I understand how these work in principal and the rules are clear enough but...

1. does the filter affect only what the winning hacker sees?
2. will it change other persona icons?
3. if there are multiple reality filters running in the node do they change the architecture for the hacker running them only or for all the hackers in the node? ie do they override the system only or the filters on another 'link?

Thanks

1. Insofar as that he sees the UI he's used to working with, instead of the node's own virtual sculpting, yes.
2. See 1.
3. Reality Filters change the way a single user perceives the node he's in. Every single thing within it will conform to the design of his Reality Filter, from the node's layout, to the programs running on it, and the iconography of the users on it.

1) yes
2) no
3) only theirs

Big node is set up with a Napoleonic architecture. Hacker A successfully uses a sci-fi reality filter. Hacker B successfully uses a fantasy filter. Hacker C fails to use a surfing filter.

IMO (can't support this by the book one bit) hacker A & B are comfortable in their preferred realities (+1 each). Hacker C is having this really jarring mixture of surfers and french soldiers surfing/riding through french towns with the occasional tiki themed business (-1). C would be better off just killing the filter and using the unfamiliar metaphor.

It should have been +1 if you succeed, +0 if you fail, on that test. Otherwise, no one would use reality filters.

Why aren't you using them anyway and then turning it off if it doesn't succeed?

Hence my previous post.

They could make them per-login, or simply waste Actions switching.

Which only really matters if they trigger an alert, and have to be quick before cybercombat gets them a log-off anyway.

Does anyone really them? and if so what?

I think you have a missing verb.

*shrug* Hacking is fundamentally about speed. Defending against it is about slowing the hacker down, etc. If it costs actions at all, that's helping.

If I'm probing then I'll use it just because I'm already in and they failed to spot me so I have the time to waste. Plus you never know when that +1 could mean the difference between tripping a data bomb and getting away clean.

You never have the time to waste. A node that doesn't have at least one patrolling IC Analyzing is most likely a node not worth hacking into.

There is "Customized Interface" in Unwired, and that is IMO as far as it should go, both from effect and rules complication. The way your commlink displays information for you will (IMO) always be set for your preferences. If the way the matrix is displayed to you matters, please tell me (regardless of my GM/player state). As far as familiarity with a certain iconography is concerned, I´d look more at knowledge skills than program ownership.

But as said, the rules are clear.

The idea is that VR *matters*. When you enter a virtual environment, you really enter it. This is perhaps much more clear with UV nodes, but still. I'm not saying RF is a good job.

With Stealth 7+ it hardly matters.

Techno? Gotta love threading.

This is why I don't like the hacking rules:

If your Stealth rating is high enough (i.e. "7+") you can't be detected ever no matter what they might as well not even try. You win.

If your Stealth rating is not high enough then you're detected all the time every time no matter what you might as well not even try. You lose (and have a chance at being killed outright*).

*If you are a technomancer and cybercomat begins, abort immediately and make a new character. That's REAL damage you're taking there, Son. And it's unresisted (you get your Armor CF, that's it; the game doesn't care if it's effecting you like Biofeedback does, it's still not resisted with your Biofeedback rating).

That last part is real dumb, so dumb I didn't even notice it til now. I've always given the technos biofeedback for cyber combat.

You do realize that once you are in the system, every action you perform likely results in an OPPOSED Stealth Test vs the System's/Agent's/Hacker's Analyze right? Since it is opposed, you can be seen. I have seen the technomancers rating 14 Stealth get cracked by a rating 9 system. Roll enough times and you will be spotted.

Armor is for the Attack Damage inflicted...
Biofeedback Filter is for the BlackHammer/BlackOut/Biofeedback Damage Inflicted...

They both have uses...

And a Technomancer who does not have Shield is usually a dead Technomancer...

Actually I was talking about the Milspech progs from War. Besides BRs it's the only thing we use from it because it's done nothing bad while making some stuff better. As said in Unwired Milspec programs were only given as special rewards for missions. In my case it was getting the R9 stealth after rescuing a GOD investigator who was being tortured in a UV node.

I don't think they would be Analyzing you if the account you have is legal. As in the rules in Unwired that show you how to hack a legit account.

Nope, they analyze you constantly, regardless. Otherwise, it makes no sense, and it's impossible to ever find hackers.

Then what's the point of making a legit account?

You can do certain actions without a roll.

Pretty sure you don't get any scrutiny if the account your using has the permissions to do what you want.
I doubt Steve the security hacker gets an alert event every time Bob the accountant accesses the accounting database.

Stealth checks only come into play when you need elevated permissions, like Bob the accountant's account trying to access the security cameras at the loading bay.

Let me start off by saying we've house-ruled the hell out of the matrix...

We use security tally, every time the hacker uses the hacking skill a test is made the hacker rolls Stealth (only the program dice), the system/IC/spider rolls Analyze+Rating (or computer skill). Net hits are added to the security tally. Once the tally threshold is reached the alert happens. The hacker can edit the security log (after locating it) by making a hacking + edit roll to reduce her tally.

Account permissions come into play this way. If the account is allowed to do something then the hacker rolls Computer + program, if not the hacker rolls Hacking + Program.

Also the system makes a regular security sweep on a set interval, this is handled the same as the use of hacking skill as far as dice rolls and security tally. The higher security the node, the more frequest the scheduled scan and the lower the alarm threshold. The hist from the initial breaking in test are also added to the tally on first entry, so probing is very important.

It works well for us. It makes a good Stealth program a must and hacking the correct permissions very important. It also means that a very high Stealth in a very easy system will likely never be caught (which to me is how it should be).

