IP's & roles, How many times should you go? Options

[Saint Hallow]

I currently play a street sammy in my weekly game that is using wired reflexes (rating 2). Along with the adrenaline surge quality, I go first in combat, & have 3 initiative passes. However, with all the 'ware & such, my character really isn't subtle & doesn't do well in covert/tactical/urban areas.

So I'm thinking if I get to chance to swap out or play a new character, my next street sam will be more essence friendly & not be packing a ton of cyberware. To retain the "edge" on my opponents, I should get the cultured bioware Synaptic Booster (which is the bioware version of wired reflexes). However, the cost of synaptic boosters is extreme. Should I shell out the 160,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for a Rating 2 (& keep having 3 IP's), or should I just get the Rating 1 (& only get 2 IP's)? With aderenaline surge, I can keep going first in combat, but then I only get an additional IP to act. For a combat character like myself, is having that 3rd extra IP worth it?

The combat in our games have taken longer than 2 to 3 combat turns, so having extra IP's in those turns have helped. However, the times we have had long fights, it's due to being unable to hurt the opposition due to their high armor or being magical & having ItNW.

I'm unsure of how to go about things... spending an extra 80,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to go again is costly & cutting back on some gear I could badly use.

[TheOOB]

The general rule I follows is that if you want to be useful in combat, you need 2 IP, and if you want to be good in combat, you need 3 IP.

Personally, I think Synaptic boosters are a waste at creation. That's 16 BP per init pass that could be spent making you're character better. Wired Reflexes are essence expensive, yes, but they work, and they don't cost such a huge part of you're character. In the long run I think Move-by-Wire systems are the best option for sami's, unless you're so wealthy that the 240,000 nuyen for rating 3 synaptic boosters is possible.

[ggodo]

I'm a firm believer in everybody combat having at least 2, preferably 3 IPs. The face and the medic can probably get away with less, but there are definitely midhigh power enemies that'll have 3 IPs. It seems like anyone high threat is going to be three and Gangers will be popping pills to get 2. I don't know how your GM plays it, but that's what I do.

[ggodo]

The general rule I follows is that if you want to be useful in combat, you need 2 IP, and if you want to be good in combat, you need 3 IP.

Personally, I think Synaptic boosters are a waste at creation. That's 16 BP per init pass that could be spent making you're character better. Wired Reflexes are essence expensive, yes, but they work, and they don't cost such a huge part of you're character. In the long run I think Move-by-Wire systems are the best option for sami's, unless you're so wealthy that the 240,000 nuyen for rating 3 synaptic boosters is possible.

I've seen good arguments on both sides of the synaptic booster vs. Wired Reflexes, and I gotta say, unless you're adept, Wired's the better choice at chargen, and depending on concept getting Move-by-Wire as the end goal is great MBW 2 is just a bit more expensive than Synaptic, and has SO MANY BENEFITS! Of course, you are constantly having mini seizures and may spontaneously kill a room full of people if startled.

[Saint Hallow]

Doesn't MBW & WR get caught by cyberware scanners, & SB doesn't? If you get scanned, & the 'ware shows up, better have a good rated fake license for them or else. With the number of AAA neighborhoods my group has been visiting, the threat of getting caught without the right SIN, RFID, & tags have been on the increase. This is why I'm looking to ease up on the 'ware & have easy/legal cyberware & use the bioware as the combat gear I have.

[Squinky]

I think the biggest factor is how your home game plays.

4 IP's is just annoying to everyone else, and 3 can be that way as well.

Lately my group has kinda made an agreement to keep it to 2 mostly. It opens up a lot of room for other ware and really is just right to us. Nobody gets left behind and annoyed much, even if they have 1 IP.

From reading your posts I'd say buy a level one synaptic, if security is an issue in your games.

[Saint Hallow]

I'll wait & see how more sessions go. If it seems we're not getting run-over in combat anymore due to having more players (as well as we're TRYING to be smarter in combat), I will cut myself down to 2 IP's & see if the playability is still there.

[ggodo]

Yeah, you definitely want Synaptic if you spend a lot of time getting scanned. Like I said, it depends a lot. If you're just the muscle, or in a campaign that's in less classy neghborhoods, MBW is king.

[TheOOB]

I've seen good arguments on both sides of the synaptic booster vs. Wired Reflexes, and I gotta say, unless you're adept, Wired's the better choice at chargen, and depending on concept getting Move-by-Wire as the end goal is great MBW 2 is just a bit more expensive than Synaptic, and has SO MANY BENEFITS! Of course, you are constantly having mini seizures and may spontaneously kill a room full of people if startled.

Actually, the more I look at it, the more I find Synaptic Boosters is a trap for adepts. With SR4A, and the (admittedly optional) rule from street magic allowing an adept to gain a power point for initiation in place of a metamagic, I don't thing Synaptic Boosters are worth it. Bascially, with karma, powers points are pretty cheap early on. It costs 16 BP to get the booster, plus half a point of magic you're losing(we'll say 5BP for the purposes of argument) for 21 BP total, roughly equal to 42 karma. A point and a half of magic at creation is only 15 BP, and you can make back you're first point spent with only 12 karma(5 for joining a magical group, 7 for a group initiation with an ordeal).

[Saint Hallow]

Luckily, I am not an adept. So magic means nothing to me, other than how I can make sure I don't become it's victim/biatch (enter obvious rule #2. Geek/kill the mage first).

[Udoshi]

The thing I really find that you're paying for with synaptic boosters is that they can't be taken away from you, ever.

