 My history with CGL, Why I think things are better now |
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 Oct 19 2011, 07:54 PM
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#26
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514  |
QUOTE (Bull @ Oct 19 2011, 03:44 PM)  Ummm. I think we're saving that for a web supplement (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) <grin> (BTW, when I said "Available Soon"? Yeah. I meant within a couple hours. It's up. Enjoy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) Bull Linkage? I don't know what other forum we're discussing here. |
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Oct 19 2011, 08:03 PM
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#27
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
QUOTE (Grinder @ Oct 19 2011, 03:52 PM) It's just full of adventure hooks, npcs, and similar random stuff? Hmmm... There's a lot of story and plot stuff too. Hopefully some of it's fun, hopefully some is interesting, and hopefully a lot of it's useful. Since the book is out (barely), I can probably talk about it a bit more. The book has 20 sections to it. Each section takes a plotline or a subject and opens with an "in Character " piece. Care was taken to make sure that the IC stuff was more obvious than it's been in past books (We remember this being a major complaint with War!). So you'll find that the layout is a bit different for the IC stuff, making it stand out more. The IC stuff is done up a lot like some of the old books such as "Threats", and they're presented in a variety of styles, from office memos to interviews to stories being told by the Jackpointers. And of course you get the Jackpoint commentary on it as well. Then there's a Gamemaster section which gives background on the topic, in some cases extra rules and summaries, sometimes some NPC stats, and a bunch of story hooks and ideas to let GMs drop trhe info from that section into their game. Then at the back there's a big "Character Trove", which is a big list of general NPCs that GMs can use as well. Anyone who's been asking for more misc. generic NPC stats will like this section, I think. There's also a few "named" characters that make an appearance in both the main sections and the Character Trove. I'll let someone else actually review it, since obviously I'm biased, having worked on it (I wrote three sections. I'll let you guys figure out which three (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ). It was a lot of fun, and I really, really hope you guys like it. Bull |
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Oct 19 2011, 08:05 PM
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#28
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
QUOTE (Paul @ Oct 19 2011, 03:54 PM) Linkage? I don't know what other forum we're discussing here. http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=5164.0 The official SR4 forums. Things got a little... Silly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Bull |
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Oct 19 2011, 09:20 PM
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#29
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Street Doc Group: Admin Posts: 3,508 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Neverwhere Member No.: 6,114 |
QUOTE (3278 @ Oct 19 2011, 01:53 PM) Don't get me started. The state of playtesting for Shadowrun is deplorable, from everything I've seen. I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing we have different perspectives on this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Oct 19 2011, 10:56 PM
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#30
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
QUOTE (Bull @ Oct 19 2011, 03:05 PM) http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=5164.0 Of course it did. I was involved. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
The official SR4 forums. Things got a little... Silly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Bull |
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Oct 19 2011, 11:16 PM
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#31
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,183 Joined: 5-December 07 From: Lower UCAS, along the border Member No.: 14,507 |
Not gonna lie - if we could get some more stuff that was similar in style and flavor to late 2e / 3e fluff (IE, dossiers and profiles loaded and sent out over ShadowSEA) I'd be a happy raven.
