Character Fights and turn breakdown Options

[StConstantine]

HEy so a while back i remember a guy that posted a bunch of things about like a street sam vs an adept where he broke down their stats and the rolls they made and stuff to try and determine who would win in a fight. I found that these things really helped me better understand the shadowrun rules for combat and better ways to build characters without having to slog through pages of confusing rules etc.

Now ive come back to the forum and cant find that topic which sucks. I was wondering if someone who knows where it is could link me it. On top of that, i was hoping people would be willing to post more things like that. Say, a rigger vs a technomancer in a bunker or something. Or two characters shooting at eachother from cover.

The general thing im looking for is character types (i.e. Technomancers or riggers or summoners etc.) and actual stats and rolls with step by step turn breakdown. (like the for example sections in the BBB)

If there is anyone willing to do this, could u please let me know? itd be greatly appreciated.

Ty

[Udoshi]

are you perhaps thinking of the Friday Night Fights?

[CanRay]

Wrong game, I know, but I miss the Friday Night Firefights and the Saturday Morning Body Lotto.

[TheOOB]

It's hard to do those, because depending on how you build characters can greatly influence how they play, you also need to know factors like how much karma and nuyen have they earned, for example, a street sami will usually beat an adept at creation, but like all awakened archtypes there is no glass ceiling for an adepts abilities, they keep getting more powerful.

There is also the condition of the fight. Direct one-on-one fights aren't the name of the game in Shadowrun, most good runners won't enter a fight unless they have the advantage, and many characters spend a good deal of resources ensuring they always get the surprise attack(which may be the single biggest factor that can win any fight).

[Kyrinthic]

check out 'Anatomy of a Shadowrun' from the runners toolkit, its a great way to get a feel of how the game interacts with the rules, with references and everything.

[StConstantine]

are you perhaps thinking of the Friday Night Fights?

Yes, Yes i am, thankyou

It's hard to do those, because depending on how you build characters can greatly influence how they play, you also need to know factors like how much karma and nuyen have they earned, for example, a street sami will usually beat an adept at creation, but like all awakened archtypes there is no glass ceiling for an adepts abilities, they keep getting more powerful.

I understand that, however things that most characters do, such as a drone rigger sending a couple of drones somewhere, or jumping in. Or a technomancer hacking said drones, they dont really vary that much between builds, really i just want to see some characters in action!

[StConstantine]

check out 'Anatomy of a Shadowrun' from the runners toolkit, its a great way to get a feel of how the game interacts with the rules, with references and everything.

Hey that looks really cool, ill have to try find a copy!

[thorya]

I think I'll give this a try. Out in the Barrens of Western C.A.S. a local crime lord likes to make sure disputes are settled in a semi civil manner. Two men (or women) face each other in the street. Each is given a Ruger Super Warhawk (loaded with 6 rounds) and a Survival Knife and told to stand 15 meters apart. A specially rigged, "Standoff Bot" sounds a buzzer. If either man draws before the buzzer sounds, the Standoff Bot unloads a clip on them. Once the Buzzer sounds, neither of them can leave the street until one of them is dead. Until then, anything goes. The dispute is settled in the winners favor.

A local Thug, "Smoker" has taken advantage of the system (and his tricked out cyberarm) to cheat liberally at cards and challenge any that accuse him of cheating.

[ Spoiler ]

Smoker
Ork
BOD 6
AGI 5 (7)
REA 4 (7)
STR 7
CHA 2
INT 3
LOG 3
WIL 3
Edge 3
Init: 10

Qualities:
High Pain Tolerance
Guts

Cyberware:
Obvious Cyber Arm (Customized AGI 9, BOD 6, Enhanced STR 3, Armor 2) AGI 9, BOD 6, STR 6
Wired Reflexes Rating 1
Reaction Enhancers (Rating 2)
Skillwires (Rating 3)
Dermal Plating (Rating 2)

