Solid Tires Options

[Christian Lafay]

You can also aim for wood gas.

I was unaware of that option till I watched the TV show The Colony. Blew. My. Mind.

[EKBT81]

I was unaware of that option till I watched the TV show The Colony. Blew. My. Mind.

Wood gas was used extensively over here in Europe during WW2 and the years immediately after. I guess it'd be a decent option for countries like Amazonia or the Tirs with magically induced excessive wood growth.

[Christian Lafay]

Wood gas was used extensively over here in Europe during WW2 and the years immediately after. I guess it'd be a decent option for countries like Amazonia or the Tirs with magically induced excessive wood growth.

Bringing another world in (I like tech, sue me) I think that there would be some way to find a way to increase the growth rate of trees like in Eureka. Or at least finding a way of using Kudzu for wood gas.

[hobgoblin]

Wood gas was used extensively over here in Europe during WW2 and the years immediately after. I guess it'd be a decent option for countries like Amazonia or the Tirs with magically induced excessive wood growth.

Yep, its a repeated story here in Norway from the occupation years. Some creative local or other would install what looked like a boiler on the back of their truck and run it on wood. Temperamental as hell, but allowed him to get things done even tho there was fuel rationing. I think i read about a couple of guys that did a drive into Sweden and back recently using a more recent car they had converted. Btw, i think some are converting their larger diesel cars into running on LPG these days. There is also a uptake of the same in ferries and buses here in Norway.

[Tech_Rat]

Yep, its a repeated story here in Norway from the occupation years. Some creative local or other would install what looked like a boiler on the back of their truck and run it on wood. Temperamental as hell, but allowed him to get things done even tho there was fuel rationing. I think i read about a couple of guys that did a drive into Sweden and back recently using a more recent car they had converted. Btw, i think some are converting their larger diesel cars into running on LPG these days. There is also a uptake of the same in ferries and buses here in Norway.

LPG? Liquid Propane Gas? If so, Some parts of the states are doing that. Nevada, California(can't wait until they break off into Cal-Free.), Utah, Colorado, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. If it isn't all LPG, then it's CNG(Compressed Natural Gas).

[CanRay]

If you ever get the chance to get it back, and it still needs work, I wouldn't mind helping you out with it. Who knows. I may even run a game for you to finally play.

Just, no Binky. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

There's no chance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Tech_Rat]

There's no chance. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Ah. I'm sorry to hear that.

[Saint Hallow]

How is the current efficiency of today's modern solar panels in converting light to electricity for hybrid/electric vehicles?

[Christian Lafay]

How is the current efficiency of today's modern solar panels in converting light to electricity for hybrid/electric vehicles?

I remembering reading an article about someone turning their Tesla Roadster into a disco ball of solar panels. It wasn't infinite energy by any stretch of the imagination but it did increase the distance between charges drastically. Will see if my Google-Fu is still in top shape.

[Tech_Rat]

From what I remember, we were at an approximate efficiency of 40% in 2007. We may be as high as 70% right now, if I'm not mistaken(Though I highly believe I am).

[3278]

Commercial solar panels run in the 10 - 15 percent range, with a few standouts just below 20 percent. Lab panels reach 40 percent or higher, but they're either too expensive or otherwise impractical for widespread use...for now.

That said, even with 100 percent efficiency and covering the entire car in solar panels, you couldn't produce enough motive force to propel a modern car under the conditions it actually gets used: too much weight and not enough light. Presumably in Shadowrun, the solution - since I don't think they've changed the output of the sun - has been materials technology directed toward weight savings.

[Dahrken]

Even with a lot of weight saving I simply don't think a realistic car could operate on sun energy alone.

Iin ideal conditions (equator at high noon and clear sky) the power brought by the sun is about 1 kW/square meter. Assuming a car size of 6x2 meters (twleve square meter collection area) and 50% conversion, this mean the sun brings you a maximum power of roughly 8 hp...

[hobgoblin]

LPG? Liquid Propane Gas? If so, Some parts of the states are doing that. Nevada, California(can't wait until they break off into Cal-Free.), Utah, Colorado, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. If it isn't all LPG, then it's CNG(Compressed Natural Gas).

Yep, tho my understanding of the P was Petroleum. Still, checking the pedia it seems it is all the same: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquefied_petroleum_gas

[hobgoblin]

On the solar panel issue, i suspect we are looking at the idea that people will have less stamina then the car. As in, people will want to pit stop for food and such, and while doing that the car is sitting in the sun filling up whatever it is using to store energy.

[Christian Lafay]

More future tech question(s). Ever seen the Perfect Patch infomercials? They throw this chia-pet crap onto concrete and grow grass. I imagine an eco-terrorists walking around with a rig a bit like the goo guns from Ghostbusters covering all the run down buildings and streets with the crap.

[CanRay]

And the city gardeners shooting them for making them mow even more lawns. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Christian Lafay]

The wouldn't be terrorists if they weren't making someone's lives worse. Even gardeners.

