Are metavariants steeply overpriced?, Or is it just me? Options

[Stahlseele]

But walking around with Rating 4 BGC and Arcane Arrester might make it less problematic.
You can look into the astral yourself and you are barely touchable by magic from the astral.
Also, it would make most other HMHVV things powerless against you. Other ghouls would go blind.
You'd be the undisputed alpha in a pack of otherwise normal ghouls for example. Also, an outcast.

[UmaroVI]

Except there's plenty of things that can mess you up from the astral that don't need to come within your radius and aren't spells; plenty of spirits have M powers that can shaft you badly (like Fear or Confusion) and Arcane Arrester and Astral Hazing do diddly to protect you from that.

[Machiavelli]

Correct. Also the GM hates you, because you are close to unplayable. ^^ Besides: as i understand it, the astral combat skill should prevent you from being shot astrally by "out-of-range" mages. without a possibility to reach them by yourself. RAW says, it includes specific ways to fight in the unusual realm of astral space. I always thought of it like an special version of "attack of will" that lets you fight against enemies that are not only WAYS faster than you, but also maybe out of range. Otherwise this ability would be next to useless to any astral perceiving entity.

[UmaroVI]

Nope, it doesn't do jack. Astral Combat is astral melee. Mages can sit back and stunbolt you do death from the air, and you can't do anything about it with Astral Combat except ineffectively flail around.

[Machiavelli]

So no defense for every dual-natured creature? That would be weak and it would make the skill even more useless than it really is.

[UmaroVI]

Bingo. Astral Combat is a very sketchy skill choice for most characters, and dual-natured creatures with no ranged M attacks are basically target practice. Welcome to Shadowrun.

[thorya]

Bingo. Astral Combat is a very sketchy skill choice for most characters, and dual-natured creatures with no ranged M attacks are basically target practice. Welcome to Shadowrun.

To be fair, we feel the same way about melee fighters in the physical world.

[Machiavelli]

With the difference that nobody prevents you from getting a ranged-weapon skill, while "becoming" a full mage, capable of spellcasting is not possible.

[Irion]

The only dual natured critter, which is not totally screwed, is the free spirit.
All the others suck hard, very hard! (If they do not kick "dual natured")

A Ward is a solid wall for you. Yes, in other threads it was pointed out, that puplic wards are probably weak and not controled but this does not help you, if you want to get in the "non-public" area...
Or some Asshole building his ward to big and blocking the street.

A similar question is, what powers are astrally active and if they can be turned off without killing you...

[Machiavelli]

I really cannot believe that. This would make astral perception / dual-natured be incredibly broken. I assume that being able to perceive into this plane is an advantage, not the biggest drawback in the SR history.

[Yerameyahu]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Believe it, Machiavelli.

Oh, from before: *everyone* had that same idea, that was my point.

[Stahlseele]

Do keep in mind that spellcasting on the astral is a bit harder than on the mundane for the mage, due to drain being physical immeditately and overcasting being more difficult due to that . .
Furthermore, the rating 4 BGC would make the ghoul harder to target(i think there is a table for this somewhere) and it would make spells weaker that target him, same with arcane arrester.
And the BGC would take care of weak(force 1-4) wards too. Of course, this does not lessen the problem with the M Critter-Powers, but those are not all that prevalent to begin with i believe.

[Draco18s]

Furthermore, the rating 4 BGC would make the ghoul harder to target(i think there is a table for this somewhere) and it would make spells weaker that target him

Actually, the BGC has no effect on direct spells cast into it.

It's dumb IMO, but them's the rules.

(That's right, you can cast Wreck at the moon with no penalty)

[Stahlseele]

Uhm, Draco, sorry but . . Space is not BGC, it's a Level 12 Mana VOID . . Negative Mana more or less . . BGC is Mana, but chaotic mana. It's a Positive disturbance.

[Yerameyahu]

I think we can agree that an Arcane Arrester, Astral Hazing ghoul is a significantly special case. Dual-Natured in general, however, is pretty bad.

[Draco18s]

Uhm, Draco, sorry but . . Space is not BGC, it's a Level 12 Mana VOID . . Negative Mana more or less . . BGC is Mana, but chaotic mana. It's a Positive disturbance.

Doesn't matter. ;D

Casting a directly targetted spell (such as Mana Bolt, Stun Bolt, etc.) aren't effected by the background count (positive OR negative) at the target's location, only the caster's.

Read the rules on BGC sometime.

Also, lack of mana instead of a well of mana is still BGC. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/indifferent.gif)

[Stahlseele]

That's . . that's . . oy @.@

[UmaroVI]

With the difference that nobody prevents you from getting a ranged-weapon skill, while "becoming" a full mage, capable of spellcasting is not possible.

Also, people in the real world can't all fly at high speed. It would be like being a melee fighter in a world where everyone else is a jet plane with machine guns.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

THIS.

Oh and since someone else has raised it, can someone please explain to me Loup Garou?? Why would you play one? They make nosense at all.

- J.

I have come up with an interesting idea or two for a Loup-Garou. Unfortunately, our table does not allow Infected PC's. *shrug*
SOmetimes an Idea calls out for a specific "Race."

[Lantzer]

You must be joking. I'm almost convinced you're trolling.

Night Ones have precisely one, minor, five-point positive Quality, Keen Eared.

In exchange for this lofty privilege, they take a nasty, probably underpriced, -10-point Quality in Nocturnal that means their Mental attributes get a straight-up penalty at daytime, no matter if they have any idea of the time. They just get it, because they should be sleeping then. Where does that come from, huh? Humans/elves/orks/trolls/dwarves don't take a penalty at nighttime for being creatures that should be active at daytime and are instead awake at night. That's just a random penalty on them.

In addition to this, they take a penalty in that they have a mild allergy to sunlight. So if they're outside in daytime, or near a window or something, they're taking an additional penalty to everything they do, over and above their penalty just because the clock ticked over from 0559 to 0600.

And they get Unusual Hair (Colored Fur,) which is basically a specified form of Distinctive Style. That's, let me do the math here, +5, -10, -10, -5, for a grand point total of... -20.

And you're saying they should cost more than baseline elves?

They are the metavariant of choice for Drizzt fans. Ew.

[Draco18s]

That's . . that's . . oy @.@

;D
Told you it makes no goddamn sense.

[Hamsnibit]

And on top of that, if your magic is higher than 12 you will be able to cast spells even in a mana downtime, although the drain will screw you bigtime.
No mana, yes but technically you are still able to cast.
Intersting would be how much you can cyber up people in a downtime since i think essence is a mana phenomenon.

If we are to believe the Street Legends Supplemental, Harlequin summoned an ally spirit in the 5th age and had a duel with Eran somewhere in the 17th century IIRC.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And on top of that, if your magic is higher than 12 you will be able to cast spells even in a mana downtime, although the drain will screw you bigtime.
No mana, yes but technically you are still able to cast.
Intersting would be how much you can cyber up people in a downtime since i think essence is a mana phenomenon.

If we are to believe the Street Legends Supplemental, Harlequin summoned an ally spirit in the 5th age and had a duel with Eran somewhere in the 17th century IIRC.

And how exactly does a Mana Void affect a Duel (Since they normally duel with Swords)?
And yes, with a Magic greater than 12, You can still cast magic in the down cycle. Yay. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

I assumed from context that it was a magic duel, personally.

[Hamsnibit]

Well, i assume that a duel between those magically totally overfed guys might involve some spells, but yes for the sake of the ritual they might just have crossed swords.
IDK but Harlequin was able to troll Ehran and it definitively made him happy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)