Bioware:
Muscle Toner (Rating 1)
Muscle Aug (Rating 1)
Platelet Factory

Attack:
Pistol: Skill 5 + 2 Spec (Revolvers) + AGI 9 (Cyber arm) + 2 Skillwires = 18
6P, -2
Combat Knife: Skill 2 + 2 Spec (Knives) + AGI 9 (Cyber arm) = 13
5P, -1 AC

Defense:
Dodge: Skill 3 (Spec Ranged Combat) + Skillwires 2
Damage Resist: BOD 6 + Dermal Plating 2 + 8 Armor Jacket (6 Impact) + 2 Cyber arm = 18 (16)

He's already gunned down 7 men. A stranger named "Clint" has recently drifted into town on a tired old motorcycles. The man seems tough, but clearly lacks any cyberware and does not seem like much of a fighter just to look at.

[ Spoiler ]

BOD 4
AGI 5
REA 6 (+1 Cram)
STR 2
CHA 2
INT 3
LOG 2
WIL 4
EDG 5
MAG 6
Int: 10
(+1 pass Cram)

Qualities:
Adept
Exceptional Attribute (REA)
High Pain Tolerance (Rating 1)

Adept Powers:
Combat Sense 6
Improved Ability (Pistols) 3
Attribute Boost (AGI) 2
Mystic Armor 2

Attack:
Pistol: Skill 6 + 2 Spec (Revolvers) + AGI 5 + 3 Improved Ability = 16
6P, -2
Combat Knife: Skill 2 + AGI 5 = 7
2P, -1 AC

Defense:
Dodge: Skill 4 + Combat Sense 6
Damage Resist: BOD 4 + Mystic Armor 2 + 8 Armor Jacket (6 Impact) = 14 (12)

Both have quickdraw holsters.

Despite the warnings, he played Smoker in a game of cards. They're about to face off now. Smoker is talking trash. Clint has a steady look in his eyes. He seems to be focusing and a little disconnected from reality.

[ Spoiler ]

Clint uses his attribute boost.
Magic 6 + Attribute Boost 2 [6,3,5,2,6,4,4,1] = (3) hits, AGI goes to 8 for 6 Initiative rounds.(should magic have been added in here, I was not sure? Attribute Boost is useless if it's not. I'm a little fuzzy on how the using powerpoints actually changes the Magic score for an Adept, since Mystic Adepts have to divide between the two.)
Also, Clint is using cram.

The buzzer sounds. Smoker whips out his gun and fires before Clint can even draw. Clint takes a square hit to the chest, but his armored jacket and some luck spares his life. The bullet's stopped but the impact probably broke a rib and definitely left one hell of a mark. He barely even has time to register the hit before he's drawn and fired himself. The shot richochets off of Smoker's arm with no effect. Smoker laughs in contempt and takes a few strides toward Clint.

[ Spoiler ]

Initiative Round 1:
Smoker Initative:
10 Dice = [2,6,4,6,1,6,3,2,5,6] = 5 hits
Clint's Initiative:
10 Dice = [3,1,1,4,5,3,5,1,3,3] = 2 hits

Round 1, Pass 1:
Smoker goes first and attempts a quick draw.
Skill 5 + Spec 2 + Rea 7 + Skillsoft 2 = 16 [4,3,1,4,5,1,4,1,5,1,5,1,2,4,6,2] = 4 hits
Succeeds:
Smoker fires the Super Warhawk:
18 Dice - 1 range = 17 [6,6,6,3,6,1,5,1,5,2,4,4,4,5,5,5,3] = 9 hits
Clint Dodges:
Reaction 7 + Combat Sense 6 = 13 [5,1,5,3,1,3,3,6,4,4,1,5,3,2] = 4 hits
Clint is hit, Clint uses Edge [4/5] to reroll failures = 9 [1,2,4,2,3,3,2,4,]= 0 hits
Clint is hit.
Clint rolls to resist 11P damage (6P + 5 net hits > 10 armor - 2)
Bod 4 + Mystic Armor 2 + 8 armor - 2 AP = 12 [4,6,6,1,5,6,4,3,4,6,4] = 5 hits
Clint uses Edge [3/5] to reroll failures = 8 [1,4,5,3,2,6,5] = 3 hits
Clint takes 3P damage. No Wound Modifier (High pain tolerance 1).
Smoker walks forward 3 meters, taunting Clint. (12 meters apart)

