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> Another Rainy Night now released--new fiction with accompanying rules, stats, And Patrick Goodman wrote it. You've seen him around, right?
JanessaVR
post Feb 29 2012, 12:06 AM
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QUOTE (almost normal @ Feb 28 2012, 02:24 PM) *
As much as I love SR art, it seems in this case that it bumped the price up to levels I don't feel comfortable paying. I'd rather have just the story.

You don't feel comfortable paying a whole $5 for a book? You may have picked the wrong hobby.
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snowRaven
post Feb 29 2012, 12:12 AM
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QUOTE (JanessaVR @ Feb 29 2012, 01:06 AM) *
You don't feel comfortable paying a whole $5 for a book? You may have picked the wrong hobby.


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almost normal
post Feb 29 2012, 05:35 AM
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QUOTE (JanessaVR @ Feb 28 2012, 07:06 PM) *
You don't feel comfortable paying a whole $5 for a book? You may have picked the wrong hobby.



For comparison, unwired is full of rules, gear, fiction, pictures, qualities and tables. 200+ real pages with a hardcover for 35.

If you feel comfortable paying 55 dollars for an electronic version of the same book, that is, the average cost per page of the pdf, then perhaps you should be more wary of how you spend your mothers income then worrying about my taste in hobby.
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JanessaVR
post Feb 29 2012, 05:58 AM
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QUOTE (almost normal @ Feb 28 2012, 09:35 PM) *
For comparison, unwired is full of rules, gear, fiction, pictures, qualities and tables. 200+ real pages with a hardcover for 35.

If you feel comfortable paying 55 dollars for an electronic version of the same book, that is, the average cost per page of the pdf, then perhaps you should be more wary of how you spend your mothers income then worrying about my taste in hobby.

Please do at least 10 seconds of research first before making wild, grossly unsubstantiated claims. Unwired is available here from DriveThruRPG for $12, not $55, as you can plainly see.

As for my "mothers income," which incidentally should read "mother's income," I'm a 40-year old Developer DBA / Programmer and I moved out the house shortly after graduating high school at 18 and worked my way through college. My income is my own.

More to the point, if you would care to notice, this thread is about Another Rainy Night, not Unwired, and retails for $4.95 at DriveThruRPG here.

Do try to pay attention.
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almost normal
post Feb 29 2012, 03:18 PM
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QUOTE (JanessaVR @ Feb 29 2012, 12:58 AM) *
Please do at least 10 seconds of research first before making wild, grossly unsubstantiated claims. Unwired is available here from DriveThruRPG for $12, not $55, as you can plainly see.

As for my "mothers income," which incidentally should read "mother's income," I'm a 40-year old Developer DBA / Programmer and I moved out the house shortly after graduating high school at 18 and worked my way through college. My income is my own.

More to the point, if you would care to notice, this thread is about Another Rainy Night, not Unwired, and retails for $4.95 at DriveThruRPG here.

Do try to pay attention.


Surprising no one, you missed the point once more. ARN is 5 dollars for 19 pages. If inflated to the pagecount of Unwired's 207 pages, you come out to about 55 dollars.

Interestingly enough, everyone in the world besides you values having a real book in their hands as opposed to computer code, and the prices are matched accordingly. Arsenal, for instance, going for 35 dollars in dead-tree and 12 dollars for the pdf out of the Battleshop. Using your bizzare viewpoint that PDFs are worth more, That'd put Unwired's pdf cost at about 102 dollars.

It's fun using numbers!

Have fun pointing out spelling and grammar errors, though. It lets everyone watch you dance around the issue, while having the fun side effect of making you look like an asshat.
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Redjack
post Feb 29 2012, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE (Terms of Service)
1. Personal attacks, flaming, trolling, and baiting are prohibited.


Disagreeing is one thing. Devolving to personal attacks is not debating and any merit of your points are lost in the process.
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Patrick Goodman
post Feb 29 2012, 03:23 PM
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How about we take the math issues to another thread? Also take the personal attacks. I'd like to talk about my story, not price-per-page stats.

