This seems like somewhat of an oversight but that's perhaps due to my abysmal automotive knowledge.

I'm wondering why there aren't solid tires available for cars in Shadowrun. It seems like it would be a cheap way to have tires that cant really get shot up. This would probably effect the speed and handling of the car, but it seems odd to not have them.

who shoots tires? vehicles keep going with shot tires. Doesn't everyone just shoot the driver or engine?

Depending how fast a vehicle is and the terrain, it could flip over if one of its tires is shot. Besides, it assumes you are trying to stop an armored car. Such cars can only be stopped by shootings its tires or pretty much destroying the car.

From my understanding a solid tire would reduce the quality of the ride. Most of the smoothness is from the suspension absorbing whatever roughness that cushion of air the tire has doesn't negate. A solid tire would impart all of that roughness to the suspension and thereby the driver. At least that is my understanding.

Keep in mind that in some cases a transport also needs to jostle the cargo as little as possible.


Now as far as stopping a vehicle, if taking out the tires don't work there is always zapper strips.

Whatever the realism, shooting tires is a mechanic in SR. I like it, myself.

I can see this as another vehicle tire option (alongside smart tires, etc.). Increases penalties for anything like shooting from the vehicle, reduce Handling, etc.

Or just use runflat tires. Usually the simplist solution is the best one.

-D

For all intents and purposes, this is what "run-flat tires" in previous editions of Shadowrun were [are they not in SR4?]; some were referred to as solid in the meta-text, others as self-sealing, but they all did roughly the same thing. No idea why all tires in SR4 aren't assumed to be run-flat, the way all glass is assumed to be polarized and all ammo caseless, unless there's some reason to the contrary.

I describe Run-Flat Tires as being like Road Wheels on tanks (From what I understand, remember, idiot Civvie with books here!), hard rubber-covered rims that let you drive a bit longer, until you can change over to the "Doughnut" (Or full-sized spare if you bought one.).

I ruled in my game that all tires in Shadowrun are self-sealing to some ability. A nail won't ruin a new set of tires now, at least. Yeah, you'd sell more tires, but the cost of raw materials is getting higher and higher, so the ROI is getting worse and worse, and people wouldn't be able to afford new tires, sell their car, and ride the bus. Major loss of potential income.

A few years ago the made honeycomb tires that were supposed to be the end-all-be-all of tires. Smooth ride, lots of cushion, one of the strongest structures possible, and doesn't give a damn about nails. Wonder why they never reached mass production.

Either individual cost, or tire companies didn't want them to come out as there'd be less replacements needed as well.

Don't forget, they build cars to break now. Which annoys the hell out of me, even a medium sedan will only wound a moose at highway speeds. Not a good situation to be in, a wounded and pissed off animal, and a car that does NOT work.

Reminds me of Warehouse 13. Had a car made that was powered by two people holding onto it. Apparently Ford didn't like it cause oil made the cars break down quicker.

Or Nikola Tesla who wanted to turn the planet into a giant battery, allowing anyone to use any electrical/electronic device just by putting a spike into the ground. Westinghouse (His supporter/partner at the time) vetoed the idea when he couldn't figure out a way to charge people for the energy they used.

Which is weird since Westinghouse was so behind Tesla on so many things. Up to even getting his name turned into a verb by Edison, that thankfully didn't stick cause it sounds stupid. But I DO love how Nikola had his place lit up with bulbs just laying around.

Lots of Teslas ideas sounded stupid. They worked, however. Westinghouse, however, was a businessman. And more honest than most of the people Nikola had to deal with in his life.

Let's see...