Clint attempts a quick draw.
Skill 6 + Spec 2 + Rea 7 + Improved ability 3 = 18 [5,2,5,5,4,6,4,4,5,4,1,6,2,6,4,4,4,1] = 7 hits
Clint succeeds and fires at Smoker.
Skill 6 + Spec 2 + AGI 8 + Improved ability 3 - 1 range = 18 [1,3,5,5,6,2,3,4,6,3,3,3,3,3,2,4,4,2] = 4 hits
Smoker attempts to avoid the shot:
REA 7 = 7 [5,2,1,3,1,4,4] = 1 hit
Smoker is hit for 9S (6P + 3 net hits < 12 armor -2 AP ) and rolls to resist damage.
BOD 6 + Dermal Plating 2 + 8 Armor Jacket + cyber armor 2 - 2 AP = 16 [1,2,3,1,3,2,4,2,5,5,6,4,3,4,5,2,3] = 4 hits
Smoker uses edge [2/3] to reroll his failures = 12 [4,4,6,6,6,5,4,1,1,5,5,2] = 6 hits
Smoker soaks all the damage.
Clint Takes Aim for the rest of the pass.

Smoker continues to slowly close the distance. He fires a shot, but Clint moves with a surprising grace and with a bit of luck manages to get a thick section of jacket in line with the shot. The jacket takes most of the bullet's kick. It hurts, but it's nothing serious. Clint steadies and fires a shot. It catches Smoker in the neck. Smoker does not go down for the count, but blood pours down from the his neck and you can see him cringe in pain.

[ Spoiler ]

Round 1, Pass 2
Smoker shoots at Clint:
20- 1 range = 19 [2,6,2,1,6,1,4,3,4,3,1,2,4,3,6,2,2,1,1] = 3 hits
Smoker uses edge [1/3] to reroll misses = 16 [5,4,1,2,1,2,1,3,2,4,5,4,6,5,4,3] = 4 hits
7 hits
Clint dodges:
Avoid 13 [3,6,3,6,2,4,1,5,1,4,5,4,3] = 4 hits
Clint uses edge [2/5] to reroll misses = 9 [4,2,1,3,4,5,1,1,3] = 1 hits
Clint gets hit for 8S (6P + 2 for net hits = 8 armor + 2 mystic armor - 2 AP)
Bod 4 + Mystic Armor 2 + 8 armor - 2 AP = 12 [4,6,6,1,5,6,4,3,4,6] = 5 hits
Clint takes 3S damage. (3S, 3P, still no wound modifiers)
Smoker walks towards Clint laughing and readies his knife in his free hand. (another 3 meters, now 9 meters apart)

Clint shoots at Smoker:
Skill 6 + Spec 2 + AGI 8 + Improved ability 3 - 1 range + 1 take aim = 19 [2,6,5,3,6,5,5,3,2,6,2,1,3,5,3,5,6,6,4] = 10 hits
Clint uses edge to reroll misses [1/5] = 9 [2,2,2,6,6,5,3,4,1] = 3 hits
13 hits
Smoker attempts to avoid the shot:
REA 7 = 7 [3,3,6,3,1,3,2] = 1 hit
Smoker takes 18P (6P + 12 net hits < 12 armor - 2 AP)
Smoker rolls to resist damage:
BOD 6 + Dermal Plating 2 + 8 Armor Jacket + cyber armor 2 - 2 AP = 16 [3,5,1,4,1,5,2,4,1,2,,6,5,4,1,4,4] = 4 hits
Smoker uses edge [0/3] to reroll misses = 12 [6,1,2,3,5,2,6,5,3,3,2,3]= 4 hits
8 hits
Smoker takes 10P damage, reduce to 9P by the platelet factories. He has 3 physical damage boxes remaining and he has a wound modifier of -2 (High Pain tolerance 3).
(note, smoker should have been knocked down by that attack)

