Spirit Power - Aura Masking, what spirit can get it? Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Stahlgewitter]

Hoi Chummers

ive been tweaking my Possesion Mage and found Aura Masking in Street Magic

SM:
New Spirit Powers
The powers listed here are in addition to the normal critter
and spirit powers found on pp. 286–291, SR4.

Aura Masking
Type: M • Action: Free • Range: Self • Duration: Sustained
This power functions as both the initiate powers Masking
(p. 190, SR4) and Extended Masking (p. 60). The spirit uses
its Edge in place of initiate grade. The spirit can also hide the
use of any of its powers on itself within the masked aura. Only
characters who pierce the masking can see the spirit’s use of
spirit powers on itself. A spirit can always attempt to appear
as another form of astral creature (even if not capable of astral
projection), but masking itself as mundane would be entirely
pointless unless it is joined to a physical body or has the realistic
form power.


but no premade Spirit has this power, or can to choose it as optional power.

So now i would like to know if i can give it my Ally Spirit?
Do i have to learn Masking and Ext Masking to give it to him?
Or can i simply choose it at Ally creation (which in my case would be char creation)?

Cause i plan to get only possessed from my Ally and if i can learn him this power from character creation i could learn
masking+ext masking a lot later, which would give me more room for other stuff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also is there a list which Powers an Ally Spirit can learn?
cause i am interested in a few other to ^^

[Stahlgewitter]

arrr
seems i overlooked a bit, free spirits can get Aura Masking.
So it seems theres no hope for my ally spirit ^^

[Udoshi]

I had good luck asking my GM if I could give my ally spirit Aura Masking, because my mage had both metamagics that aura masking duplicates.

Its a bit of a stretch, but it makes sense, especially if you are designing your own spirit from scratch.

I think some Shadow spirit may also come with aura masking built in, but I may be confusing it for Mutable form/Realistic form since I'm working off the top of my head here.

[Stahlseele]

Hmm, interesting question:
Can an Ally-Spirit learn Metamagics at all?

[Udoshi]

This was covered in the other thread, stahl

Basically yes, but its entirely dependent on optional rules because they can't initiate on their own, and also a pain in the ass because you still have to pay for it.

[Stahlseele]

Ah it was? OK, never mind then!
And yes, of course the summoner would have to pay for the initiation with his karma in addition to the change/improvement he has to pay for everything else he changes on the Ally.

[Udoshi]

No, no, allies are specifically forbidden from initiations.

You have to find a way to transfer 15 karma to your ally, and then use the optional learning-metamagic-from-a-tutor rules in street magic.

Keep in mind that they will forever have an initiation grade of 0, which really limits the amount of metamagics they can make use of.

[Stahlseele]

Ah, ok, my bad.

[Stahlgewitter]

I had good luck asking my GM if I could give my ally spirit Aura Masking, because my mage had both metamagics that aura masking duplicates.

Its a bit of a stretch, but it makes sense, especially if you are designing your own spirit from scratch.

I think some Shadow spirit may also come with aura masking built in, but I may be confusing it for Mutable form/Realistic form since I'm working off the top of my head here.

That would not be the problem we (we did often change GM position, more or less every one in our group has made GM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) are open for such things,
the problem is i didnt want to take it in the beginning ^^

[Yerameyahu]

Do they have a grade 0, or a grade X? It seems like they couldn't make use of that metamagic-learning loophole, based on their fundamental nature.

[Stahlgewitter]

Optional Rule : Learning Meta Magic
If the gamemaster approves, Awakened characters can
learn metamagic techniques through other methods, in addition
to the one they acquire at each grade of initiation. It costs
15 Karma to learn a metamagic technique outside of initiation.
The maximum number of metamagic techniques that may be
learned is equal to the character’s Magic + initiation grade.

From what i read out of that, u cant learn your Ally any Metamagic.
Cause he would need to Initiate first for learning an Metamagic with the optional Rule.

But theres always the sideway simple talk with your GM he may or may not allow Allys Metamagic

[The Jake]

You could just be super nice to it, cop some serious damage and let it go free and hope it sticks around?