-D

How to game this system:
Only spend points in Hacking, not Computers (save the BP) and then never bother getting a legit account.

Not to mention that the Analyzer gets 2 tallies to their pool, the hacker only one.



Shield exists, where?

Shield is in Unwired.

Once again proving that the technomancer parts of unwired are what make them viable.

Ah ha, there it is. It's a spethle complex form just for TMs that make them "actually playable" instead of made of suck.

I don't think TMs are that bad. It's just they are such specialists I can't play them. On the other hand Sprites are pretty cool. Get yourself a strong enough one and you don't even have to hack any more. Just have it do it.

That reminds me. Once we did have a sprite specialist TM. Because they didn't have to put as many points into hacking skills it allowed them to actually have workable pools in other skills. Only time I've seen it work though.

Correct the analyzer does get two things added to their pool and the hacker only one. But the analyzer (in our system) is working towards an extended test threshold and at any time the hacker can reduce the analyzer's hits towards that threshold by making a simple edit test, thus effectivly extending the threshold further. Allowing the hacker to have two items to their pool does work, however it can produce the undectable hacker that already exists by RAW. We were trying to remove the possibility of the undectable hacker without breaking the matrix further.

As for only using hacking and not computer, that can be done but it does make it so that even the most simple tasks induce the scan check (including on your own PAN as you don't know how to operate it only how to hack it). There are ways to game any system (except one*) so finding the loopholes and exploiting them is up to the player and GM to stop.

*note: there is one system that can not be gamed (exploited)... Don't play roleplaying games.

-D

Edit: Please note I have not provided the full house rules here just an overview. They have been playtested and do work quite well.

Yes, stealth can be powergamed so that normal nodes do not have a chance. There is still a happy medium were the rules actually work.

If you are a TM and cybercombat starts, you should hit one of your "Help!" buttons. 1) Be faster 2)If you are not, thread shield 3)thread Attack and attack 4)Repeat for next opponent

The problem is that that "happy medium" is extremely narrow.

Along the lines of spirits and ITNW: F4 is beatable by most players (such that it's a push over). F6 is not even scratchable.

There's no room to have a cakewalk (but still threatening) hack at one end and a challenging (but non-lethal) hack at the other end.



Interviewer: "Anything you have to say about the little girl you raped and murdered?"
Oswald Dans: "Yes. She should have run faster."

While the writeup was fixed well with SR4A, the "simultaneous extended test" mechanic for Exploit is IMO atrocious. There is room for a happy medium if you don´t auto-assume r6 nodes for anyone important. A varying combination of Firewall + Analyse ratings permits you to have a solid game. It´s just that the cheap cost of hardware and software (in perspective to a proper augmentation budget, not Jane Wageslave) leads to maxed ratings, and once you walk that way, you have binary results. Every hacker will be build to defeat the worst possible nodes.
What about opting out of "maximum as standard"and lowering the entry barrier to hacking substantially? As if the original author had managed to build a game system without dominant strategy?


Little girl you are trying to catch is an agile super-athlete carrying a sword-gun from Final Fantasy. The first step is just acknowledging that not being shot at all is better than dodging...

As a GM I'd have issues with any character whose Computer skill rating was not at least half his Hacking skill rating... one thing SR left out of character creation... Skill Prerequisites.

Indeed.



I was referencing Torchwood >..>

How does this work?
If a hacker rolls Computer + Program, do they need a certain number of hits to see how well they did? You know, kind of like a Threshold?

But then it becomes an Opposed test with Hacking + Program vs System+firewall, right?
How does that work? If there's no threshold, doesn't that mean its often easier to do what you want by hacking it? (not that i'm complaining, workarounds are often faster than legit fixes)

Was my old group the only one who copied EPs hacking rules because they made more sense to us? Wasn't that big of a shift either. Most of the modifiers were applied to thresholds instead of dice pools and it all went pretty smoothly. Plus it made skill the most important thing with higher progs acting like reach. The difference in rating acted as a positive modifier.

Do you have a copy of those House Rules?
I would like to see them.

EP hacking has its own issues. :/

Have yet to play, unfortunately, as I will likely be the one running it when it does happen.
Got any advice or information?

Thanks

I don't know if it was the hacking itself or how easy it was to get tons of Teamwork bonuses. But that's not exactly an issue because of how easily the opposition can do it as well. That just creates a new zero rather then giving the PCs an advantage.

Ya I have em sitting around here somewhere. I'll pm them to you as soon as I find the file in my spare drive. I've been meaning to clean that thing out. This is my new excuse to get it done lol.

Well, one of the EP issues is that being detected while hacking has very little to do with your hacking skills or gear. If the defender succeeds within his own limits, he got you. :/ On the other end, it's pretty easy to be hyperspec at hacking, which is no fun for anyone. It's an odd system.

He doesn't have you the system only knows you're there. Doesn't know where you are. It's as simple as spending an action to improve your status and if you tie AGAIN well moxie that crap. Personally I brute forced the majority of my hacks so being spotted was expected.

That's exactly what I said. You shouldn't have to brute force everything.

Is that what you meant by Hypersec?

Brute Force is the same as hacking on the fly in SR. You do it when you don't have the time to be patient. Most of our hacks didn't give me the time to be methodical about it. So you BF when you don't have time. You take your time and probe when you don't. So you should have too when your GM doesn't give you an option.

Hyper-specialize, and yes, I was thinking of those awful 'combat hacker' builds. As for the other, knowing you're there is *bad* and there's nothing you can really do, except—yes—waste a precious action in a futile attempt to hide… even though they already know someone's there.

Awesome, Thanks. I look forward to looking at them.