Is the GMC bulldog really this crap? Options

[ShadowDragon8685]

I was looking up stats for a vehicle that would be pretty ubiquitous in Seattle and was big enough to hold a team of armed Vory soldiers and I thought "hey, the GMC Bulldog. It's the stereotypical Rigger Van."

Then I look at it... What the chrome?

It has an acceleration rating of 5/10. 5/10. By way of comparison, a Zuggsmaschine - that is, a tractor-trailer - with semi-trailer attached, accelerates at 5/20. The van will lose a drag race against a laden semi-trailer. An unladen one will smoke it.

It's gotta be a misprint somehow, isn't it? I mean, that's crap beyond crap. The Evo Orderly - an anthroform mobility chair for elderly Japanese people - accelerates faster than that!

[Yerameyahu]

*shrug* When does that stat even come up? If it bothers you, just change the number (the very similar Gopher pickup has /20, as well).

[CanRay]

Major torque differences. Van engines are cramped and tight, while the Zuggsmaschine is a Long-Nosed Tractor and can have a big CAT engine (Or some such) to give it better performance.

I figure a Cab-Over Tractor-Trailer would have the same accel.

Also, do you figure any Rigger Stepvan would be STOCK?

[ShadowDragon8685]

Actually, the Zuggsmaschine is a cab-over. And while a Rigger's van wouldn't really be stock, I can't imagine that they'd start something that would (badly) lose a drag race with a personal mobility vehicle (the Horseman) or (and this one is important) an Ares CityMaster/RoadMaster.

[CanRay]

Well, it all depends on the stock engine/transmission for either. The GMC Stepvan might be designed for pure torque, as it's supposed to haul heavy loads inside a city, while the Zuggsmaschine is designed for highway travel, and gives up a bit of torque at the higher gears to get that fast.

As for the PMV, I'm amazed how zippy some compact and sub-compact cars can be due to low weight.

The CityMaster, OTOH, is designed as a Almost-Military vehicle. The RoadMaster should have less, however, as it's outright stated that it's engine and transmission are overworked.

[Yerameyahu]

The Run/Walk values for all vehicles are pretty crazy, but the van *should* be slow… and it is. Step vans are big and lame. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Top speed is probably more important, and that's low as well. It's a heavy, armored van with a weak engine. The *masters are more expensive and apparently have much better engines.

[CanRay]

Yes, with the RoadMaster being a downgraded version of the CityMaster's engine and transmission to make it civilian legal. They operate at nearly the same level, but burn out fast.

[CanRay]

Anyhow, I think all the cool teams are upgrading to Rover 2068s now or something.

[Yerameyahu]

I prefer the Hotspur. Walls and roofs are for sissies.

Incidentally, the Hermes van (Arsenal) is as bad/worse (higher cost) than the Bulldog.

The Zug is bad comparison because it costs almost triple what the Bulldog does.

Is it me, or does the Rover fluff specifically say, twice, that it's expensive? It's… not. :/

[CanRay]

I really got to go through the vehicles again...

Oh, how many 'runners are using the new Station Wagon or Chuckwagon?

[Yerameyahu]

If I did want a roof, though, how about the COP? Avail 6R, 18k¥, looks solid. Slightly worse than the Rover, a bit cheaper. Unless you just gotta have the 16 Body (and presumably, cargo space) of the Bulldog.

[Froggie]

My upcoming character is thinking of a Gaz P-179 for life out in Puyallup and gear/swag/body hauling.

But he's not a rigger.

[CanRay]

Personal vehicles are just a matter of taste.

The 'Run-Mobile, OTOH... Yeah, it's gotta have space for the team and gear. So, Van, SUV, Station Wagon...

[Froggie]

Isn't the idea of a team van a bit of a TV trope from A-Team and all that? You don't really need one, especially if your team is a bunch of dirty squatters (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

But seriously, I vote for the Hermes - ubiquitous & drone launching bays? Yes please.