- J.

[phlapjack77]

So now i would like to know if i can give it my Ally Spirit?
Do i have to learn Masking and Ext Masking to give it to him?
Or can i simply choose it at Ally creation (which in my case would be char creation)?

This probably doesn't help, but a Flesh-Form merge for an inhabitation ally spirit would get Aura Masking.

[The Jake]

This probably doesn't help, but a Flesh-Form merge for an inhabitation ally spirit would get Aura Masking.

That'd work allright.

- J.

[Irion]

@Stahlseele

Can an Ally-Spirit learn Metamagics at all?

No, they can. Several reasons:
1. They can't initiate.
2. They can't earn or get karma.
3. They can't use the learning rules.

An interesting question would be, if ally spirits or summond spirits in general can be of an higher force than 6, since they do not have a way to initiate...


The only way to get aura maskin is the one phlapjack77 mentioned.

[Udoshi]

Optional Rule : Learning Meta Magic
If the gamemaster approves, Awakened characters can
learn metamagic techniques through other methods, in addition
to the one they acquire at each grade of initiation. It costs
15 Karma to learn a metamagic technique outside of initiation.
The maximum number of metamagic techniques that may be
learned is equal to the character’s Magic + initiation grade.

From what i read out of that, u cant learn your Ally any Metamagic.
Cause he would need to Initiate first for learning an Metamagic with the optional Rule.

False.
Force 6 = magic 6 = 6 possible non-initiation metamagics.

No, they can. Several reasons:
1. They can't initiate.
2. They can't earn or get karma.
3. They can't use the learning rules.

1 is true. Ally spirits are specifically prohibited against initiation.
2 is partially true. They do not earn karma, but you can use tricks to give them karma. Endowment trickery and karma drain is one of them. Street magic has a time consuming karma transfer ritual that takes an hour per point.
3) 3 is false. Ally spirits are Magicians, and definitely Awakened. You may be thinking that you MUST be initiated to learn a metamagic - which is false. Its just that a significant amount of them are useless at grade zero. (like centering! have zero extra bonus dice on your drain tests!)

I never claimed that this is a convoluted, or not-very-worth it method of getting metamagics on spirits, but it IS possible. Just very expensive and time consuming.

[Dakka Dakka]

Well if MAG>6 is a problem for ally spirits it is a problem for normal spirits as well. They can't initiate either.

[Udoshi]

Well if MAG>6 is a problem for ally spirits it is a problem for normal spirits as well. They can't initiate either.

You're missing the point.

The limit on outside-of-initiation metamagics has nothing to do with your initiation grade. The only reason that text is worded like it is is to prevent people from acquiring ALL the metamagics at a flat cost - IE, not going up by 3 every time like initiation is.

Per the core book, you can initiate a number of times = your magic, and get a metamagic each time, and there will come a point where you HAVE to raise your base magic if you want to initiate again.
Per the street magic metamagic-tutor rules: "The maximum number of metamagic techniques that may be
learned is equal to the character’s Magic + initiation grade."

Basically your BASIC magic attribute rating becomes slots for metamagics too, in addition to initiations. You are still limited in total power, but it is double what it was before. You probably missed the implication that initiation-granted-metamagics count towards this limit too.

Let me spell it out for you.
If you have a magic of 1, you can pay 15 karma to learn 1 metamagic.
If you have a magic of 2, you can pay up to 30 karma to learn up to 2 metamagics.
If you have a magic of 6, you can learn up to 6 metamagics.
If you have a magic of 6 and an initiation grade of 6, you can learn up to 12 metamagics total. Half must be from initiations.

Initiation isn't a requirement for learning metamagics. Its a side benefit - a really important side benefit - of initiation.
As Stahlgewitter pointed out with his quote, Awakened Characters can do this - that means anything awakened.
Seriously, check out running wild 24 - paranormal critters. Critters with Sapience and Adept/Mysadept/Magician CAN initiate.

Just remember that, yeah, its possible to have smart birds and crap tooling around on the astral metaplanes if they really want.