[Daylen]

From what I remember, we were at an approximate efficiency of 40% in 2007. We may be as high as 70% right now, if I'm not mistaken(Though I highly believe I am).

not even close, even if difficulty scaled linearly we would not be that far along. The record is barely past 40%.

[Lindt]

Back to the idea of a solid tire.

Weight: The BIG daddy. A 16" tire and rim weight approx. 45 lbs. Unsprung weight (mass that is on the road side of the suspension system) is a huge contributor to handling issues. A 18" ATX rim and a 'solid' tire (lets assume a solid tire only weights 3x as much as normal) would weight 88 lbs. An increase of 172 lbs over 4 wheels. The web site TireRack noticed a handling, ride, economy and performance difference with a 16 lb difference.
Strangely, the wikipedia article is very good on the topic of tire physics. Go check it out.

[3278]

...lets assume a solid tire only weights 3x as much as normal...

Where's this figure from?

[Lindt]

Open assumption. Odds are its even more. I was just picking a number to do my math with.

[Draco18s]

The density of air at sea level is about 1.2 kg/m^3
The density of Rubber, soft commercial is 1100 kg/m^3

Yeah, I'd say that rubber weighs at least three times that of air (air is generally pumped to about 60 PSI, so even figuring that brings the density up to 144 kg/m^3, that brings rubber up to being 7 times the weight for the same volume).

[3278]

Open assumption. Odds are its even more. I was just picking a number to do my math with.

The calculation you're doing, though, seems to be comparing modern commercial tires with what's basically a modern commercial tire so low-profile that there's no pneumatic pocket in it. NPTs are seldom like this, and only in the lowest-speed applications: rubber [or what we call "rubber" when we put it in a tire] can't dissipate heat quickly enough when it's laid in a layer that thick, indeed much of the reason why all passenger tires aren't NPTs.

I guess my point is: why "pick a number to do math with?" The number's almost certainly crazy wrong, so your math's going to end up being at least as crazy wrong. [edit: Which is still short exactly one explanation of why I chose to pedantically interrupt you, sorry. Let me give that a shot. The thing is, NPT technology in Shadowrun is so far out there in terms of NPT technology today that our common sense ideas (read: assumptions) are just completely incorrect. Now, that's always true in Shadowrun, so it's inescapable, but putting precise numbers to something that's not even close to precise is a good way to come to a terrible conclusion. It seems to me like, if you really want NPTs in Shadowrun [not sure why] that aren't Smart Wheels, you should be prepared to be vague: "NPTs will probably be at least a little heavier, and unsprung mass is a killer on handling, and weight is a killer on acceleration and braking. How about a -1 Handling, and some kind of penalty to Acceleration and top speed (due to heat dissipation)?" In short, I'm not saying your idea is wrong, just that inventing numbers to have numbers generally isn't that productive.]

The density of air at sea level is about 1.2 kg/m^3
The density of Rubber, soft commercial is 1100 kg/m^3

Maybe this is a common misconception, then. NPTs aren't just "tires with the air replaced with rubber." [Or, as above, "tires with the air replaced with more rim," which is a better solution, but still not practical.] There are a number of different NPT designs, and none of them [for automobiles] is just a solid blob of rubber on a car rim. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Whatever Shadowrun NPT designs would be, they're almost certainly not going to involve "rubber, soft commercial," or even its equivalent. [Of course, Shadowrun has no need for NPTs, since its run-flat tires are effectively NPTs anyway, but...]

...air is generally pumped to about 60 PSI...

In a passenger car tire? I don't put 60 psi in my racing tires! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Draco18s]

</talking out of my ass>

In any case, someone was talking about solid rubber tires, which is what I was trying to respond to.

And if 60 PSI is too high (I don't know what goes in my tires, it's been a while since I looked as I don't have to do it often and there's no point in remembering as a) is written on the tire and b) tends to vary from tire to tire) then it's an extreme example intended to show a relationship.

[3278]

I don't know what goes in my tires, it's been a while since I looked as I don't have to do it often and there's no point in remembering as a) is written on the tire and b) tends to vary from tire to tire...

Typically it's 30-35 psi, but you shouldn't go with what's on the tire: what's on the tire is the maximum safe PSI for that particular tire. Tire inflation is dependent upon car factors more than tire factors, so you should always go with what's in the book over what's on the tire.* Of course, that's only a starting point, as your intended usage, vehicle load, and system wear will all influence the best inflation for your particular circumstance. Just whatever you do, don't inflate to what's on the tire and go for that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I used to do that, and while it got me great mileage and incredible grip in the corners, it also gave me a too-firm ride and dangerously uneven tire wear. Blew out a 50 psi racing tire at 80mph, on a public interstate. That kind of driving really wakes a fella up.

*Unless you're running a different tire size than originally specified for the vehicle, in which case I recommend starting at 32 and working your way in whatever direction your usage and load patterns require.

edit: I totally get that you were just using the air-to-rubber comparison as an extreme example. I've no fault with your maths, or your example, only with the idea that inspired it, and that's not yours. No worries.