Help creating a face, Debating a lot on some of it Options

[MortVent]

Metatype: I love playing elves for the most part, but thinking of doing an orc this time

Stats: one reason for loving orc, even maxed out charisma (or just 4) I can have beefy stats across the board allowing for slipping into alternate roles

Gear: I have decided to skip any augmentations at creation, focusing on skills and misc equipment

Positive qualities: No magic, and looking at Trustworthy II, Perception II which eats up 30 BP but gives bonuses to the character's core skills. Leaning towards Guts as the last 5 pts if an orc, and none if an elf

Negative qualities : still working out what would be good based on a bit of abandonment issues, some mental quirks (phobias and the like)

Skills: going for group level 4 in influence, 4 in intimidation, and 4 in perception. Computer and data search at 3 and then work on the rest a bit after finalizing the rest.

Thinking of backgrounds:
Elf - Corporate contracter companion/aide (aka hired to provide secretary services as well as look pretty on the arm of visiting execs who can't bring along their own secretaries)

Orc - Street negotiator / messenger (hired to help settle disputes between groups or to handle messages between them when there are no real normal channels. EX: Hired by a triad to get a concession from the mafia in exchange for information or nuyen. Or hired to get item A to point B when they can't rely on normal channels [kinda hard for an Ancient to give his friend in Cutter turf a package])

contacts and gear will of course vary by origin


Redone working of the orc idea to fit new direction: (still doing rough draft of elf)

Ishtar Haskins "Fancy"

Ork (20)

Attributes (195 + 20)

[ Spoiler ]

B 4
A 3
R 3
S 3
C 5 (maxed)
I 4
L 4
W 5

Edge 3

qualities (0 net)

[ Spoiler ]

Positive:
Guts (5)
Perceptive II (10)
Trustworthy II (20)

Negative:
Prejudice - outspoken, specific (10) [Lone Star Cops]
Sensative Neural System (5)
Phobia - Moderate, Uncommon (15) [being alone]
Allergy - Mild, Uncommon (5) [gold, psychosomatic]

Active skills (142)

[ Spoiler ]

Influence Group 4
Intimidation 4
Perception 4
Computer 3
Data Search 2
Gymnastics 1
* Dancing +2
Pilot Ground Craft 3
* Wheeled +2
Dodge 3
Pistols 3
Unarmed Combat 1
* Martial Arts +2

Knowledge skills (24 free)

[ Spoiler ]

LG - English N
LG - Or'zet 3
LG - Japanese 3
Gang ID 3
Auto Mechanics 2
Safe Houses 2
Local Area Knowledge 2
Underworld Politics 3
Dance Clubs 3
Industrial Music 3

Contacts:(18)

[ Spoiler ]

Fixer 3/2
Street Doc 1/1
Street Shaman 1/4
club owner 1/2
Mechanic 1/2

Resources (5): 25000

[Glyph]

I'm not sure maxing out Charisma is really worth it. I'm not as hardcore about gearing characters towards post char-gen advancement as others. I have no problem getting a few specializations to start with, for example. But still, I look at 25 Build Points now, versus 25 Karma later, and cringe a bit. Especially with a cap of 200 Build points in core Attributes at char-gen - that last point of Charisma could be three points of something else.

Overall, generalists who are slightly above average at most things are not very cost-effective, and being an unaugmented mundane compounds the problem. He would be okay in either a low-powered campaign, one where he is the lone face type in the group, or one where the players are paid well (assuming he spends his money on augmentations).

[Ryu]

Metatype Ork is a good choice. I don´t see truly beefy stats however. Filling alternate roles will only be possible in a low-power campaign. The main cause is your lack of augmentation.

Qualities: Perceptive is a favourite of mine, Guts is a style choice with your Composure Test pool. Thrustworthy is paying 20 BP for "Influence Group +1". Given your choice of not getting Augmented playing a low-magic (2) Social Adept will give you much more bang per BP. And I would still prefer cyber over that.

Skillset: The combat part will not work well. You are about an even match for a single LoneStar squad member. Branching out in the direction of combat will require ware OR being better equipped than the opposition. Branching out into hacking is also out - a mook will have many more dice than you yourself.


If you choose "unaugmented mundane", Elf is the better choice. Softmax Charisma (-15 + 20), don´t get Thrustworthy (-20), keep Body at 3 and Strength at 2 (30, but Agi is cheaper). 5 BP left, higher CHA-based pools.

[Makki]

how can you forget First Impression ?!

[Error]

Nice to see someone building a Face thats not aiming for a Pornomancer. I'd actually thought the thread had escaped the mention of one completely, then I noticed Makki's signature line. Straight from the old Pornomancer thread IIRC.