Smoker is infuriated and he charges dodging Clint's shot. It bounces off his arm, leaving a dent, but with no serious damage. Smoker plans to make it a knife fight and get Clint into melee to interrupt his shots.

[ Spoiler ]

Round 2, pass 1
Initiative
Smoker:
Init 10 - 2 wound modifier = 8 [6,2,4,2,3,6,2,6] = 3 hits. He goes on a count of 11.
Clint:
Init 10 = 10 [5,4,2,1,5,3,3,1,2,6] = 3 hits. He goes on a count of 13.

Clint goes first. He stands his ground and takes aim. Then he fires.
Skill 6 + Spec 2 + AGI 8 + Improved ability 3 - 1 range + 1 take aim = 19 [4,4,3,2,5,1,1,6,6,6,4,4,4,2,3,3,2,5,4] = 5 hits
Smoker attempts a full dodge:
REA 7 + Skill 3 + 2 Spec + Skillwires 2 - 2 wounds= 12 [2,4,3,2,4,5,3,4,3,6,6,2] = 3 hits
Smoker is hit for 8S (6P+2 net hits < 12 armor - 2 AP)
Smoker rolls to resist damage
BOD 6 + Dermal Plating 2 + 8 Armor Jacket + cyber armor 2 - 2 AP = 16 [2,1,5,4,6,3,6,1,4,5,4,6,6,2,1,5] = 7 hits
Smoker takes 1S damage.

Smoker closes the distance and has used his pass to dodge.

But Clint realizes that he does not stand a chance against Smoker up close and probably couldn't even scratch him with the combat knife. He pulls back and fires another shot at smoker from about 6 feet away. Smoker is still dodging and weaving to get close. The shot catches Smoker in the chest, but doesn't make it through his dermal plating. He shakes it off easily.

[ Spoiler ]

Round 2, pass 2:

Clint moves back 2 meters. Then he fires.
Skill 6 + Spec 2 + AGI 8 + Improved ability 3 = 19 [6,1,2,3,4,1,3,6,4,1,2,2,3,2,4,6,1,6,1] = 5 hits
Clint uses his edge [0/5] to reroll misses. = 14 [5,6,3,6,1,6,4,4,1,1,1,1,2,3] = 4 hits
9 hits
Smoker attempts a full dodge:
REA 7 + Skill 3 + 2 Spec + Skillwires 2 - 2 wounds= 12 [1,2,6,2,6,6,5,6,6,6,3,5] = 8 hits
Smoker is hit for 7S (6P+1 net hits < 12 armor - 2 AP)
Smoker rolls to resist damage
BOD 6 + Dermal Plating 2 + 8 Armor Jacket + cyber armor 2 - 2 AP = 16 [4,2,1,5,5,3,2,6,3,2,3,5,5,2,4,1] = 5 hits
Smoker takes 2S damage. (total of 3S, he is not bothered)

Smoker closes the distance and has used his pass to dodge.

Smoker recovers faster than Clint expects and sends a shot at Clint. Clint catches in the gut. His jacket, or maybe some other unseen force, stops it from penetrating, but it knocks the wind out of him. Clint knows his ammo is running low now. He aims for Smoker's exposed head, but Smoker anticipates and hits the deck. He scrabbles towards Clint like an animal, ducking and weaving. Clint keeps backing down the street away from him.

