Vatican, How does it measure up against corporations? Options

[Stormdrake]

In the Artifact series of modules Catalyst included a secret sect of priests attempting to recover an artifact that had been "stolen" from one of their ultra secret vaults. As I read it the sect was not the "Templers" or the order of St. Sylvester so was trying to scare up more info on them. This brought me to the question of just what does the Vatican have as resources? some things I can think of off the top of my head are;

*We know they are wealthy beyound the belief of anyone but a great dragon.
*They have thousands of dedicated employee's (priests of multiple orders).
*Significant influnce through the faithfull.
*Vaults of "forbidden" knowledge scattered around the world.
*Significant Matrix presence.
*Small army of Swiss mercenaries.

The more I think about it, you could write up the Catholic Church in Shadowrun as a corporation pretty easily. Has anyone?

[Caadium]

Don't overlook all of the business entities that they are already involved in in Real Life; entities that would only grow in the world of Shadowrun in my opinion.

One glaring example is health care. Most people have Catholic owned hospitals and healthcare in their area. Do you think they just roll over for Kaiser, or DocWagon (to bring it back to game setting).

I think you are one to something, they could definitely play with the big AAA Corps.

A game of runners that worked for the church (mystical threat hunting, reclaiming artifacts and info that needs to be buried, etc) could be a lot of fun.

[Nath]

The Catholic Church presence worldwide also constitutes a very efficient intelligence gathering network. When a local priest learn about something happening, even in the most remote areas of Africa or South America, the Vatican can have the info passed on long before the CIA and Reuters learn about it.

Shadowrun adds some new

The New Society of Jesus, or New Jesuits (introduced in the Aztlan sourcebook) protects the catholics in countries like Aztlan or Tir na nOg, where they are persecuted. That is, establishing safe houses to celebrate mass, escorting local bishops when they move around, and spying on the local security services to prevent roundups.

The Order of Saint Sylvester, or Sylvestrines, is dedicated to the use of magic. They run schools for awakened children, perform healing magic in Catholic health and relief operations, ban toxic and evil spirits, and clean the astral space where it is needed.

The New Order of the Temple, or New Templars (introduced in Threats 2) runs black ops. While the New Jesuits try to protect the Church where it is needed, the New Templars action is more about extending the Vatican influence by overthrowing governments, blackmailing influent people, assassinating enemies of the Church... In 2062, there was about 600 "knights" (all magically active priests) and 6000 "sergeants" (priests and deacons, most of them mundane). The knights use the Sylvestrines as a cover, and it is assumed the heads of the Order of Saint Sylvester also are Templars.

The Vigilia Evangelica (introduced in Loose Alliances) is even more secretive and compartmented than these groups. The Vigilia Evangelica have been existing for centuries, to gather and hide knowledge about the previous age of magic and evil forces, storing artifacts and writings in several hidden "Aquinae vaults". Its members can belong to any order of the Catholic Church, hiding their affiliation even from their own hierarchy (so yes, you can have a New Templar posing as a Sylvestrine while actually working for the Vigilia Evangelica).

The Black Lodge (from Threats) has been created by renegade Vigilial Evangelica members who pillaged the original Aquinae vault in the thirteenth century.

[CanRay]

So... Business as usual for the Catholics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Wakshaani]

http://index.rpg.net/pictures/show-thumbna...p;maxHeight=300

I'm just sayin'...

[ravensmuse]

Additional info - cut material from Loose Alliances - from Synner, regarding the Black Lodge:

The following section is a summary of what was dropped from the Game Info section of Loose Alliances on the Vigilia Evangelica. It remains unpublished and hence unofficial. I've been saving it in the hope of returning to the Vigilia and the Lodge some day but... I'm not sure I'll be able to revisit them anytime soon, so here's a peek at what I was thinking.

BLACK SECRET
One exception to the Vigilia Evangelica's rule of absolute secrecy is the Black Lodge, for the Lodge and the Vigilia share a secret history. Unbeknownst to anyone outside the order, the Lodge's founders were once the caretakers of one of the original Aquinae Vaults. Some time during the Middle Ages, a brief mana spike released something caged within one of the relics under the Vault's care. An ancient spirit was unleashed and insane from millennia of captivity went on a vengeful rampage, ravaging the abbey it was kept under, killing many of its Black Monks (Cistercians, yep that's where the "Black" in Black Lodge comes from) and Templar knight wardens. However, having depleted its energies, the entity was forced to take refuge in one of the survivors by possessing him and merging their minds as the spike began to ebb.

During convalescence the man became privy to flashes of insight, memories of a secret history of the world. Visions of an Age when the remnant spirit had been a rebel, a Prometheus who had challenged the immortal powers that had then ruled the world and had been brought low and chained for eternity. The monk dreamt that those powers had also survived into this world and were destined to one day return. The spirit weakened urged him to warn the others, to warn the world. Other survivors found enough confirmation of his visions in documents and pre-Classical relics at the Vault that they decided to take the revelations to Rome.