Personally, I don't see much issue with weighing the character against the rest of the group. Play the concept you enjoy more than trying to build a perfect archetype. Players doing so almost always have more fun playing the character they want to play, even if dice pools suffer a bit for it. The only real issue, like Glyph brought up is if there are other characters who aren't nominally face characters in the party who have superior dice pools in social skills than this character.

I think the idea of an Ork face just appeals to me. Heh, now I'm envisioning a troll negotiator realizing his/her sweet talking isn't working and having to resort (sigh) to more tried and true methods (while cracking his/her knuckles).

[MortVent]

part of the problem with die pools is early on only. Groups only go to 4, but as they add more it gets better. But they have those avg dice pools in all social skills vs one or two

thinking of dropping trustworthy for exceptional attribute(charisma). Gives back 15bp to dump into skills/attributes (with some shuffling can be body 5 and drop the rest into skills by decreasing one of the contacts)

Most of my characters start out organic vs focused. Time/karma/nuyen are what lets them become prime runners

And I hate doing perfect specialists, because there are times when you can do nothing but stand there.

[MortVent]

Revised using Chummer to help with tweaking to save on paper.. so no spoiler tags just quick edits of the text output. (note- using the influence group @ 4 still)

Street Name: Fancy
Name: Ishtar Haskins

== Attributes ==
BOD: 5
AGI: 3
REA: 3
STR: 3
CHA: 5
INT: 4
LOG: 4
WIL: 5
EDG: 3


== Active Skills ==
Computer : 3
Con : 4
Data Search : 2
Dodge : 3
Etiquette : 4
Gymnastics : 1 [Dance]
Intimidation : 4
Leadership : 4
Negotiation : 4
Perception : 4
Pilot Ground Craft : 2 [Wheeled]
Pistols : 2 [Semi-Automatics]
Unarmed Combat : 1 [Martial Arts]

== Knowledge Skills ==
Dance Clubs : 3
English : N
Gang ID : 3
Industrial Rock Music : 3
Japanese : 3
Local Area Knowledge : 3
Or'zet : 3
Safe Houses : 3
Underworld Politics : 3

== Contacts ==
Club Dancer/Escort (1, 1)
Club Owner (1, 2)
Fence (2, 2)
Fixer (3, 2)
Mechanic (1, 2)
Shark Lawyer (2, 2)
Street Doc (1, 1)
Street Shaman (1, 4)

== Qualities ==
Allergy (Uncommon, Mild) (Gold - Psychosomatic)
Exceptional Attribute (CHA)
Guts
Low-Light Vision
Mania/Phobia (Uncommon, Moderate) (Fear of being alone)
Perceptive (+2 Bonus)
Poor Self Control (Thrill Seeker)
Prejudiced (Specific, Outspoken) (Lone Star Cops)
SINner (Standard) (UCAS)

== Lifestyles ==
Low 1 months

== Armor == (wear based on where)
Actioneer Business Clothes 5/3
Armor Jacket 8/6
Form-Fitting Shirt 3/0
Lined Coat 6/4

== Weapons ==
Colt Government 2066
+Concealable Holster
+Laser Sight
+Silencer
+5 Clips - Regular Ammo
DV: 5P AP: -1 RC: 1
Hardliner Gloves
DV: 3P AP: - RC: 0
Shock Glove x2
DV: 5S(e) AP: -half RC: 0
Unarmed Attack
DV: 2S AP: - RC: 0

== Commlink ==
Novatech Airware (3, 3, 3, 3)
+Iris Orb
+Sim Module (Cold)
+AR Gloves
+Subvocal Microphone
+Trodes
+Suite: Basic+ [Analyze 3, Browse 3, Command 1, Edit 3]
+Encrypt Rating 3 [Copy Protection 3, Registration]
+Purge Rating 3 [Copy Protection 3, Registration]
+Reality Filter Rating 3 [Copy Protection 3, Registration]
+Wall Space
+Virtual Pet
+Virtual Surround Music x20
+VR Game x4
+Sim Recording x6

== Gear ==
Earbuds Rating 1
Fake License (Heavy Pistol) Rating 4
Fake SIN (EVO) Rating 4
Flashlight
Glasses Rating 2
+Flare Compensation
+Image Link
Medkit Rating 6
Respirator Rating 6
Stimulant Patch Rating 6 x4
Trauma Patch x2

== Vehicles ==
Harley-Davidson Scorpion (Chopper)
+Vehicle Sensor

[Makki]

get a rating 3 Empathy Software (+3 dice if you go by RAW, ~+1 if you rule it as a teamwork test) and get First Impression insteat of Guts - another +2 on most of your social tests.
Maybe swicht from to Electronics Group? Then you have Hardware and can pick Maglocks.