[ Spoiler ]

Round 3, pass 1
Initiative
Smoker:
Init 10 - 2 wound modifier = 8 [5,3,5,6,6,4,1,5,2,6] = 6 hits. He goes on a count of 14.
Clint:
Init 10 = 10 [4,3,2,4,2,1,6,3,2,2] = 1 hit. He goes on a count of 11.

Smoker shoots at Clint:
20- 2 wound = 18 [2,5,2,1,1,2,2,4,6,5,2,1,2,5,5,5,5,1] = 7 hits
Clint dodges:
Avoid 13 [6,1,2,4,5,4,5,5,3,6,1,1,2] = 5 hits
Clint gets hit for 8S (6P + 2 for net hits = 8 armor + 2 mystic armor - 2 AP)
Bod 4 + Mystic Armor 2 + 8 armor - 2 AP = 12 [3,1,3,6,6,3,3,4,6,1,5,4] = 4 hits
Clint takes 4S damage. (7S, 3P, -2 wound modifiers)
Smoker closes the distance again and initiates a melee.

Clint calls a shot at smoker's head:
Skill 6 + Spec 2 + AGI 8 + Improved ability 3 - 2 wound - 4 called shot - 3 melee +2 point blank = 12 [3,6,2,6,6,6,6,1,2,3,4,4] = 5 hits
Smoker attempts a full dodge:
REA 7 + Skill 3 + 2 Spec + Skillwires 2 - 2 wounds= 12 [6,5,3,1,1,4,4,1,5,5,6,6] = 6 hits
Clint misses.
Clint moves 10 meters away.

Smoker keeps pursuing Clint. He has a gleam in his eye. He knows soon the scrawny man is going to be out of bullets and then Smoker's going to have some real fun with a knife. Clint remains calm, taking aim to make sure his last shot counts.

[ Spoiler ]

Round 3, pass 2
Smoker used his action to dodge. He moves the rest of his movement to get 2 meters from Clint.

Clint takes both his simple actions to take aim.

Clint exhales and holds his gun steady as he fires for the last time. Smoker is weaving towards him, practically salivating at the thought of tearing up the scrawny man. His bullet catches Smoker dead center mass. He steps forward one more time. There is no visible blood, but he stumbles and falls at Clint's feet. The last shock was too much for him and he loses consciousness.

[ Spoiler ]

Initiative
Smoker:
Init 10 - 2 wound modifier = 8 [1,2,2,6,5,3,1,1] = 2 hits. He goes on a count of 10.
Clint:
Init 10 - 2 wound modifier = 8 [5,5,3,4,2,5,4,2] = 3 hit. He goes on a count of 11.

Clint takes aim 1 more time and fires:
Skill 6 + Spec 2 + AGI 8 + Improved ability 3 - 2 wound +3 take aim = 20 [3,6,3,2,5,4,4,2,5,4,4,2,5,4,5,2,6,6,6,4,3,3,4,4] = 7 hits
Smoker attempts a full dodge:
REA 7 + Skill 3 + 2 Spec + Skillwires 2 - 2 wounds= 12 [1,4,4,4,6,2,1,2,1,4,5,5] = 3 hits
Clint has 4 net hits.
Smoker rolls to resist 10S (6P + 4 net hits = 12 armor - 2 AP)
BOD 6 + Dermal Plating 2 + 8 Armor Jacket + cyber armor 2 - 2 AP = 16 [3,2,6,5,4,2,4,2,1,6,3,2,3,4,2,1] = 3 hits
Smoker takes 7S bringing his total to 10S. He is unconscious.

Clint walks to Smoker's fallen gun and picks it up. He points it at Smoker's head from point blank range and pulls the trigger. Smoker never gets up again. Clint stares down at the dead body and says, "We are like boxers, one never knows how much longer one has."

Clint walks back towards the bar they were playing cards at. He misses a step at the door when his magically fueled boost kicks off. He orders a whiskey and later that night rides off into the sunset.

