Reaction Enhancers |
Reaction Enhancers |
Feb 6 2012, 01:06 PM
Post
#1
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 74 Joined: 28-September 06 Member No.: 9,490 |
Quick (hopefully) question about reaction enhancers. The book says that they can be combined with other initiative enhancers, but I don't see any other enhancements that are allowed to be combined. i.e. Wired Reflexes, Move by Wire, and the bioware version of WR all say they cannot be combined with other initiative enhancers. So what, exactly, can reaction enhancers be combined with? In looking at some of the improved archetypes on the forums here it looks as though they are combining WR with Reaction Enhancers, but I want to make sure that's legit before I encourage my GM to start throwing heavy objects at me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Thanks in advance for any assistance! |
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 01:24 PM
Post
#2
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
This is a dumb mistake.
Reaction Enhancers used to be compatible with everything, aside from MoveByWire. Basically, everything that gives more INI PASSES can't be combined with anything else that gives Ini PASSEs. Aside from Drugs. But the Reaction Enhancers can be combined with anything, aside from the MoveByWire. At least, it used to be like this in SR3 . . |
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 01:31 PM
Post
#3
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 116 Joined: 19-February 10 From: San Antonio, TX Member No.: 18,180 |
Double check the description for Wired Reflexes in SR4A on page 342. It says that Wired Reflexes cannot be combined with other forms of Initiative Enhancers except Reaction Enhancers.
|
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 09:57 PM
Post
#4
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 8-November 07 Member No.: 14,097 |
But the Reaction Enhancers can be combined with anything, aside from the MoveByWire. At least, it used to be like this in SR3 . . In SR4(a), Reaction Enhancers work with both Wired Reflexes and Move By Wire (in Augmentation, p41) ; but not Synaptic Boosters (or magical means). |
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 10:04 PM
Post
#5
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Hngh, i hate such random changes . .
|
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 11:06 PM
Post
#6
|
|
Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Hngh, i hate such random changes . . Doesn't have to be random. MBW has just been perfected enough that RE's now work with them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 11:18 PM
Post
#7
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
That may be the case, but why are the synaptic accellerators now incompatible with the reaction enhancers?
Probably balance reasons, but they were not under SR3 rules, so characters with both of those are de facto unable to be ported over . . |
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 11:27 PM
Post
#8
|
|
Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
That may be the case, but why are the synaptic accellerators now incompatible with the reaction enhancers? Probably balance reasons, but they were not under SR3 rules, so characters with both of those are de facto unable to be ported over . . *shrug* Did not think they were compatible in Previous Editions, and can no longer check, as all of my books for those editions were stolen. Can't answer that one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 11:32 PM
Post
#9
|
|
Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
Part of the problem is that the language around "reaction enhancers" is imprecise.
Additionally, at least part of the text was copy/pasted from the third edition rules, which had a differing mechanic. So the text is inconsistent. -k |
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 11:34 PM
Post
#10
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Synaptics were not compatible with Wired Reflexes and not with MoveByWire.
And the compatibility to enhanced reflexes cyber-ware depends on revision of errata and how you read it i think . . But they were compatible with Reaction Enhancers too. Everything was compatible with Reaction Enhancers, safe for MoveByWire i think . . |
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 11:38 PM
Post
#11
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 54 Joined: 26-April 11 Member No.: 28,869 |
That may be the case, but why are the synaptic accellerators now incompatible with the reaction enhancers? Probably balance reasons, but they were not under SR3 rules, so characters with both of those are de facto unable to be ported over . . Did you mean Synaptic Booster the bioware? if so then the reason is that they do the same thing in the same place. synaptic boosters grow the spinal column thicker so information can be sent faster. reaction enhancers replace sections of the spinal cord with super conductive metals so information can be sent faster. |
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 11:45 PM
Post
#12
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 54 Joined: 26-April 11 Member No.: 28,869 |
speaking of reaction enhancers. I haven't played 3rd edition in a while, but didn't the core rule book have two types of cyber that gave you inititive passes. I know that Wired Reflexes was in there, but i feel like there was a second.
