[SR3] Weights. Lifting. Other Oddities., Beached Whale! Beached Whale! Oh, no, just a Giant. Options

[Wakshaani]

*checking*

The largest (on average) biped these days is the red kangaroo, which comes in at about 90 kg and around 2 meters tall, putting them just a tad bigger than humans.

Alaskan Grizzly Bears, when on their hind legs, are about 3 meters in height and 500 KG, which is about where a Troll will wind up.

(Bathing suits on 'Bunnies', work safe varies, natch.)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_E_o_0Bdm4GA/TM7a...ar-taken-by.jpg

These are thin versions shown. Hunt around for 'Kodiak' on the image search of your choice and that'll give you a decent scale for Trolls.

[Patrick Goodman]

Mine's based on people, Wak, not bears. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Mileage, might vary, of course.

[OneTrikPony]

I did a weight article a long time ago in the Shadowrun Supplemental #13. I didn't address how much you could lift, but I did address the fact that editions prior to SR4 had laughable body weights.

Just off the top of my head, a giant at 350 cm and 1,028 kg is a little light. As to not being able to lift himself...in the real world, he really shouldn't be able to. But it's a magical world, so I've always told myself that's how trolls, et al, pick themselves off the ground in the first damn place.

I remember that. I think I have that TSS sitting on my HD somewhere. That was a good article.

I don't under stand where the 1100 kg number in the OP is coming from.

When an object undergoes a proportional increase in size, its new volume is proportional to the cube of the multiplier and its new surface area is proportional to the square of the multiplier.

So, for argument, say that trolls have basic human proportions;
An average human is 175 cm and 78kg. Scale that to the size of an average troll 250cm you get a factor of 1.43. 1.43 cubed = 2.92, 2.92 * 78kg = 227kg. Trolls are propotionally more robust so you get the 300kg listed on p.72 of the book.

The OP's character is 350cm, 350/175=2, 2cubed = 8. 8 * 78 = 624. Just because trolls are proportionally more robust than humans doesn't mean that giants are also. In the only depiction I can recall they're rather human like in proportion except or having short legs and being leather bears So, while it doesn't fix the lifting problem I think 1100kg is a vast over estimate of their weight.

I DARE you to click that link if you havn't. I Double Dare you... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Well, the number comes from the shadowrun MUD Seattle64. Dunno if it's spot on with the numbers, but most numbers seem to be correct, so i have no real reason to doubt the value if weight being correct . .
Also, while normal Trolls get +4 Body and +1 from Dermal Plating, Giants get a +5 Body and no Dermal Plating, so, theoretically, they would be more robust than normal trolls, but lack natural armor . .
The bark skin is an SR4 thing which was not present in SR3 at all.

[OneTrikPony]

Barkskin, What?? Which pic of a Giant are you looking at? I only remember the one from... IDK what the book with all the metavarients was called in sr3. That Giant was pretty lanky looking. Do they have bark skin now? (I'm a little behind the times.)

+4 body in 2.5 meters IS more robust than +5 body in 3.5 meters. That's just my interpretation based on that picture, but the math supports it. I've always pictured a giant standing next to a troll looking a lot like Yau Ming standing next to Lou Ferrigno.

But Speaking of strength.
I've just been playing with Xcell. I think the best way to do strength might be to set average strength, (Racial base +2, ie; 3 for humans 7 for trolls), to lift average body weight for that race. Use half that number for an overhead lift. To give a realistic projection of higher and lower strengths put it on an S cruve to represent deminising returns at higher levels of augmentation.

It would look something like this:
Base: 1/4 bodyweight
Base +1: 1/2 bodyweight
Base +2: 1x bodyweight
Base +3: 2x bodyweight
Base +4: 4x bodyweight
base +5: 5x bodyweight (racial maximum)
base +6: 6x bodyweight (augmented strength)
Base +7: 6.5x bodyweight (augmented strength)
Base +8: 7x bodyweight (augmented strength)

It's not as simpple as "#N kg/ point of STR" but its works for each metatype and keeps things in a realistic range till you get to augmented levels at the very least it puts the STR 6 human in the range of a 350-400Kg deadlift where it should be.

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, as of SR4, Giants are part Tree, or at least they look like it, because they have such leathery skin, that it looks like Tree Bark appearantly . . If i remember correctly . .