****HOMEBREW****
Solid Rubber Tires:
:nuyen:500
The wheels of the vehicle have the tires built directly on to them. They are dipped in rubber, belted, then dipped again. Finally, they have the tread pattern carved in.
Due to the lack of air in the tires, it provides a rougher ride, resulting in a -2DP penalty to certain skills(GM's discretion. Recommend skills such as first aid, armorer, etc.). Due to the nature of the wheels, handling is improved by +1 on smooth, clear roads, representing the lack of 'give' a sidewall would normally have in an inflated tire. However, on any rough surfaces(even poorly paved roads, or ones prone to a lot of potholes), a -1DP penalty is applied, representing the 'jerk' and 'pull' on the system. These tires will never go flat, as there is no air. When they are replaced, they must be carved off of the rim, and re-dipped. This is included in the price.

The cost is increased from other, comparable tires due to the construction techniques necessitated by the design.
****HOMEBREW****

Like DMiller said, run-flat tires, no need for arbitary houserules or whatever.

Talking about redundancy and making sure companies can profit from things, the biggest scam EVER was probably called the Prohibition. When mass-produced cars first hit the market, the oil companies wanted to make sure people ran their cars on gasoline rather than alcohol. Of course, the fact that Rockerfeller was a teetotaler as well as an oil barron made his push for the ban on alcohol a no-brainer ...

Which also got us a president, who was assassinated.

Why on earth would they improve Handling anywhere, Tech_Rat?

there are mulitpule ways that run flat tyres can work, some of the eiser to explain ones are:
1: they are connected to a air hose which can pump air into the tyre faster then the hole can let the air out
2: there is another smaller tyre inside of the bigger one

The existing run-flat solutions are pretty good ones and make for logical jumping-off points for SR's runflats. Similarly, there are a lot of existing airless tire [NPT] designs that could reasonably inform people trying to design NPTs for Shadowrun.

Well in real life there is the experimental Tweel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweel

I just with the Segway Centaur had actually made it to production: http://www.gizmag.com/go/3319/

I agree that we can assume some kind of 'foam' run-flats in SR4. I just don't think a solid tire would be in any way problematic to introduce into Socinus' own game, though. It's not a balance issue, therefore it's fine. Some people *want* weird (and sometimes deficient) solutions in their games.

You're also going to theoretically suffer a pretty significant weight increase. Rubber isn't exactly the lightest of substances. There's a reason low profile tires are popular among young street racers, better handling and weight reduction, but the smaller air chamber provides a much rougher ride and also blows out *MUCH* easier than you might expect. People will do anything to reduce weight of their vehicle, mainly carbon fiber all over the place (Even down to aluminum headers, thought that was mildly ignorant myself but whatever.) . Sure, you have issues with having a tire shot out but if I'm adding several hundred pounds to my car with solid tires I'm going to be going a hell of a lot slower and riding a hell of a lot rougher than a classic tire.

I'd never risk adding the loss in handling or the extra weight. Steel belted tires are a good option but the lighter and more agile you are, the faster you can get away from someone shooting a gun at your tires. But that's just my opinion.

For what it's worth, I've always just assumed that SR4 run-flats were NPTs, because they don't degrade. Any foam or self-supporting solution is eventually going to break down; otherwise the tire would just be foam or self-support all the time. Any tire that can take damage and continue to be used without degradation has to be self-healing and repressurizing, or else self-healing and solid. [And self-healing, in either case, can be pretty low-tech: a dart board is "self-healing," in this context.] I think it's not at all unlikely we'll have cracked high-speed, low-cost NPTs by 2070 - it's more a question of materials technology than anything - so I've just assumed that to be the case. Which isn't to say it's ever once come up in a game I've been at. When we "blow out" a tire, I always imagine we've done damage to the NPT such that it cannot roll true.

Not for nothing, but Shadowrun has tires that use radar terrain-mapping to alter the shape of the tire to best match the surface, so I've pretty much just given up on things like flat tires, at least on "modern" vehicles. An unrestored classic, yeah. But I think run-flats [by real-world definition] will probably be standard, in one form or another, by 2030, and some kind of self-healing never-blows solution starting to become common by 2060, so I just apply my expectations to Shadowrun.