When the then-Pope granted audience and allowed the survivors to speak, the weakened spirit attempted to reveal itself to the Pontiff to warn him of the impending danger. The Pope hadn't realized this was a case of possession and ordered his guards to detain the possessed man and those brethren that had been exposed to him — so that the Inquisition and the Vigilia could perform an exorcism. The Papal Guard was unprepared for even the weakened spirit and his nigh-invulnerable host. Killing several guards, the man escaped using the spirit's power to influence his brethren to flee with him. The fugitives returned to the Melk vault* ahead of their pursuers and took everything they could, convinced that given time Rome would understand the true danger… meanwhile someone must prepare for the war that would follow the return of the Immortals. The escape cost the spirit much of its remaining energies and before falling semi-dormant it offered a Spirit Pact to its vessel, one that would ensure it would be survive to execute its revenge.

Meanwhile, the Vatican did not come round, and the Pope ordered the "traitors" hunted down and burned at the stake. The Vigilia, stung by the betrayal of its sacred duty, obliged bringing all its power to bear. The purges that spelled the end of the original Knights Templar are well known, the inquisition of many Cistercians less so. Despite their best efforts, the possessed and his brethren escaped with the help of friends in the regular clergy… escaped to plan the future, the spirit's pact keeping the man with the vision alive to become known as the Penultimate Master of the Black Lodge.

So it came to pass that the Black Lodge was ready for the return of magic. It has built its own far-reaching shadowy network of influence, fear and power in preparation for a shadow war against the returning Powers. It has manipulated and maneuvered its pawns and agents into positions of power and influence in the highest circles of political, corporate, and of course thaumaturgic power—after all fire can be fought with fire. It has crushed opposition and innocents in its path to power, seeing them as lesser casualties and collateral damage in the great war to come.

Unfortunately for the Lodge, the true story of the schism with the Vigilia has become buried in centuries of bad blood and enemity. Long-forgotten the reason for the Lodge's "treason" all that remains is the memory of the betrayal, to the point that the Vigilia and the Church continue to hunt down the Lodge wherever they come upon its interests — and remain fearful that the Lodge may make a move for one of the remaining Aquinae Vaults and the secrets they harbor.

* The references to the destruction of Melk abbey (both here and in Loose Alliances) are historical, but they're also a tip of the hat to one of my favorite books, one which was inspirational for a lot of the material on the Vigilia.

[Stormdrake]

Thank you All,
Especially ravenmuse as that was the information I was looking for. Could not remember the name of the Vigilia Evangelica's or the Black Lodge. Am going to try and write up the Roman Catholic Church as a mega and will post it for comment.

[Dr.Rockso]

Look forward to seeing it.

[ShadowJackal]

Thank you All,
Especially ravenmuse as that was the information I was looking for. Could not remember the name of the Vigilia Evangelica's or the Black Lodge. Am going to try and write up the Roman Catholic Church as a mega and will post it for comment.

This is thoroughly relevant to my interests.

[ggodo]

So... Business as usual for the Catholics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Yeah, pretty much, actually. It's amazing that something so factionalized is ever seen as a united front.

[Method]

I'm currently working on a Missions character who was a Syvestrine magician sent to Seattle by the New Templars to conduct covert operations against Aztechnology. He got blow'd up while guarding an archbishop at a political rally in support of the Yucatan rebellion and now he's a little crazy... well a lot crazy actually. Should be a lot of fun to play.

[Stormdrake]

Is the name of the Pope in 2072 mentioned in any of the recent books?

[Paul]

I swear I saw that somewhere. If someone doesn't beat to the punch I'll try to look it up.

[MK Ultra]

I am sure there is information in Shadows of Europe - might be dated since the crash, but I don´t remember reading anything in Almanach..

[Daylen]

I imagine Catholics will be much unchanged.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

[Nath]

According to the Sixth World Almanac, John XXV, since 2013. He is now 108 years old.

[CanRay]

Leonization is a wonderful thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Paul]

According to the Sixth World Almanac, John XXV, since 2013. He is now 108 years old.

Scooped. Damn it.

[Sengir]

Leonization is a wonderful thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Assuming he needs such treatment...

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Assuming he needs such treatment...

As much as the catholics might have embraced the other metahumans faster than other religions, I don't see them promoting them to the position of Cardinals, imagine to elect one as Pope.

[Daylen]

As much as the catholics might have embraced the other metahumans faster than other religions, I don't see them promoting them to the position of Cardinals, imagine to elect one as Pope.

Who says the reason leonization is not needed has to do with metas?

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Zo...by_Juan_Doe.jpg

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Hehe, again, I don't think the catholics would like a zombie or even an Infected as Pope, eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ would have a WHOLE NEW MEANING!

[HunterHerne]

Hehe, again, I don't think the catholics would like a zombie or even an Infected as Pope, eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ would have a WHOLE NEW MEANING!

I'm thinking more along the lines of a Spirit Pact, specifically, a formula pact, which grants Immunity to Age. Now what would be powerful enough to be allowed to make a formula pact with the Pope?

Edit: And it could have been the catalyst for the whole switcharound the Catholics did as far as magic being evil.

[Daylen]

Hehe, again, I don't think the catholics would like a zombie or even an Infected as Pope, eating the body and drinking the blood of Christ would have a WHOLE NEW MEANING!

I take it you assume most would know? What fun would that be?

[Sengir]

As much as the catholics might have embraced the other metahumans faster than other religions, I don't see them promoting them to the position of Cardinals, imagine to elect one as Pope.

Well, not consciously (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But if the Pope was born a spike baby his parents probably had the minor congenital abnormality with his ears corrected and everybody is none the wiser...