Doubly not going to lie - I am now tempted by Artifacts Unbound. But you've woo'd me before, Catalyst... |
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Oct 19 2011, 11:46 PM
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#32
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (3278 @ Oct 19 2011, 11:53 AM) Really? I hadn't noticed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) [Hey, buddy!] Hey, 32! I haven't bothered with the official forums for a bit, not since before the silliness. And I'm not a playtester, so I can't comment there. I can say that what we do is in a vacuum: we're just given chapters to read over and proof, with no comment on where in the process the document is at (e.g., pre- or post- playtesting). I can say that the editors have been very gracious in listening to proofreader feedback, even when it involves some more extensive changes than simple proofreading. |
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Oct 20 2011, 03:37 AM
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#33
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Tilting at Windmills Group: Members Posts: 1,636 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Amarillo, TX, CAS Member No.: 388 |
QUOTE (Bull @ Oct 19 2011, 12:25 AM) Method: Just a note, consider doing a quick edit to your first post. Patrick has a a... quirk... in that he really, really hates his name being shortened. I've mellowed slightly, and I have had to modify my stance for people I've known since high school who actually knew me as Pat. That said, I still prefer not to have it shortened. QUOTE (Method @ Oct 19 2011, 04:00 AM) Doah! Fixed. I knew that too and was consciously aware of it the first time I used his name in my post. Sorry Patrick. It's all good. Wasn't done out of malice, just an accident. QUOTE (Shortstraw @ Oct 19 2011, 05:05 AM) This good stuff coming down the pipe - not asking for specifics but are we talking fluff, crunch or the whole salad? The whole salad. Bull's already talked about Artifacts Unbound, which I didn't have much to do with, but looks pretty awesome from the initial skim-through. There's another Horizon adventure in the pipeline, we're still yammering about a possible Street Legends Part Deux (almost pure fluff, but with stat blocks, and which I would love to participate in), a couple of plot/place books (which will have some crunch, but mostly working on fluff), more fiction (enhanced and otherwise, some of which I'm working on in another window as I type this). Like I said, things are looking up. |
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Oct 20 2011, 03:41 AM
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#34
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Oct 19 2011, 10:37 PM) more fiction (enhanced and otherwise, some of which I'm working on in another window as I type this). Like I said, things are looking up. Novels are a part of that "Otherwise"???*Bounces up and down excitedly* |
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Oct 20 2011, 04:09 AM
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#35
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Tilting at Windmills Group: Members Posts: 1,636 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Amarillo, TX, CAS Member No.: 388 |
QUOTE (CanRay @ Oct 19 2011, 10:41 PM) Novels are a part of that "Otherwise"??? Not sure, though I know that several of us have expressed an interest in writing novels. I, for one, would fare better with longer fiction, since I tend to ramble (if they hadn't told me to stop at 3K words, Martin de Vries could easily have been twice as long as he was in SL). Another anthology, a la Spells & Chrome, has been talked about, though no one's carved anything in stone about it to my knowledge. The enhanced fiction is the big thing right now; I've got a couple of enhanced pieces that I'm working on at the moment which will end up being something around 5K words or so of fiction each (as planned), followed by a couple or three stat blocks for the major characters in those stories. Hmmm, okay...just looked, and "Another Rainy Night" is currently sitting at 2700 words and I'm just getting started, so probably more than 5K plus characters, specialty gear, and other crunch. But novels probably aren't in play yet, and I'm not just being coy. I honestly know nothing about novels at this time. But I'd love some. |
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Oct 20 2011, 04:15 AM
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#36
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
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Oct 20 2011, 04:36 AM
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#37
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Street Doc Group: Admin Posts: 3,508 Joined: 2-March 04 From: Neverwhere Member No.: 6,114 |
QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Oct 19 2011, 10:37 PM) ...we're still yammering about a possible Street Legends Part Deux... I don't doubt this would be an enjoyable project for the freelancers, and might make an interesting read, but honestly I don't see how it would add anything to the game. I already have more Street Legends than I will ever use in my games in the first book (not to mention ye olde Primer Runners). Maybe its just me tho- I don't tend to make use of cannon NPCs all that much. |
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Oct 20 2011, 10:23 AM
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#38
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,183 Joined: 5-December 07 From: Lower UCAS, along the border Member No.: 14,507 |
More generic stats (which is partially why I'm tempted by Unbound!) and a quick n' easy system to make non-Prime Runner NPCs would be a god send.
Just sayin' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Oct 20 2011, 10:34 AM
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#39
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,700 Joined: 1-July 10 Member No.: 18,778 |
So far as I'm concerned, the new leaf is turning over when any new, high quality errata gets released, and turned over when the errata finally gets caught up to, say, products published at least 3 months ago.
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Oct 20 2011, 11:10 AM
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#40
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Running Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,003 Joined: 3-May 11 From: Brisbane Australia Member No.: 29,391 |
Aye some errata would be nice.