[Ryu]

thinking of dropping trustworthy for exceptional attribute(charisma). Gives back 15bp to dump into skills/attributes (with some shuffling can be body 5 and drop the rest into skills by decreasing one of the contacts)

20 BP Ork, 20 BP Exceptional Attribute (CHA). You can play a Human with the same attributes at the same cost, freeing much of your qualities spending cap.

[Glyph]

What's with "Virtual Surround Music x20"? It's like Wall Space; you only need to buy it once.

[MortVent]

What's with "Virtual Surround Music x20"? It's like Wall Space; you only need to buy it once.

Hmm? It's always been like a sim recording. 1 nuyen per Chip. So you buy only one CD... that would drive me nuts. So I get a small collection like with the sim movies.

[MortVent]

get a rating 3 Empathy Software (+3 dice if you go by RAW, ~+1 if you rule it as a teamwork test) and get First Impression insteat of Guts - another +2 on most of your social tests.
Maybe swicht from to Electronics Group? Then you have Hardware and can pick Maglocks.

First impression is a one time bonus when dealing with new people, so once you meet them it stops being useful.

Guts fits the character background better, much like choosing orc vs human (plus the range of boosting physical stats)

As for empathy software, not available in the games I'd be playing in. Besides unless she has the ware installed, and is running it on her commlink linked to the recording implants the individuals will be a lot more hostile to her.

You show up to a meet with a emotoy running, yer going to be treated hostile by the other side. Just common sense to expect people to be upset you brought the social equivalent of an assault cannon in openly

[Makki]

Emotitoys are stupid and make me cry, why did you have to mention them? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) But the software itself runs perfectly with the contact lenses feed. One table I played at banned the software, too, which is fine. But how would I know about you?

and FI is one of the best quality in this game. in 99% you meet someone for the first time and never again. Think of how many people you meet all day long. Bus driver, shop assistant, teller, a random janitor, a generic security guard...

[MortVent]

Emotitoys are stupid and make me cry, why did you have to mention them? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) But the software itself runs perfectly with the contact lenses feed. One table I played at banned the software, too, which is fine. But how would I know about you?

and FI is one of the best quality in this game. in 99% you meet someone for the first time and never again. Think of how many people you meet all day long. Bus driver, shop assistant, teller, a random janitor, a generic security guard...

To a point on FI, but a lot of characters are not min/max so much as tweaked around the background. I could make a cookie cutter perfect face, or one that fits the concept of a tougher than normal face type who's strong willed and doesn't back down due to growing up in slums playing negotiator and courier between the locals (usually avoiding the big boys and such)

[Glyph]

Hmm? It's always been like a sim recording. 1 nuyen per Chip. So you buy only one CD... that would drive me nuts. So I get a small collection like with the sim movies.

Okay, that's cool. The way you had it written, it sounded like you were paying for the software 20 times.

To a point on FI, but a lot of characters are not min/max so much as tweaked around the background. I could make a cookie cutter perfect face, or one that fits the concept of a tougher than normal face type who's strong willed and doesn't back down due to growing up in slums playing negotiator and courier between the locals (usually avoiding the big boys and such)

First impression is very useful, but guts is also a very good quality - it's not merely resisting intimidation, but things like composure checks, and certain spells and critter powers. Both are well worth their relatively cheap cost.

The build point system is very good for crafting characters that fit your concept. Unfortunately, its versatility means that you can create characters of greatly varying effectiveness. That's not always bad, but it can be.

[Irion]

@Glyph
Well, actually this is not true. His character would be better of with Karma Gen, much better.

BP is great for minmaxing chars. Getting this force 4 Powerfocus from the start, getting a lot of knowledge skills for beeing a mage (high Logic) etc.pp.

[Glyph]

I was speaking more generally - Shadowrun vs. systems with classes and levels. Shadowrun is a lot more customizable.

Karmagen would be more optimal for this build, sure - it's more optimal for most builds, I've found. Generalist builds come out much better, but even the min-maxed builds tend to come out with more. And yes, that's using the German errata (which is rumored to also be in the newest printings here in the states).

[Irion]

Well, I once build a technomancer with 400 BP, came out 800 to 900 Karma...

[Ryu]

Well, I once build a technomancer with 400 BP, came out 800 to 900 Karma...

BP-gen can be better, mostly for TMs and strong Trolls. We allow both systems, but most characters are build with karma.

For the original build, using the updated karmagen:
Race 20, Attributes 305, Active Skills 171, Knowledge 54, Contacts 36, Ressources 10 = 596 karma.