expensive, so there's theoretically a fair balance between medical and magical treatment of these kinds of non-Damage wounds.

[Ascalaphus]

Maybe instead make it a Metamagic that uses Ritual Spellcasting?



I like the general idea of magical regeneration, but I wouldn't want it to be a commercially sound alternative to biotech.

Maybe components? Use Enchanting and reagents? Those are the typical ways to make magic-use expensive.

[Mardrax]

I like the general idea of magical regeneration, but I wouldn't want it to be a commercially sound alternative to biotech.

Maybe components? Use Enchanting and reagents? Those are the typical ways to make magic-use expensive.

Hence my more extended-test proposal. Paying a mage for that ammount of time is expensive.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

But that results in insta-limbs, which I gathered they were trying to avoid here. And it *is* a permanent either way, just like Heal is.

I view this spell as largely flavor, because it relies on people even using the Advanced Wound rules in the first place. So I'm not too worried about balancing it. The services of a mage are expensive, so there's theoretically a fair balance between medical and magical treatment of these kinds of non-Damage wounds.

True... I can see that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)