More idiot matrix questions..., ...reality filters Options

[Neowulf]

Pretty sure you don't get any scrutiny if the account your using has the permissions to do what you want.
I doubt Steve the security hacker gets an alert event every time Bob the accountant accesses the accounting database.

Stealth checks only come into play when you need elevated permissions, like Bob the accountant's account trying to access the security cameras at the loading bay.

[DMiller]

Let me start off by saying we've house-ruled the hell out of the matrix...

We use security tally, every time the hacker uses the hacking skill a test is made the hacker rolls Stealth (only the program dice), the system/IC/spider rolls Analyze+Rating (or computer skill). Net hits are added to the security tally. Once the tally threshold is reached the alert happens. The hacker can edit the security log (after locating it) by making a hacking + edit roll to reduce her tally.

Account permissions come into play this way. If the account is allowed to do something then the hacker rolls Computer + program, if not the hacker rolls Hacking + Program.

Also the system makes a regular security sweep on a set interval, this is handled the same as the use of hacking skill as far as dice rolls and security tally. The higher security the node, the more frequest the scheduled scan and the lower the alarm threshold. The hist from the initial breaking in test are also added to the tally on first entry, so probing is very important.

It works well for us. It makes a good Stealth program a must and hacking the correct permissions very important. It also means that a very high Stealth in a very easy system will likely never be caught (which to me is how it should be).

-D

[Draco18s]

Account permissions come into play this way. If the account is allowed to do something then the hacker rolls Computer + program, if not the hacker rolls Hacking + Program.

How to game this system:
Only spend points in Hacking, not Computers (save the BP) and then never bother getting a legit account.

Not to mention that the Analyzer gets 2 tallies to their pool, the hacker only one.

And a Technomancer who does not have Shield is usually a dead Technomancer...

Shield exists, where?

[LostProxy]

How to game this system:
Only spend points in Hacking, not Computers (save the BP) and then never bother getting a legit account.

Not to mention that the Analyzer gets 2 tallies to their pool, the hacker only one.



Shield exists, where?

Shield is in Unwired.

[ggodo]

Once again proving that the technomancer parts of unwired are what make them viable.

[Draco18s]

Shield is in Unwired.

Ah ha, there it is. It's a spethle complex form just for TMs that make them "actually playable" instead of made of suck.

[LostProxy]

I don't think TMs are that bad. It's just they are such specialists I can't play them. On the other hand Sprites are pretty cool. Get yourself a strong enough one and you don't even have to hack any more. Just have it do it.

That reminds me. Once we did have a sprite specialist TM. Because they didn't have to put as many points into hacking skills it allowed them to actually have workable pools in other skills. Only time I've seen it work though.

[DMiller]

How to game this system:
Only spend points in Hacking, not Computers (save the BP) and then never bother getting a legit account.

Not to mention that the Analyzer gets 2 tallies to their pool, the hacker only one.

Correct the analyzer does get two things added to their pool and the hacker only one. But the analyzer (in our system) is working towards an extended test threshold and at any time the hacker can reduce the analyzer's hits towards that threshold by making a simple edit test, thus effectivly extending the threshold further. Allowing the hacker to have two items to their pool does work, however it can produce the undectable hacker that already exists by RAW. We were trying to remove the possibility of the undectable hacker without breaking the matrix further.

As for only using hacking and not computer, that can be done but it does make it so that even the most simple tasks induce the scan check (including on your own PAN as you don't know how to operate it only how to hack it). There are ways to game any system (except one*) so finding the loopholes and exploiting them is up to the player and GM to stop.

*note: there is one system that can not be gamed (exploited)... Don't play roleplaying games. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

-D

Edit: Please note I have not provided the full house rules here just an overview. They have been playtested and do work quite well.

[Ryu]

This is why I don't like the hacking rules:

If your Stealth rating is high enough (i.e. "7+") you can't be detected ever no matter what they might as well not even try. You win.

If your Stealth rating is not high enough then you're detected all the time every time no matter what you might as well not even try. You lose (and have a chance at being killed outright*).

*If you are a technomancer and cybercomat begins, abort immediately and make a new character. That's REAL damage you're taking there, Son. And it's unresisted (you get your Armor CF, that's it; the game doesn't care if it's effecting you like Biofeedback does, it's still not resisted with your Biofeedback rating).

Yes, stealth can be powergamed so that normal nodes do not have a chance. There is still a happy medium were the rules actually work.

If you are a TM and cybercombat starts, you should hit one of your "Help!" buttons. 1) Be faster 2)If you are not, thread shield 3)thread Attack and attack 4)Repeat for next opponent

[Draco18s]

Yes, stealth can be powergamed so that normal nodes do not have a chance. There is still a happy medium were the rules actually work.

The problem is that that "happy medium" is extremely narrow.

Along the lines of spirits and ITNW: F4 is beatable by most players (such that it's a push over). F6 is not even scratchable.

There's no room to have a cakewalk (but still threatening) hack at one end and a challenging (but non-lethal) hack at the other end.

1) Be faster

Interviewer: "Anything you have to say about the little girl you raped and murdered?"
Oswald Dans: "Yes. She should have run faster."

[Ryu]

The problem is that that "happy medium" is extremely narrow.

Along the lines of spirits and ITNW: F4 is beatable by most players (such that it's a push over). F6 is not even scratchable.