Any questions about the content of ARN?
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almost normal
post Feb 29 2012, 04:01 PM
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I apologize. From what I read in the previews, I liked your sense of pace and style. If it was a novel, I'd purchase it.
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Redjack
post Feb 29 2012, 04:37 PM
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I think that comments about the page count are a valid criticism, but there is no need to drive it into the ground. Here is my take:

Not fully sure what to expect, I took the plunge and plunked down my $5.00. My first impression was the same as some other critics: I was a little put off at a page count of 19, including cover, etc. Comparing that to a 383 page pdf novel I just bought for $10, I expected more story. This will cause me hesitation to buy future enhanced fiction products. The story? I liked it a lot. It was a nice change with a good flow. The write ups for the characters were good and obviously reflective of someone familiar with the system. While I will not use them, they could hold value for a one shot run. As noted by an earlier poster, some implicit plot hooks would be a nice feature. I liked the return of the Americar and the special weapons were a nice addition also.

My Review:
3/5 Artwork: The artwork was nice, but honestly the pieces included did not match to the story, except in the character section.
5/5 Story: The story was good. Really liked it.
4/5 Additional Features: Characters, equipment was relevant and reasonably well written. Why not add plot hooks to round it out?
3/5 Overall Value: Page count was incredibly short for the price. The quality of the story is the saving grace here.
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Patrick Goodman
post Feb 29 2012, 04:52 PM
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Okay. These are all things I can, more or less, do something about in future endeavors. The next story in this cycle will be a little longer, and I can definitely add a section with plot hooks, etc., in future EF pieces that I do.

I'm very chuffed that you liked the story. Thanks!
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Feb 29 2012, 06:16 PM
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I have a question about the really expensive pepper sprayer - what skill do you use for hitting a target? Exotic Ranged Weapon: Aerosol Despenser? Or does it grant an Auto-Hit?
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Patrick Goodman
post Feb 29 2012, 06:52 PM
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Like other bracer weapons, it uses Exotic Ranged Weapon (Bracer). I thought I'd mentioned that in the stat line, but I didn't and it got past me. The skill is in McAllister's stat block, though.

Basically, you're rolling to see if you triggered the thing too soon or too late, since the area of effect and range are all basically the length of your arm.
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Pepsi Jedi
post Mar 1 2012, 03:13 PM
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As a side note, the company needs to say how many pages are in the PDF's. I've noticed the last 4 or 5 have not, and this has popped up. I had to come on here and ask about Safehouses and this one too had no page count on the writeups. I think this is intentional. They're hiding just how small the items are, and that's a bit dishonest.

If it's a little thing, that's fine, but tell people. The way it's advertised it's kinda like a full sized book with some stats of main things. I ALMOST bought it till I saw it was 19 pages including cover and such. I can't quite justify an 18 page story at $5. I'd like to read it, but it's like a micro-transaction that's not so micro. If it was 50 pages.. Maybe. But I think I'm going to have to vote with my dollar here. $5 for 19 pages of a digital product is.... well yeah.

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Critias
post Mar 1 2012, 03:43 PM
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What distributor are you looking at, where the page count isn't clearly listed?

At drivethrurpg -- http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?cPath=4543 -- you just have to mouse over any selected title and it tells you Author, Artist, Review Rating, Page Count, and price, all even without clicking on the individual page for the item in question. Then if you do go to the specific page for that particular item, the total page count is right there on the side of the page, along with all the other vital info.
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snowRaven
post Mar 1 2012, 04:41 PM
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QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 1 2012, 04:43 PM) *
What distributor are you looking at, where the page count isn't clearly listed?


Well, to be fair, It doesn't say anything about page count in the BattleShop. It probably should.