[CanRay]

C-N Jackrabbit. And make the Troll sit in the back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[KarmaInferno]

Motorcycle with four sidecars.

...what?





-k

[Froggie]

Or a Troll driver taking up the entire internal space of a Honda Spirit subcompact, with an lucky passenger smeared up against the bubble hood. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[CanRay]

Motorcycle with four sidecars.

...what?

-k

DETHKLOK!!!

\m/ O \m/

[Froggie]

Back on topic somewhat:

I always considered the acceleration rates to only be useful when you're dealing with vehicles in very tight spaces/distances. So, not in any sort of chase or race situation.

So, for example. When you need your vehicle to get to that point over there, you can see that you can safely drive, and without disruption to people in the BMC bulldog a distance of 5 meters, and coming to a complete stop, in 3 seconds while starting from a stationary position.

[Udoshi]

On a whole I feel that the Arsenal vehicles just had better sense-makey stats than the Core Book ones.

The bulldog suffers from not being in that book.

I was looking up stats for a vehicle that would be pretty ubiquitous in Seattle and was big enough to hold a team of armed Vory soldiers and I thought "hey, the GMC Bulldog. It's the stereotypical Rigger Van."

Then I look at it... What the chrome?

It has an acceleration rating of 5/10. 5/10. By way of comparison, a Zuggsmaschine - that is, a tractor-trailer - with semi-trailer attached, accelerates at 5/20. The van will lose a drag race against a laden semi-trailer. An unladen one will smoke it.

It's gotta be a misprint somehow, isn't it? I mean, that's crap beyond crap. The Evo Orderly - an anthroform mobility chair for elderly Japanese people - accelerates faster than that!

Let me put this into perspective for you.
Acceleration isn't acceleration, its your Walking and Running rates.
Stupid, but hey, sure, whatever SR4. Where's my grain of salt...

An iBall rolls faster than your truck. (3/15)
A stupid remote control doohickey that you would find at a toys-r-us is faster than your van.

The 'intentionally gimped manservant?' yeah, its faster than you. (5/15).

For tactical combat, only the top-end acceleration really matters.


If the bulldog is solid, well-balanced platform that turns like a brick, it should have a high Walking speed and a lower top Running - still get the -2 for running, so its a way to reflect stability over speed.

[TwoDee]

Something I have learned with my shiny new drive-master-build character:

Big clunky vehicle=no.

Hyundai Shin-Hyung with every single speed and acceleration mod in the book=yes.

The engineer player in our group worked out that merely driving it would be enough to cause whiplash in an unaugmented human by real life physics.

[SpellBinder]

*shrug* When does that stat even come up? If it bothers you, just change the number (the very similar Gopher pickup has /20, as well).

Meh. I'd go with this ^^^, especially if you're wanting something not made for the typical wage slave. Just say it's got a bigger engine and a different transmission in it, and that the factory floor model is built like crap.

Besides, the last time I drove a van the acceleration did suck as much as a semi's.

[Midas]

Yop, the GMC StepVan is pretty shitty in terms of max speed and acceleration. You would have thought it would have more bang for its overpriced price tag though ... Advantage is it's ubiquity in Seattle, cops likely won't give one a second glance usually.

For your Vory thugs though, I second that Rover 2068 emotion. Cheaper, faster and definitely the black chrome paintwork ...

[snowRaven]

My players are using a Stepvan atm - then again, they are currently running in Manhattan, so blending in is a lot more important than speed...

[CanRay]

Yop, the GMC StepVan is pretty shitty in terms of max speed and acceleration. You would have thought it would have more bang for its overpriced price tag though ... Advantage is it's ubiquity in Seattle, cops likely won't give one a second glance usually.

I think the cost per unit is high in order to encourage companies to go for the fleet discount.

Don't forget, GMC is owned by Ares!

My players are using a Stepvan atm - then again, they are currently running in Manhattan, so blending in is a lot more important than speed...

Yeah, high speed pursuits last, what, a block and a half at most?