There's no room to have a cakewalk (but still threatening) hack at one end and a challenging (but non-lethal) hack at the other end.

While the writeup was fixed well with SR4A, the "simultaneous extended test" mechanic for Exploit is IMO atrocious. There is room for a happy medium if you don´t auto-assume r6 nodes for anyone important. A varying combination of Firewall + Analyse ratings permits you to have a solid game. It´s just that the cheap cost of hardware and software (in perspective to a proper augmentation budget, not Jane Wageslave) leads to maxed ratings, and once you walk that way, you have binary results. Every hacker will be build to defeat the worst possible nodes.
What about opting out of "maximum as standard"and lowering the entry barrier to hacking substantially? As if the original author had managed to build a game system without dominant strategy?

Interviewer: "Anything you have to say about the little girl you raped and murdered?"
Oswald Dans: "Yes. She should have run faster."

Little girl you are trying to catch is an agile super-athlete carrying a sword-gun from Final Fantasy. The first step is just acknowledging that not being shot at all is better than dodging... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stalag]

Only spend points in Hacking, not Computers (save the BP) and then never bother getting a legit account.

As a GM I'd have issues with any character whose Computer skill rating was not at least half his Hacking skill rating... one thing SR left out of character creation... Skill Prerequisites.

[Draco18s]

While the writeup was fixed well with SR4A, the "simultaneous extended test" mechanic for Exploit is IMO atrocious. There is room for a happy medium if you don´t auto-assume r6 nodes for anyone important. A varying combination of Firewall + Analyse ratings permits you to have a solid game. It´s just that the cheap cost of hardware and software (in perspective to a proper augmentation budget, not Jane Wageslave) leads to maxed ratings, and once you walk that way, you have binary results. Every hacker will be build to defeat the worst possible nodes.
What about opting out of "maximum as standard"and lowering the entry barrier to hacking substantially? As if the original author had managed to build a game system without dominant strategy?

Indeed.

Little girl you are trying to catch is an agile super-athlete carrying a sword-gun from Final Fantasy. The first step is just acknowledging that not being shot at all is better than dodging... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I was referencing Torchwood >..>

[Udoshi]

Account permissions come into play this way. If the account is allowed to do something then the hacker rolls Computer + program, if not the hacker rolls Hacking + Program.

How does this work?
If a hacker rolls Computer + Program, do they need a certain number of hits to see how well they did? You know, kind of like a Threshold?

But then it becomes an Opposed test with Hacking + Program vs System+firewall, right?
How does that work? If there's no threshold, doesn't that mean its often easier to do what you want by hacking it? (not that i'm complaining, workarounds are often faster than legit fixes)

[LostProxy]

Was my old group the only one who copied EPs hacking rules because they made more sense to us? Wasn't that big of a shift either. Most of the modifiers were applied to thresholds instead of dice pools and it all went pretty smoothly. Plus it made skill the most important thing with higher progs acting like reach. The difference in rating acted as a positive modifier.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Was my old group the only one who copied EPs hacking rules because they made more sense to us? Wasn't that big of a shift either. Most of the modifiers were applied to thresholds instead of dice pools and it all went pretty smoothly. Plus it made skill the most important thing with higher progs acting like reach. The difference in rating acted as a positive modifier.

Do you have a copy of those House Rules?
I would like to see them.

[Yerameyahu]

EP hacking has its own issues. :/

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

EP hacking has its own issues. :/

Have yet to play, unfortunately, as I will likely be the one running it when it does happen.
Got any advice or information?

Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[LostProxy]

I don't know if it was the hacking itself or how easy it was to get tons of Teamwork bonuses. But that's not exactly an issue because of how easily the opposition can do it as well. That just creates a new zero rather then giving the PCs an advantage.

Ya I have em sitting around here somewhere. I'll pm them to you as soon as I find the file in my spare drive. I've been meaning to clean that thing out. This is my new excuse to get it done lol.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, one of the EP issues is that being detected while hacking has very little to do with your hacking skills or gear. If the defender succeeds within his own limits, he got you. :/ On the other end, it's pretty easy to be hyperspec at hacking, which is no fun for anyone. It's an odd system.

[LostProxy]

He doesn't have you the system only knows you're there. Doesn't know where you are. It's as simple as spending an action to improve your status and if you tie AGAIN well moxie that crap. Personally I brute forced the majority of my hacks so being spotted was expected.

[Yerameyahu]

That's exactly what I said. You shouldn't have to brute force everything.

[LostProxy]

Is that what you meant by Hypersec?

Brute Force is the same as hacking on the fly in SR. You do it when you don't have the time to be patient. Most of our hacks didn't give me the time to be methodical about it. So you BF when you don't have time. You take your time and probe when you don't. So you should have too when your GM doesn't give you an option.

[Yerameyahu]

Hyper-specialize, and yes, I was thinking of those awful 'combat hacker' builds. As for the other, knowing you're there is *bad* and there's nothing you can really do, except—yes—waste a precious action in a futile attempt to hide… even though they already know someone's there.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I don't know if it was the hacking itself or how easy it was to get tons of Teamwork bonuses. But that's not exactly an issue because of how easily the opposition can do it as well. That just creates a new zero rather then giving the PCs an advantage.

Ya I have em sitting around here somewhere. I'll pm them to you as soon as I find the file in my spare drive. I've been meaning to clean that thing out. This is my new excuse to get it done lol.

Awesome, Thanks. I look forward to looking at them.