Quick Qu: Spell Drain +Net Hits?, Can't see for looking... Options

[Aria]

I've checked the rules in SR4A and as far as I can see the examples show net hits being added to the drain code but I can't find that in the text...

Is it in there somewhere? In Street Magic?!? Is it an optional rule I've missed or RAW?
Does this apply to all spells or only combat / resisted spells?

Thanks very much

A

[Draco18s]

It's an SR4A optional rule that applies to direct combat spells only. Every net hit used to increase the DV adds 1 to drain.

[Aria]

Thanks!

[TheOOB]

For the record, it's a horrible optional rule that strongly encourages overcasting which was precisely the kind fo non-sense it was designed to stop.

[Draco18s]

For the record, it's a horrible optional rule that strongly encourages overcasting which was precisely the kind fo non-sense it was designed to stop.

Actually, it wasn't designed to stop overcasting.

[Dakka Dakka]

It was designed to make safe killing with direct combat spells more math intensive?

[Draco18s]

It was designed to make safe killing with direct combat spells more math intensive?

What it was designed to do, I have no idea.

But it clearly wasn't designed to stop overcasting or multicasting, as both of those became FAR more viable options.

[Neraph]

My fix is better.

All Indirect Combat spells have -2 drain value. All Direct Combat spells have +2 drain value.

[TheOOB]

My fix is better.

All Indirect Combat spells have -2 drain value. All Direct Combat spells have +2 drain value.

Ball Lightning at (2F)+3, sign me up

[Dakka Dakka]

Ball Lightning at (F/2)+3, sign me up

I fixed that for you.

[Neraph]

My fix is better.

All Indirect Combat spells have -2 drain value. All Direct Combat spells have +2 drain value.

It makes Indirect spells more appealing and Direct spells still good but with a higher chance of you actually taking Drain from them, which I think was the point of the +Net Hits O-RAW, although it was (IMHO) poorly conceived.

[TheOOB]

I fixed that for you.

Wow, maybe i shouldn't post at 11pm

It makes Indirect spells more appealing and Direct spells still good but with a higher chance of you actually taking Drain from them, which I think was the point of the +Net Hits O-RAW, although it was (IMHO) poorly conceived.

I'd agree, I'd like to see more indirect combat spells, and your house rule would do that, the problem I think that your rule kills direct combat spells. Contrary to popular belief, direct combat spells are not really all that powerful. Their damage is less than you would get from a good firearm, and they aren't any less subtle if cast at a high force. There are certainly things they are good at, but I don't feel dealing moderate damage in exchange for risking damage to yourself is a good trade off most the time. With your house rule I'd only take direct combat spells for astral combat...and even then I might just invest in a weapon foci and get the astral combat skill.

[Irion]

@TheOOB

Their damage is less than you would get from a good firearm, and they aren't any less subtle if cast at a high force.

Depends on how you think realising magic works.
This can be anything from:
You have to watch the caster to you realize it ten blocks away.

Thats why I always prefere description over just some numbers. Numbers alone won't tell you anything...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

@TheOOB

Depends on how you think realising magic works.
This can be anything from:
You have to watch the caster to you realize it ten blocks away.

Thats why I always prefere description over just some numbers. Numbers alone won't tell you anything...

Ummmmm.... What? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Irion]

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
The rules about realizing a spell do not tell you how you realize it and this means.
So you can't even tell who is intitled to the tests and what it means if they succeed in the test.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
The rules about realizing a spell do not tell you how you realize it and this means.
So you can't even tell who is intitled to the tests and what it means if they succeed in the test.

Everyone is entitled to make a test to notice magic.
If they succeed on the test, then they notice the spellcasting, and they know who cast it.

What more would you like?

[Irion]

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
On the planet, in the universe?

What more would you like?

]
To know who "everybody" is. Because everybody is defnitly not everybody.
Somebody casted a spell in Peking, hongkong, Paris, London etc. I do not think so....

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
On the planet, in the universe?

]
To know who "everybody" is. Because everybody is defnitly not everybody.
Somebody casted a spell in Peking, hongkong, Paris, London etc. I do not think so....

Now you are being pedantic. KISS Irion. Universally, Galactically, Globally, Or even Citywide is moronic in the least, and completely absurd otherwise. You should be In the Immediate Area. The effect will be more detectable, the more powerful (Higher Force) the effect is.

Start at 10 Meters (or whatever you define as immediate area), and extrapolate from there. There is no magic number, though, because each GM will have different ideas on how to define immediate area.

The Perception roll to detect Magic Use can also have other modifiers added to it if you like, Becasue it is AA perception Roll, and should also include modifiers that may help or hinder the attempt. For example...

- Visibility Modifiers (Line of "Sight" to the Effect), Intervening, opaque barriers impose heftier penalties than if you are next to effect
- Distraction penalties
- Active Looking
- Effect not in immediate vicinity
- Effect Far Away

See, you can, as the GM make it as easy or difficult as you like. Area is not defined for a reason. There are too many variable that can be involved. This is one of the reasons we have a GM.

[Slithery D]

The issue is do you notice the spell casting or do you notice the spell. If I'm concealed in an alley and powerbolt someone 100m away, can observers without line of sight on the caster see anything other than the wound on the target? Is there a back trace towards the caster? No clue by the rules.

[Irion]

Start at 10 Meters (or whatever you define as immediate area), and extrapolate from there. There is no magic number, though, because each GM will have different ideas on how to define immediate area.

It is not about a given number, it is about the point Slithery D brings up. (I thought this would be clear, but I guess it wasn't)
Without knowing how you can "see" the spell, this question can not be resolved. (Is it like the "Mentor-Mask" or light or sound or a feeling or...)
Only if I have those informations I can make a perception test, as a GM.
It is a complete different situation if the perceptiontest is called for if I am 10 feet away in LOS or also if I am around the next corner...

Example: To see that a subject is having a badge attached to his or her uniform would be an easy test.
One hit at most, mostly it would not even call for a test. But this test would be impossible if you can't see the person in the first place.

Sure I can make something up, but for this I do not need rules in the first place. Only one sentance telling: Magic can be noticed by mundane, higher force are easier to notice...

[Ryu]

It was designed to make safe killing with direct combat spells more math intensive?

I don´t know what it was made for, but if your group does not use that rule...

You should figure out how many direct combat spells you can safely multicast. See Mentor bonus, spellcasting specialisation, Combat Spell Category Focus, dp splitting rules.

[Mäx]

I'd agree, I'd like to see more indirect combat spells, and your house rule would do that, the problem I think that your rule kills direct combat spells. Contrary to popular belief, direct combat spells are not really all that powerful. Their damage is less than you would get from a good firearm, and they aren't any less subtle if cast at a high force.

You really need to explain your definition of a good firearm, because a force 7 stunbolt does atleast equal amount of damage that you would get from most firearms and most targets only get to resist that damage with their willpower and even with that rule it's only 4 drain.

[Dakka Dakka]

The issue is do you notice the spell casting or do you notice the spell. If I'm concealed in an alley and powerbolt someone 100m away, can observers without line of sight on the caster see anything other than the wound on the target? Is there a back trace towards the caster? No clue by the rules.

You notice the casting according to the description. Only SR4A introduces weird "sparkles" which are not clearly defined as to where they appear.

[Mäx]

Only SR4A introduces weird "sparkles" which are not clearly defined as to where they appear.

How on earth is "in the air around the caster" not clearly defined?

[Irion]

@Max + Dakka Dakka
Thanks for the info, that was what I was looking for.