Oh man, those were good times back home, let me tell you! As for making cars run on Petrol... Heh. According to legend, one Rumrunner in my family tree ran himself and his car on the same hooch.

3278, *shrug*. Nothing in SR4 degrades. But I didn't mean the tech had to be foam, but only that they can't 'blow'.

A car can run on anything mildly combustible with enough ingenuity.

Hmmm? I'm not following you here.

Some 'runners are still driving the 2050 C-N Jackrabbit they started with. On the same tires. No oil changes. And so on.

I think Rudolf Diesel made the claim that his engine could run on coal dust back in the day...

Clearly he didn't have enough ingenuity

He argued that they can't be foam because they don't degrade. … Nothing degrades in SR4, except maybe Programs.

Coal Oil, maybe?

After seeing a diesel engine running off of a pig I'll believe damn near anything. Rudolf Diesel clearly made a dark bargain with a powerful force.

Live pig, or dead pig?

Well it's pig fat, so it depends on how sadistic you are....

Just science.

Oh, wait, that is The Devil according to some people. Never mind.

Thinking of science in 'DA FOO-TURE I would think that things like solar panels and home methane plants would be both more efficient and cheaper. That's the stuff I need for my character's "Revive Glow City" personal mission.

Yeah, but those would cut into profits of the Megas that own power plants, and thus would be killed.

Also, how much sun do you think Seattle gets? (Yeah yeah, I know, other places to 'Run.). And the dangers of Methane can be proven with just a simple Outhouse and some spin doctoring. Better to have nice, safe, proven Fission and Fusion Energy Sources. And the expensive, but green, Geo-Thermal Taps, which will provide energy requirements for everyone at affordable prices.

A Schrödinger's pig, perhaps?

Thunderdome anyone?

Possibly last weird thought in this thread. Using fat for diesel fuel... Would free liposuction for America be a good thing?

Doubtful when the meat industry had as much byproduct as it does.

Ya know, as smelly as it may be... It could work... Can't be any worse than biodiesel.

Can we get BEYOND Thunderdome, please. I really want another movie. Which is used in various areas as well. Animal fat is full of nitrates, and the US is in a war at the moment...Probably better in some ways. Diesel Engines are the perfect thing for the Post Apocalypse, they'll run on damned near anything with very little work, and are exceptionally reliable. Also, they're usually high torque jobs so you can haul a lot as well.

Humanity's reliance on Petroleum Products is greed and directed stupidity, pure and simple. I loved how Shadowrun made Petrochem items rare, and the Hybrid Everything kind of takes away from the dystopia a bit for me. But, then again, that's just in major cities, so... Then again, there's brushfire wars over a single oil well in some parts of the world, so... And I can see "Privateer" fleets fighting over oil wells in International Waters...

Hmmmmmm... Deadly Waters just started giving me more ideas.

The new, high pressure direct injection diesels are much more sensitive to what you feed them. That's the price of their improved economy and power.

You can also aim for wood gas.

Very True. Take a pre-2006 Diesel vehicle in the states. You go in to any grocery store, buy a bunch of veggie oil, and run the truck off of that. I had a late nineties diesel car when I worked at a chinese delivery joint. The owners/my bosses paid a guy $100 a week to take all the waste cooking oil. I offered to take it off their hands for $25 a week. Used that money and my tips to buy a siphon pump and 50 gallon plastic barrel. Made a filter process in my garage. Didn't pay for fuel for 6 months.



Very true. Downside is, when you couple that with the ULSD we use in the states now, the seals and such wear out sooner. Less sulfur/oil product, less lubricity. Less Lube>More wear.

The more I hear about modern vehicles, the more I hate the fact that I sold Dad's car... Despite the fact that it was in Ontario and I have no mechanical skills to repair it.

If you ever get the chance to get it back, and it still needs work, I wouldn't mind helping you out with it. Who knows. I may even run a game for you to finally play.

Just, no Binky.