Automatic ammo selecter, Do drums fed weapons follow the same rules a revolvers? Options

[Phatpug]

Hello Dumpshockers

looking through Arsenal last night and i was wondering if a drum fed grenade launcher, or any drum fed weapon for that matter, follows the same rules as revolvers for the automatic ammo selector modifications? It would be really cool to have a grenade launcher that you could load with the differed types of ammo and select what you want to use on the fly.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

the GL-67 is a revolver-GL

[Mäx]

No, they follow the rules for all the other types of weapons.
GL-67 is a drum-feed grenade launcher

[Phatpug]

ok so then the next question would be is there a revolver style grenade launcher or would you be able to modify an existing GL to be revolver?

[Yerameyahu]

There's nothing in the rules to do that, no. I can't speak to feasibility from a RL perspective, but I do know that gun guys seem pull off any crazy thing, with enough effort. Alternatively, the GM could rule that a revolver-GL pre-exists in the SR world, and let you buy it.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Well, the picture of the GL-67 in Arsenal looks definitely like a revolver GL

[Garou]

Well, the picture of the GL-67 in Arsenal looks definitely like a revolver GL

A player of mine and fellow Dumpshocker (Brazilian_Shinobi, i choose YOU!) made one of those up, using the modification rules on arsenal. It was Wireless linked, drum fed, and the ammo selection was used with wi-fi commands and electronic firing, if i recall correctly. Maybe he will post it up here.

[Yerameyahu]

I agree, NiL, and the simplest solution is for the GM to change it from Drum (which Mäx points out is the RAW for it) to Revolver. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Garou, if it's drum-fed, then it must use the Ammo *Skip* method, which wastes a lot of grenades.

[Nordom]

I can't speak to feasibility from a RL perspective, but I do know that gun guys seem pull off any crazy thing, with enough effort.

They definitely exist. [Here] is an example.

[Yerameyahu]

Certainly they do. I was actually talking about the feasibility of an aftermarket mod to *convert* from drum to cylinder, per Phatpug's question; in my ignorance, it seems like a very major change to the whole system and structure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Phatpug]

Ok. i just found that Datahaven #1 actually has stats for an underbarrel mounted GL that has a 3(cy) for its ammo. so someone has stated one up, just as a modification. it should be pretty easy to just make it a full sized GL up it to 6(cy) or maybe 8(cy) and increase the price to.... say... 2000-3000¥

From Dumpshock Datahaven #1 pg 9
Colt M204 Underbarrel Grenade Launcher
The M204 is the standard workhorse underbarrel
grenade launcher used by military and security forces world
wide. A slight upgrade to the M203 of the past, the M204
has a three round cylindrical magazine, allowing the user to
load different grenades and select the round to be fired.
Mount: Under
Ammo: 3(cy)
Damage: Grenade
Availability: 8F
Mode: SS
Cost: 750¥

[Yerameyahu]

Sounds fair. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mäx]

Well, the picture of the GL-67 in Arsenal looks definitely like a revolver GL

No, it really really doesn't.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Why would the drum have bulges if not a revolver style cylinder?

[Mäx]

Why would the drum have bulges if not a revolver style cylinder?

Easier to handle(better grip) then perfectly round drum.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

well, in my group it is handled as a revolver-GL (but the only use so far is for Riot-Control drones, with an ammo selector and a loadout of different crowd control, smoke and some lethal grenades)

[Ed_209a]

Well, the picture of the GL-67 in Arsenal looks definitely like a revolver GL

No, it really really doesn't.

I gotta go with NiL on this one. The art definately looks like a 10-round cylinder.

The statline and blurb are clear that it is supposed to be a drum, though.

[Warlordtheft]

The RL comparison:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M32_MGL

It notes that it uses a revolver style action. Quite frankly I wouldn't want the large caliber shell casing flying all over the place after shooting them. Unless the Drum described (I'm AFB) has 20+ shots I'd treat as a revolver.

[3278]

Yeah, I treat it like the M32 MGL it's pretty obviously based on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) A drum magazine, which in an ammo select setup would be rotary and smartgun-controlled. Many of my characters modify their GL-67s that way.

[Yerameyahu]

Again, assuming the art is wrong (no one could deny that it clearly looks like a 10 or 12 (cy)), and assuming that the actual stats are correct, the 67 is a drum (not a revolver; 20 rounds!), and the only ammo selection it can do is *skipping* (ejecting) unused rounds until it arrives at the desired round. As I said earlier, it doesn't seem like modding that into a revolver would be reasonable.

Instead, there should be a separate (much lower capacity) revolver launcher in the game (e.g., M32). But you can't have *both* revolver style and huge capacity in the same gun. Phatpug's 6 or 8 (cy) seemed reasonable (and at a lower price than the GL-67). You could also make one with smaller grenades (because SR4 stupidly has no difference between 40mm and microgrenades). However, it seems to me that smaller grenades encourage drum/clip magazines.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Well, i think in SR 20mm or 25mm minigrenades would be standard, and such should fit in a 16(cy) setup, or even more in a Troll sized weapon. This could result in the following thing:

Enfield GL-67 "S"
Same stats as GL-67 except an ammunition capacity of 16(cy) and an integrated, smartgun-controlled Ammo Skip System.

@Yeramehu:
If you look at 3278s picture of an ammo drum, modifying it into a cylinder would reduce its ammo count only by 2 rounds, or 10%.

[Yerameyahu]

The GL-67 (and the M32) *looks* like 40mm to me, though; obviously, with 20(d), it's not 40mm.

NiL, I just don't see how you can reasonably make that into a revolver at all, but (as I said) I wouldn't bet against ingenuity. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Still, I've never really seen real, production revolvers much about 8 shots, right? It starts to get silly; the MM-1 (with a mere 12) is kind of 'the exception that proves the rule', to me.

But, as I said, you could increase the capacity I quoted by using smaller grenades, which is exactly what the image shows. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Sorry, I was talking about two different things at once, so I see how you got confused.

[Mäx]

The SR grenades launcher do use smaller grenades(thats why GL-67:s drum can hold 20 and underbarrel launchers can hold 6), their called micro grenades same as the thrown ones.
I have been planning on writing up "heavy grenades"(old school 40mm with modern explosives) and launcher for those(including the current day six-pack revolver launcher), for the last couple months.
Would stat out those to somewhere between normal grenades and mortar rounds.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

NiL, I just don't see how you can reasonably make that into a revolver at all, but (as I said) I wouldn't bet against ingenuity. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Still, I've never really seen real, production revolvers much about 8 shots, right? It starts to get silly; the MM-1 (with a mere 12) is kind of 'the exception that proves the rule', to me.

Because the cylinder gets really bulky, but that is not an issue with a grenade launcher

[3278]

NiL, I just don't see how you can reasonably make that into a revolver at all, but (as I said) I wouldn't bet against ingenuity.

Take a circle. That's your drum face. Instead of only loading grenades around the outside, if you're going to have high capacity, as you point out, you're going to need to fill the internal volume with grenade, too. So cut that circle into x number of pie pieces [say, four]. Each type of grenade gets loaded into its piece of pie, and the whole drum rotates on its central spindle to feed the requested type of round to the weapon's receiver. You could do a similar thing with multiple internal helices, but I think it'd get inefficient of space.