However, in comparison to other SR4 titles I think it's fairly obvious what a buyer can expect in terms of size, and comparing to other rpg pdf products I don't feel that SR is overpriced. True, enhanced fiction may not have the same 'value for money' as pdf's aimed solely to rules or adventure, but personally I feel that 'Another Rainy Night' is more worth the purchase than several of the other pdf-only products - for instance the comparably priced 10 Jackpointers, which is nearly twice the page count.

Then again, I like short stories and I'm something of a completionist...
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Patrick Goodman
post Mar 1 2012, 05:02 PM
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ARN's story was almost longer, but I made a conscious decision to actually finish the damn thing before I started embellishing it...and when I had and I read it, I thought it was pretty solid at that length. So rather than pad things out, I chose to hone what was there. That's really not my natural length, though, so I was very surprised with how well it came out.

"Father to Son," which I'm working on now, will probably be a bit longer than ARN just because of the nature of the story; there are several flashbacks, for instance. It'll take a little more time to develop things. After the good experience I had with ARN, though, I'm not forcing a word count. We'll see how it turns out.

I do want folks to understand that I do understand the problems some of them are having with the page count for this. Some of it is my fault, some of it's not, but I do understand why some people aren't going for this.
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Critias
post Mar 1 2012, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE (snowRaven @ Mar 1 2012, 12:41 PM) *
Well, to be fair, It doesn't say anything about page count in the BattleShop. It probably should.

To clarify: I didn't mean to sound argumentative or anything, I just genuinely was wanting to know where he was looking. I tend to go to DriveThruRpg for all my pdf goodies lately, so I'm not terribly familiar with the layout of whatever other options there are. I wasn't trying to accuse him of being disingenuous, and if I came off that way I really do apologize, I was just asking.
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Pepsi Jedi
post Mar 1 2012, 09:25 PM
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No worries.

There is no emotion, there is peace.

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Patrick Goodman
post Mar 1 2012, 11:04 PM
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I have a request. If you've purchased Another Rainy Night, whether it be from BattleShop, DriveThru, or RPGNow, please do me a favor. Go back to the site you bought it from and give it a rating. You don't have to write a full-on review of the thing (though if you want to, you're welcome to do so). But give it a rating. Those numbers help other people find the product, or give them an idea of what to think of the product, and help them figure out whether or not they should buy the thing.

Thanks again for your support.
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snowRaven
post Mar 2 2012, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Mar 2 2012, 12:04 AM) *
I have a request. If you've purchased Another Rainy Night, whether it be from BattleShop, DriveThru, or RPGNow, please do me a favor. Go back to the site you bought it from and give it a rating. You don't have to write a full-on review of the thing (though if you want to, you're welcome to do so). But give it a rating. Those numbers help other people find the product, or give them an idea of what to think of the product, and help them figure out whether or not they should buy the thing.

Thanks again for your support.


We can give ratings on BattleShop? I've missed that completely.

Looks like I suddenly have a lot do...

Edit: Ahhh - it's attached to 'write review'. I'll do one of those then =)
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Fatum
post Mar 2 2012, 04:08 PM
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Weaponized shavings for 150 bucks per dose (for simplicity's sake, 1 is about the same as 1$ in its cost...)?! Are those red wood shavings or what?
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faustaff
post Mar 2 2012, 05:21 PM
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While on the topic of the Viper ammo, is there a reason why it is only +2 to impact armor instead of the regular +5? Or does that somehow explain the high cost? I did enjoy the story and characters.
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Nemo
post Mar 2 2012, 06:06 PM
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When Thomas und Lydia Shake Hands at their first meeting, Thomas feels an induction pad in Lydias palm. According to her stats she has a regular wireless smartlink, not one of the old smartlinks with induction pads.

Since there are 15 attacks in the various North-Am captials and only 11 succed, this is an plot hook. It would have been helpful to know, which of this attacks will be used in future publications and which will not be detailed. If a gaming group will tie in one of these attacks, a story collision between the player group history and the canon history could be avoided.
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Patrick Goodman
post Mar 2 2012, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (Fatum @ Mar 2 2012, 10:08 AM) *
Weaponized shavings for 150 bucks per dose (for simplicity's sake, 1 is about the same as 1$ in its cost...)?! Are those red wood shavings or what?