[ Spoiler ]

Ends after 6 rounds. Willpower + Body to resist drain = 8 [6,1,2,4,1,4,2,3] = 1 hit
Takes 2S from drain.
Total 9S, 3P.

I realize I made a few mistakes. This took way longer than I expected though and I don't want to redo it.

Edit- changed to spoiler to make the post more compact.

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Skillwires don't add to a skill.

Other than that, good attempt, I'm not sure I agree with all the tactics, though.

[thorya]

Skillwires don't add to a skill.

Other than that, good attempt, I'm not sure I agree with all the tactics, though.

Shit you're right. I was thinking they worked the same way as reflex recorders. I knew there was a reason I never had them on my characters. Oh well, too late to change. I could have replaced with with a reflex recorder and it would have worked out the same.

[Brainpiercing7.6...]

Shit you're right. I was thinking they worked the same way as reflex recorders. I knew there was a reason I never had them on my characters. Oh well, too late to change. I could have replaced with with a reflex recorder and it would have worked out the same.

Ref recorder only adds 1 die, doesn't have ratings. (IIRC)

[thorya]

Ref recorder only adds 1 die, doesn't have ratings. (IIRC)

I was aware of that. Just that the one dice difference is less of a difference than two dice and Smoker could Take Aim with his other simple action, and get the same results he did for most of the fight.

[DrZaius]

HEy so a while back i remember a guy that posted a bunch of things about like a street sam vs an adept where he broke down their stats and the rolls they made and stuff to try and determine who would win in a fight. I found that these things really helped me better understand the shadowrun rules for combat and better ways to build characters without having to slog through pages of confusing rules etc.

Now ive come back to the forum and cant find that topic which sucks. I was wondering if someone who knows where it is could link me it. On top of that, i was hoping people would be willing to post more things like that. Say, a rigger vs a technomancer in a bunker or something. Or two characters shooting at eachother from cover.

The general thing im looking for is character types (i.e. Technomancers or riggers or summoners etc.) and actual stats and rolls with step by step turn breakdown. (like the for example sections in the BBB)

If there is anyone willing to do this, could u please let me know? itd be greatly appreciated.

Ty

Wow, thanks! I had a lot of fun with Friday Night Fights; it was just something I threw together because I was bored. I would say the only thing that was consistent with them was that I always managed to get a rule or two wrong (which the kind dumpshockers were nice enough to point out). I'm really glad you found them useful; happy shadowrunning.

EDIT: I'll add the caveat that they had very specific rules; i.e. what I considered "normal" boxing rules, meaning that it was somewhat fairer and probably allowed for some weaker builds to sneak by where otherwise they would have gotten creamed.
-DrZ

[Udoshi]

Ref recorder only adds 1 die, doesn't have ratings. (IIRC)

This is true, but you can stack a specific and a group for +2 to one. Handy!

[Saint Sithney]

This is true, but you can stack a specific and a group for +2 to one. Handy!

Skill or group, reflex recorder effects don't stack. Double training neurons? Not a thing.


As to the fight, nicely done. Something to remember for next time is that you get a +2 bonus to defense for running and a -2 DP penalty to shoot for the same. Also, with SS weapons and dice pools in the upper teens, it's generally best to call shots for damage every time unless you're dealing with a dodge monkey.

[thorya]

Skill or group, reflex recorder effects don't stack. Double training neurons? Not a thing.


As to the fight, nicely done. Something to remember for next time is that you get a +2 bonus to defense for running and a -2 DP penalty to shoot for the same. Also, with SS weapons and dice pools in the upper teens, it's generally best to call shots for damage every time unless you're dealing with a dodge monkey.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I forgot that I should have been calling shots for most of the combat and made some bad decisions based upon what I thought the characters would do, instead of what was actually the best move. I was thinking about doing a Force 6 spirit against a Street Sam at some point (not anytime soon, I've got too much going on). I would like to see a hacker versus a technomancer, but would botch that one horribly. I usually play a street sam or mage and count on other people to know the matrix rules.