|
|
|
Feb 6 2012, 11:47 PM
Post
#13
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
speaking of reaction enhancers. I haven't played 3rd edition in a while, but didn't the core rule book have two types of cyber that gave you inititive passes. I know that Wired Reflexes was in there, but i feel like there was a second. Reaction Boosters I think they were called. Basically the poor man's wires. It took like 3 levels of the ware for 2 passes. |
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 12:05 AM
Post
#14
|
|
Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
|
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 12:06 AM
Post
#15
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 15-December 09 Member No.: 17,968 |
Reaction Boosters I think they were called. Basically the poor man's wires. It took like 3 levels of the ware for 2 passes. Boosted reflexes they were called, and not to be sniffed at. They were a feasible option for those not wanting to blow a whole big chunk of Essence and nuyen. |
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 12:08 AM
Post
#16
|
|
Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Well. Definitely to be sniffed at. Also sniggered and guffawed at. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But if you weren't cool enough for real mods…
|
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 12:12 AM
Post
#17
|
|
Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Well. Definitely to be sniffed at. Also sniggered and guffawed at. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) But if you weren't cool enough for real mods… Heh... |
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 12:15 AM
Post
#18
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Look at it from this side:
They take less starting ressources in both money and essence and are the only type of enhancement that is compatible with synaptic accellerators and thus the only way you will ever get 4 dice for initiative . . So they were not the instant bam, but the more in the long run planning character enhancement of choice, as long as you did not want to be a rigger or have them removed any time soon . . |
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 01:03 AM
Post
#19
|
|
Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Look at it from this side: They take less starting ressources in both money and essence and are the only type of enhancement that is compatible with synaptic accellerators and thus the only way you will ever get 4 dice for initiative . . So they were not the instant bam, but the more in the long run planning character enhancement of choice, as long as you did not want to be a rigger or have them removed any time soon . . Thought that they took you to five dice when all was said and done. 1 Base, +1 for Boosted Reflexes and +3 for Synaptic Accelerators... Or do I remember incorrectly? And yes, they were great for the planner. |
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 01:06 AM
Post
#20
|
|
Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
That always seemed like more a glitch than a feature, to me. Not that our characters ever went that far before we made new ones, anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
|
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 01:21 AM
Post
#21
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 |
Boosted reflexes they were called, and not to be sniffed at. They were a feasible option for those not wanting to blow a whole big chunk of Essence and nuyen. They also explicitly could not be upgraded. Which made for weirdness about getting them taken out and replaced, etc etc. |
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 02:29 AM
Post
#22
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
That's part of the confusion in going from SR3 to SR4. Boosted reflexes and the synaptic accelerator were basically combined into synaptic boosters.
|
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 03:44 AM
Post
#23
|
|
Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 9,675 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
Reaction Enhancers go with both wired reflexes and move-by-wire.
|
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 04:28 AM
Post
#24
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,849 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Melbourne, Australia Member No.: 872 |
|
|
|
Feb 7 2012, 09:12 AM
Post
#25
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,507 Joined: 11-November 08 Member No.: 16,582 |
Don't forget the real problem with the compatibility of reaction enhancers and wired reflexes/MBW. The rule classifies them as "initiative enhancements" meaning that anything that indirectly increases the initiative attribute logically must be an "initiative enhancement" as well. As such no 'ware or power that increases initiative passes, that has the incompatibility rule, can be combined with stuff like the suprathyroid gland or anything else that increases REA or INT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)
The developers should strike the rule and say something like "['ware/Power]is incompatible with anything/any implant or power that increases initiative passes." If they still wanted certain implants to be incompatible with Reaction Enhancers, there should be a separate rule saying so. I guess this is a case of bad copy/paste from 3rd edition. There you did not get a set number of passes but your initiative score determined the number of passes. As long as you could substract 10 from your score and get a positive number you got another pass. |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 26th April 2024 - 12:45 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.