Thomas is a traditionalist and uses ash wood. It's a relatively rare commodity in the strip-mined, deforested Sixth World. There's also the fact that there's some processing that goes into the "toxin" form. This isn't just sawdust off the floor of your high school wood shop; it's ground down to a very fine powder, and when you start working it down like that, there aren't a lot of applications for it. Limited supply, limited demand, limited target market...high prices.
QUOTE (faustaff @ Mar 2 2012, 11:21 AM) *
While on the topic of the Viper ammo, is there a reason why it is only +2 to impact armor instead of the regular +5? Or does that somehow explain the high cost? I did enjoy the story and characters.

Glad you liked the story.

The wooden sliver rounds are a specialty ammo, and I used the same format used in Arsenal for specialty ammo. The DV and AP modifiers shown for the ammo are modifiers for the base DV and AP of the weapon. So you take the +2 AP of the ammo, and add it to the stock +5 AP of the Viper, you wind up with a +7 AP. This is reflected in Thomas's stat block.

The cost is indicative, as I mentioned above, of the rarity of wood in the Sixth World. Also in the fine workmanship required to make the slivers to the proper tolerances to work properly in the weapon.
QUOTE (Nemo @ Mar 2 2012, 12:06 PM) *
When Thomas und Lydia Shake Hands at their first meeting, Thomas feels an induction pad in Lydias palm. According to her stats she has a regular wireless smartlink, not one of the old smartlinks with induction pads.

She was cybered before the stupid notion of wireless cyberware and smartlink systems even existed. (Thomas's smartlink, for the record, is wireless; he's yet to pay for that particular bit of foolishness, but I'm sure it's coming.) There's some handwavium involved in modeling older characters; I used what was available to me to simulate her cyberware and her gear, and then added handwavium and honestly hoped no one would notice. The SR4A rules, as written, assume no one had any sort of augmentations prior to Crash 2.0, and got all of their modifications out of the blue one day after 2070; its ability to model characters who have some mileage on them is horrendous, IMO (I do not speak for Catalyst Game Labs here, just for me).

None of her stuff is wireless; all her cyber is DNI, and her weapons (and their systems) require physical contact to interface with her cyber systems. This is by design.

All that said, I ask the following with all sincerity and no irony or snark whatsoever: Tell me where to find some of these "old" systems you believe I should have used? I really would like to know.
QUOTE
Since there are 15 attacks in the various North-Am captials and only 11 succed, this is an plot hook. It would have been helpful to know, which of this attacks will be used in future publications and which will not be detailed. If a gaming group will tie in one of these attacks, a story collision between the player group history and the canon history could be avoided.

The lack of a "Plot Hooks" section has been noted, and will be addressed in future products (at least ones for which I am responsible).

The Halloween attacks (all of them took place after midnight local time on 31 October 2073) took place in the following cities (for those who don't know all the North American capitals or are just too lazy to look them up): Atlanta, Bellingham, Cara'Sir (Portland), Cheyenne, Denver, Edmonton, Havana, Honolulu, Quebec City, Sacramento, Santa Fe, Saskatoon, Seattle, Tenochtitlan, and Washington FDC. They failed in Denver, Honolulu, Sacrament0, and Tenochtitlan. The would-be killer in Tenochtitlan was killed; the other three failed assassins escaped.

Yes, that means that there was someone else in Denver while Teresa was hanging out there.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 2 2012, 08:51 PM
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Hey Patrick...

For Old Cyber Systems, just use the Essence cost for the Old 3rd Edition Systems. Seems to work out pretty well.
As for Costs, well, I would use the current prices with a small Increase/Discount (maybe 10% either direction depending upon your POV) due to being Obsolescent.
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