[Patrick Goodman]

They're not. I wouldn't put much stock in the picture in Runner's Companion, if that's what you're talking about. The art there is...unfortunate. The "leathery skin" is something that got added in later for...well, God only knows why, but it's about stupid.

There's much to be ignored in RC. This is part of it.

(I wish to emphasize at this point that I don't speak for CGL (or anybody else) in anything resembling an official capacity, and those that have said capacity might think the sudden, unexplained, unneccessary changes to metavariants are just the bee's knees. As a writer, though...it's stupid. But I'm speaking only for myself when I say that.)

[CanRay]

So, more authors that get the chair and duct tape routine to explain why they did things?

[snowRaven]

They're not. I wouldn't put much stock in the picture in Runner's Companion, if that's what you're talking about. The art there is...unfortunate. The "leathery skin" is something that got added in later for...well, God only knows why, but it's about stupid.

There's much to be ignored in RC. This is part of it.

(I wish to emphasize at this point that I don't speak for CGL (or anybody else) in anything resembling an official capacity, and those that have said capacity might think the sudden, unexplained, unneccessary changes to metavariants are just the bee's knees. As a writer, though...it's stupid. But I'm speaking only for myself when I say that.)

You wouldn't happen to have a nice little list of such last-minute changes, would you? There's a lot of things in RC that I question... LoL


Oh, and CanRay? You know that on the off-chance that a shadowrun-writer ever gets unwillingly duct-taped to a chair, you'll be in all kinds of trouble, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[CanRay]

Story of my life... Yeah, Bull will probably come in with a prop of a Panther Assault Cannon and beat me with it.

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, but Bull's a sourly OLD Orc Decker.
If you can't dodge BULL you deserve everything that's coming for you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ^^

[CanRay]

Yeah, but Bull's a sourly OLD Orc Decker.
If you can't dodge BULL you deserve everything that's coming for you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ^^

My knees are worse than his. I have canes.

[OneTrikPony]

They're not. I wouldn't put much stock in the picture in Runner's Companion, if that's what you're talking about. The art there is...unfortunate. The "leathery skin" is something that got added in later for...well, God only knows why, but it's about stupid.

Ohh...!

I just figured out that you're talking about the SR4 runners companion. I've always had the 'leather bear' giant in my head from SR2-3 Shadowrun Companion. My thumbs don't even flip to any page in any book with a meta-variant anymore, I've never seen that picture in the RC before.

I concur, that art sucks. Go with the leatherbear version (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Eimi]

They're not. I wouldn't put much stock in the picture in Runner's Companion, if that's what you're talking about. The art there is...unfortunate. The "leathery skin" is something that got added in later for...well, God only knows why, but it's about stupid.

There's much to be ignored in RC. This is part of it.

(I wish to emphasize at this point that I don't speak for CGL (or anybody else) in anything resembling an official capacity, and those that have said capacity might think the sudden, unexplained, unneccessary changes to metavariants are just the bee's knees. As a writer, though...it's stupid. But I'm speaking only for myself when I say that.)

Let me just say that I would strongly support a re-write/reboot of the Runner's Companion with my wallet. There's plenty that's pretty good, but there's so much that's not good that it really needs...well, more than just errata.

[Wakshaani]

IMHO, the Runner's Companion is the single most important book outside of the core rules. It's teh one that details how things work in a general sense, with scads of stuff for players and GMs, variant rules, different campaign styles ... in many ways, it's teh Directory's COmmentary of the core rulebook, and one of the few books that ever talks directly to the playerbase.

If a 2.0 version (Fixer's Little Black Book?) came down the pipe, I'd be all over it.

[OneTrikPony]

Let me just say that I would strongly support a re-write/reboot of the Runner's Companion with my wallet. There's plenty that's pretty good, but there's so much that's not good that it really needs...well, more than just errata.

I second this Strongly. I'd definitely pay for runners companion again if it would completely ignore surge and metavarients while expanding on AI and dropping the bad art.

[OneTrikPony]

oops double post. sry (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

[Bigity]

Has anyone taking SR3 rules and adapted them to the SR4 AR/wireless matrix? I was thinking about coming up with something for my own use, but I'd bet someone has at least started something like that already.