[Tanegar]

An interesting question would be, if ally spirits or summond spirits in general can be of an higher force than 6, since they do not have a way to initiate...

Why would a spirit need to initiate to be higher than Force 6? I know of nothing indicating that spirits are bound by the same Attribute caps as metahumans.

[pbangarth]

Why would a spirit need to initiate to be higher than Force 6? I know of nothing indicating that spirits are bound by the same Attribute caps as metahumans.

At the least, Free Spirit PCs are limited to Force 6 unless they Initiate, allowing an increase to Force (and therefore Magic). (Runner's Companion, page 92.)

[Dakka Dakka]

PC spirits are screwed in so many ways...

[Yerameyahu]

As soon as you use the word 'trickery', it becomes hard to accept the suggested 'rules interpretation'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Irion]

False.
Force 6 = magic 6 = 6 possible non-initiation metamagics.

Nope. Pay attention to the word in addition. Look the word up, if you do not know its meaning.
It more than strongly suggests, that you need at least one initiations. But if this is not enough: It is an optional rule for initiates.
So in order to use this rule, you need to be an initiate.

1 is true. Ally spirits are specifically prohibited against initiation.
2 is partially true. They do not earn karma, but you can use tricks to give them karma. Endowment trickery and karma drain is one of them. Street magic has a time consuming karma transfer ritual that takes an hour per point.
3) 3 is false. Ally spirits are Magicians, and definitely Awakened. You may be thinking that you MUST be initiated to learn a metamagic - which is false. Its just that a significant amount of them are useless at grade zero. (like centering! have zero extra bonus dice on your drain tests!)

2)Yeah, Endownment + Karma drain is one way. But I guess there is a reason PCs do not have access to this power.
3) I do not know if they are magicians. Actually I can't find the point, where they get this quality. But all of this does not matter. The only way for an ally spirit to be enhanced (RAW) is for the mage to change his formula. Sorry, but your argumentation is bogus at best. By the same kind of argumentation I might initiate without paying karma. Nobody says I can't.

I never claimed that this is a convoluted, or not-very-worth it method of getting metamagics on spirits, but it IS possible. Just very expensive and time consuming.

Yes, by houseruling. But as a matter of fact, everything is possible this way.

@Tanegar
There is also a paragraph in the core book suggesting that magic has a natural limit from 1 to 6.

[Stahlgewitter]

Nope. Pay attention to the word in addition. Look the word up, if you do not know its meaning.
It more than strongly suggests, that you need at least one initiations. But if this is not enough: It is an optional rule for initiates.
So in order to use this rule, you need to be an initiate.

2)Yeah, Endownment + Karma drain is one way. But I guess there is a reason PCs do not have access to this power.
3) I do not know if they are magicians. Actually I can't find the point, where they get this quality. But all of this does not matter. The only way for an ally spirit to be enhanced (RAW) is for the mage to change his formula. Sorry, but your argumentation is bogus at best. By the same kind of argumentation I might initiate without paying karma. Nobody says I can't.

Yes, by houseruling. But as a matter of fact, everything is possible this way.

@Tanegar
There is also a paragraph in the core book suggesting that magic has a natural limit from 1 to 6.

1) thats exactly what i meant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

2) that theres no way in the rules for allys to gain karma shows for me that they are not supposed to gain anything through it.
(like everything i would suggest houseruling cause for me it would make sense that your ally can learn everything u can learn)

3) page 105 Street Magic
"Every ally spirit possesses the Magician quality (p. 79, SR4)
and can be designed with any Magical skills known to its summoner
such as Arcana, Counterspelling, Enchanting, Ritual
Spellcasting, and Spellcasting. Ally spirits, however, can never
use skills from the Conjuration skill group. Ally spirits may not
initiate. An ally inhabiting a vessel may not astrally project."

[Udoshi]

Well if MAG>6 is a problem for ally spirits it is a problem for normal spirits as well. They can't initiate either.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Could you explain it?

Mag>6 isn't a problem at all as far as i'm aware. Its a good thing that doesn't have anything to do with prohibiting initiation.

So i'm confused. Could you please explain this mag>6 problem?