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Oct 20 2011, 11:20 AM
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#41
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,183 Joined: 5-December 07 From: Lower UCAS, along the border Member No.: 14,507 |
QUOTE (UmaroVI @ Oct 20 2011, 06:34 AM) So far as I'm concerned, the new leaf is turning over when any new, high quality errata gets released, and turned over when the errata finally gets caught up to, say, products published at least 3 months ago. Gotta agree with this too... |
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Oct 20 2011, 11:56 AM
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#42
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
If this is becoming a wish list I'll pass on pregenerated NPC's-I can do that on my own much better than anyone else can-and while I guess errata is okay frankly that could be done online, so I'd like to see more stuff (Drones, equipment, and gear.), we'd love a guide to North America that dealt with with some of the border cities between the NAN, UCAS, CAS, the Tir, etc...and I'd like the hacking and rigging rules simplified so that I don't spend five minutes flipping from page to page, book to book looking for a set of rules that should all be on one page.
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Oct 20 2011, 11:58 AM
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#43
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Running Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,003 Joined: 3-May 11 From: Brisbane Australia Member No.: 29,391 |
They are looking for errata pdf's to be posted on the CGL website not for bought books.
Edit: Also +1 on the low priority for Pre-gen NPC's. |
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Oct 20 2011, 12:00 PM
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#44
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
Yeah my comment was mostly directed at where I'd like the focus to be, sorry if it came across as I want errata hard copied.
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Oct 20 2011, 05:28 PM
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#45
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
QUOTE (3278 @ Oct 19 2011, 12:53 PM) Don't get me started. The state of playtesting for Shadowrun is deplorable, from everything I've seen. They do playtesting? |
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Oct 20 2011, 05:32 PM
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#46
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
QUOTE (kzt @ Oct 20 2011, 01:28 PM) They do playtesting? Oh yeah. |
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Oct 21 2011, 04:55 PM
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#47
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Wa, USA Member No.: 1,139 |
QUOTE (Method @ Oct 19 2011, 04:56 AM) And I am actually quite pleased to learn that people like Cain are now involved in proofreading (Cain: is this a recent development?). I've known Cain for a long time and as we all know/love/hate he's not one to let things slide if he finds something that bothers him. I think he's exactly the kind of guy we want in that type of role (proofreading, editing, play testing); not the brainless fanboys you find on some sites, or the disgruntled malcontents you find on others. Someone who, like me, loves the game and wants to see it improve, even if we don't necessarily like the creative direction its going. Other people can draw their own conclusions, but as far as I'm concerned if Cain has good things to say, thats saying something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I agree, even when Cain and I get on opposite sides of a horrible internet flame war... at the end of the day hes good people. QUOTE (kzt @ Oct 20 2011, 06:28 PM) They do playtesting? Yes but I think the RPG industry as a whole doesn't understand that you need folks from all styles of play to do playtesting. Optimizers and Thespians get ignored. |
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Oct 21 2011, 05:24 PM
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#48
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
We all have our own opinions.
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Oct 22 2011, 01:27 PM
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#49
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
QUOTE (kzt @ Oct 20 2011, 07:28 PM) They do playtesting? Signs point to yes... despite my group never getting back to that after The Great Debacle... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Oct 22 2011, 05:51 PM
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#50
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (tete @ Oct 21 2011, 08:55 AM) I agree, even when Cain and I get on opposite sides of a horrible internet flame war... at the end of the day hes good people. So are you, Tete. So are you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) QUOTE Yes but I think the RPG industry as a whole doesn't understand that you need folks from all styles of play to do playtesting. Optimizers and Thespians get ignored. This is where the Evil Empire, a la WOTC, actually does things right. They do serious destruction-testing on a lot of their stuff, and release betas to the public for even more testing before making an official release. Most of the playtesting I've done (for indie game developers) has amounted to: "Did you have fun?" "Were there any major issues?" "No, ok, thank you." There wasn't much room for detailed feedback, and nobody seemed willing to go back to start from scratch even if things were completely borked. Admittedly, this was just one or two sessions for indie designers, usually single-author projects. I can't understand how a corporate environment might alter that. |
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