Are metavariants steeply overpriced?, Or is it just me? Options

[snowRaven]

Instant spells are not reduced in Force - rather, the drain is increased by the background count, as well as the Magic attribute itself being reduced. Casters are basically penalized twice already - reducing spell force would be triply penalizing them.

The rules for background count, as presented, seem to assume a mage that is physically present in the background count. But if you look at the entries for astral hazing (both in Augmentation, under cyberzombies, and in Runner's Companion, under SURGE), it says "This astral haze affects all attempts to cast magic on, at, or in the vicinity of the character." In other words, the usual rules for background counts apply for, say, trying to manabolt a character with astral hazing.

This. So much this.

[Machiavelli]

This topic came up so often and still no final official or semi-official answer? No errata, no FAQ-update?

[UmaroVI]

Errata, lol. The FAQ still has entries that predate SR4A and contradict SR4A's updated rules.

[Machiavelli]

I really admire the output the actual guys show (shiny new books, interesting topics, great graphics, very less "bad" things like e.g. WAR) but erratas and updated FAQ´s are also really important for games with so much written content. There is an official forum and a well-established traditional one (yes, i talk about you good ol´ Dumpshock) where all really important questions came up several times. Is it really that difficult to sit down together or simply send a mail to give us mere mundanes a short answer and end all this useless discussions of RAI´s vs. the neverending nitpicking of RAW´s? Come on, some officials are also here on the forum, there are several freelancers around....show some mercy and tell us how this f**ck s**it really works. Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?

[Stahlseele]

Best part of it:
Germany got the Official Errata.

[snowRaven]

Best part of it:
Germany got the Official Errata.

Yeah, yeah...you got the short end of the SR-stick for years, and now you're making up for it by giving it to the non-german world (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Stahlseele]

*pats his germany only BOOKS*

[snowRaven]

*pats his germany only BOOKS*

Bastards. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[CanRay]

Bastards the lot of you, I say!

[Irion]

@Stahlseele
The errata is only written into the books, isn't it?
In which one?
I thought somebody wanted to write it down and translate it?

[Stahlseele]

No, the Errata got worked into the books that got errata in the first place.
So to find the errata, you'd have to compare an old one with a new one.
See what's different and then write the differences down and translate it.
Also, Bogota! for example got some bigger changes if i remember correctly.

[snowRaven]

No, the Errata got worked into the books that got errata in the first place.
So to find the errata, you'd have to compare an old one with a new one.
See what's different and then write the differences down and translate it.
Also, Bogota! for example got some bigger changes if i remember correctly.

Are the aircraft carriers in the german version still submersible? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[ravensmuse]

All right, so, honest question. What do people think meta-variants should be priced? For that matter, how should AIs and Free Spirits be priced?

Because hoo boy, they sure are tempting at 200 BP... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

I'm opposed to "rarity tax". I agree that there should be some sort of limitation to prevent people from Powergaming With Meta-variants, but my Sixth World is weird. I'd like to see more of them in my world, not less.

[Yerameyahu]

It's just sad, though. The world is plenty weird *without* everyone being a SURGEd troll(Fomori) ghoul(Sasobonsam)(infertile) with Astral Hazing, or every face a dryad, etc. To focus only on the ultra-exceptional slights all the 'normal' weirdness. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Even ignoring the powergaming, as you say, you're still left with the 'ultra-weird' effect.

[Mäx]

I'm opposed to "rarity tax".

I simply call it "get more qualities then others" tax (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Sengir]

Are the aircraft carriers in the german version still submersible? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Nope, our carriers are not that advanced (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Glyph]

I'm opposed to "rarity tax". I agree that there should be some sort of limitation to prevent people from Powergaming With Meta-variants, but my Sixth World is weird. I'd like to see more of them in my world, not less.

The problem isn't with an overall "rarity tax", but with metavariant costs being all over the place, with little rhyme or reason. Personally, I think it is better for the GM to revise the costs on an individual basis, rather than overhauling everything. Make things like night ones and xapiri thepe only cost the base 30 points, and make oni and nartaki only cost 20 points, for example.

[bobbaganoosh]

All right, so, honest question. What do people think meta-variants should be priced? For that matter, how should AIs and Free Spirits be priced?

Because hoo boy, they sure are tempting at 200 BP... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

I'm opposed to "rarity tax". I agree that there should be some sort of limitation to prevent people from Powergaming With Meta-variants, but my Sixth World is weird. I'd like to see more of them in my world, not less.

Or Dragons. Those cost 300 BP, IIRC.

[Draco18s]

Or Dragons. Those cost 300 BP, IIRC.

Admittedly, it was an april fools joke. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[bobbaganoosh]

Admittedly, it was an april fools joke. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yes, but the cost was mostly balanced. And dragons are awesome.

[ravensmuse]

The problem isn't with an overall "rarity tax", but with metavariant costs being all over the place, with little rhyme or reason. Personally, I think it is better for the GM to revise the costs on an individual basis, rather than overhauling everything. Make things like night ones and xapiri thepe only cost the base 30 points, and make oni and nartaki only cost 20 points, for example.

See, you pretty much said what I think. I have no problem with charging a little extra for some metavariants - and a little bit more for the truly crazy stuff like HMHVV positive folks, AIs, and Free Spirits - but I think that costs are severely out of whack.

[Irion]

Free spirits have to cost a lot, because they give you a lot of "those rules do not apply to you".
They suffer more from "strange ruling" than with costs.

Infected also bring a lot to the table and therefor have to cost a lot. A minor problem is that there are thing which give you a lot (beeing a mage) but cost very little(15BP).
This comes down to: Want you be an elf or a mage?

[ElFenrir]

Admittedly, we play with the old RC Karma rules and let metatypes be free, but we do play slightly more high end games.

That being said, I definitely am not for the rarity tax on metahumans or metavariants. On top of that, though, there has been times where I would play a metavariant without one of their more powerful aspects.

The reason I like Fomori is because A. I like playing The Big Strong Guy, and B. I like some of my characters to be 'lookers.' Being the 'Pretty Trolls', with some quick Minor Biosculpting and I have a hot ass troll guy. I honestly don't *care* about the Arcane Arrester. It's awesome, yes, but I would play Fomori without it. I'd be sad if I had to pay out the nose for a quality that I could happily leave behind, just so I could play a good looking Huge Guy, since all the +Strength races tend to come with extra 'scary looking' baggage(I won't say ugly since I've seen some who were not ugly, but were just kinda scary and rawr.), and lower Charisma. (Granted, with biosculpting nowadays, I could probably take Moderate or Severe and play a regular Troll that looked like a big human dude with horns and small, well polished and cared for tusks. Granted I've seen some official art regular trolls who look really good to me, in a tough heavy metal guy way. I don't have them in front of me but I have some favorites.)

So yeah, I'm a Fomori fan just for the visuals. Arcane Arrester? Pfft. Powerful but I don't need it.

[Mäx]

So much with you there ElFenrir, my main character build is a Dryad combat face, thats pretty much the basic munchkin choice for that role.
But the actual reason i went with a Dryad is that Symbiosis just pretty much explains half of the characters background.

[Machiavelli]

Combat-face....^^ Ok.