Mana static or background won't get rid of adept powers or sustained, because your passes aren't based on magic. They can't be hacked because they're not cyberware - even if your opponent is a skinlink techno, or a mage using control electricity to turn electronics off. And it doesn't show up on a cyberware scanner either.

I think the most cheapest/breakable ways to get extra passes is with drugs, though. Its a temporary boost, but I've found that combat stims aren't too bad on the money. Just make sure you can pass a low threshold addiction test - or take natural immunity.

[Loch]

Heavy Weapons Troll is the only one at my table with 3 IP. He's the main bruiser in combat, but our gun adept makes do well enough with 2 passes. Rigger and Face only have 1 IP (Rigger because drones/VR get him more passes easily enough, Face because he plainly isn't a combat character).

Face has also been known to carry around a Jazz inhaler for when things go pear-shaped. He hasn't had to use it yet though.

[ggodo]

Actually, the more I look at it, the more I find Synaptic Boosters is a trap for adepts. With SR4A, and the (admittedly optional) rule from street magic allowing an adept to gain a power point for initiation in place of a metamagic, I don't thing Synaptic Boosters are worth it. Bascially, with karma, powers points are pretty cheap early on. It costs 16 BP to get the booster, plus half a point of magic you're losing(we'll say 5BP for the purposes of argument) for 21 BP total, roughly equal to 42 karma. A point and a half of magic at creation is only 15 BP, and you can make back you're first point spent with only 12 karma(5 for joining a magical group, 7 for a group initiation with an ordeal).

I've really thought that way, but I think it is for Synaptic 2 that it becomes profitable. You save 1.5 PP and, and without that optional rule that's a ton. I haven't done the math, but that's the argument I've heard here. Also, maybe not at chargen but later? That'd be something.

[Shortstraw]

Yeah adepts tend to accumulate lots of cash (at least in my experience) so the price isn't that important - s-boosters all the way.

[Elfenlied]

With the way scanners are currently (read: imbalanced), if there's even a remote chance that you'll operate in a better area (let's say B+) at least once per session, then go synaptic. Yes, it's a lot more expensive, but it gets to ignore those scanners outright.

[Ascalaphus]

Personally I just *like* SB. WR is useful to start out with, but not for later when you "graduate" to better equipment.

MBW is powerful, but it gives me the creeps. Do I want to spend all my time in a controlled epileptic seizure? Hell no!

SB is best if you're either starved for essence, or if subtlety is really important. In the long run, SB is also cheaper than beta/delta WR in Essence/Nuyen terms.

If you want the subtlety, make sure you review the rest of your implants; bioware is hard to detect, and if you can avoid all the scary-looking cyber, you might pass for a high-energy career wageslave trying to get the edge.

So, SB1 vs. SB2? Does your GM make you buy a whole new SB if you want to upgrade to 2, or can you patch on another SB to your SB1? If you can patch on, SB1 could be good enough to start with, otherwise you should definitely go SB2 and stick with it.

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Yeah adepts tend to accumulate lots of cash (at least in my experience) so the price isn't that important - s-boosters all the way.

Heh, Adepts need the essence for Toner 4...

With the way scanners are currently (read: imbalanced), if there's even a remote chance that you'll operate in a better area (let's say B+) at least once per session, then go synaptic. Yes, it's a lot more expensive, but it gets to ignore those scanners outright.

Better just remove the scanners from the rules (or gimp them in some way, for instance by making them really big like security walk-through portals. Now the cybered guy can't get on a plane, but that's what you have T-birders for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) . They make half the game not make sense.


As to the IP thing: It's a group issue. In my group, if anyone has less than 3IPs he'll be bored to hell in fights, since most people have 4. However, that may not be a standard worth aspiring to for many groups. So it's important the players talk it over and make sure that there aren't huge disparities.

[Seriously Mike]

SB is best if you're either starved for essence, or if subtlety is really important. In the long run, SB is also cheaper than beta/delta WR in Essence/Nuyen terms.

Oh yeah. The first item on my wishlist if I ever start playing Kestrel is 160k nuyen for SB2 (even that I took Biocompatibility for Cyberware) and either some handy cyberjunk or Essence-regeneration therapy. Because it's cool to be a speed-demon Street Sam with almost 3 Essence. Heck, upgrading arms to A-ware will put me over 3 after regeneration, so there's a reason for overcoming her dislike towards implants (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) .

[Paul]

Has there ever been an official reason for why the cost of wired reflexes dropped so drastically but the essence cost has remained static?

[Makki]

I have an Infiltrator who avoids combat at any cost. He has only 1IP as a logical consequence. (But a ini boost drug in a breakable tooth, just in case)

[KarmaInferno]

Has there ever been an official reason for why the cost of wired reflexes dropped so drastically but the essence cost has remained static?

I suspect it's cos manufacturing costs always drop over time, but the impact on your meat/mana balance isn't any less.



-k

[Bigity]

That you can can't get 1 million nuyen in chargen anymore.

[Paul]

I suspect it's cos manufacturing costs always drop over time, but the impact on your meat/mana balance isn't any less.

My initial instinct to just agree. And in part I do-the manufacturing costs would indeed drop. I'm just not so sure I agree that the essence loss, or invasiveness would remain the same? I mean look at TV's? Each year they get smaller and better.

That you can can't get 1 million nuyen in chargen anymore.

Which is what i think the real answer is. Game balance. And I'll be a good soldier and march, and all that...

[Bigity]

Actually I meant to say 'That AND you can't get blah blah', but yea (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Paul]

Yeah I figured as much.