Suggestions on dealing with invisibility & mind control |
Suggestions on dealing with invisibility & mind control |
Mar 23 2012, 05:00 PM
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#1
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Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 8-April 08 Member No.: 15,863 |
I have a player in my group who plays a hermetic mage and is fond of cruising around cloaked in improved invisibility all the time. Pretty much whenever there is a hostile NPC, he uses control thoughts to get the NPC to do his bidding. While a decent strategy, this really puts a damper on the tension and excitement of the campaign, not to mention that he tends to override NPCs which I have planned to divulge interesting information.
Any suggestions what I can do to deter this type of behavior? |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:03 PM
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#2
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
He must be leaving huge trails (especially astral), and there are people a lot more powerful than he is.
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Mar 23 2012, 05:10 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
I have a player in my group who plays a hermetic mage and is fond of cruising around cloaked in improved invisibility all the time. Pretty much whenever there is a hostile NPC, he uses control thoughts to get the NPC to do his bidding. While a decent strategy, this really puts a damper on the tension and excitement of the campaign, not to mention that he tends to override NPCs which I have planned to divulge interesting information. Any suggestions what I can do to deter this type of behavior? You could ask him to stop being a dick. I tried this while running a 3rd edition game, and it worked like a charm. Sustaining mana spells used to keep you active on the astral plane (so did using a sustaining focus); I'm not sure if that's still true, but if it is he's in for a world of hurt from a bunch of things that can see/harm him with impunity, unless he a) is astrally perceiving at all times to see them coming and b) has a good Astral Combat pool. Or, you know, just send some drones after him. |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:11 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 27-February 12 From: Nebraska, USA Member No.: 50,732 |
I have a player who does the invis thing too.
So in theory, a player maintaining Improved Invis would still show up astrally, in fact, very strongly, yes? |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:16 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Banned Posts: 1,105 Joined: 23-August 10 Member No.: 18,961 |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:16 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
I have a player who does the invis thing too. So in theory, a player maintaining Improved Invis would still show up astrally, in fact, very strongly, yes? Oh, most definitely. Anyone with astral perception would see him immediately (and could target him, either with spells or a gun). Also, keep in mind that any time he passes through a ward there's a chance for the spell to pop, and nearly any secured building is going to be heavily warded. |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:17 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Banned Posts: 1,105 Joined: 23-August 10 Member No.: 18,961 |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:19 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:21 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 27-February 12 From: Nebraska, USA Member No.: 50,732 |
Oh, most definitely. Anyone with astral perception would see him immediately (and could target him, either with spells or a gun). Also, keep in mind that any time he passes through a ward there's a chance for the spell to pop, and nearly any secured building is going to be heavily warded. So what about a spirit? If it was manifested, would it have to switch back to see him, or does it see in both realms at once? |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:25 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 664 Joined: 26-September 11 Member No.: 39,030 |
I outlined some measures I use here-
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=1135793 Also, don't forget to roll for the continuing resistance to control thoughts. He should really only have about a minute of control before he has to cast again. |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:26 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
So what about a spirit? If it was manifested, would it have to switch back to see him, or does it see in both realms at once? A manifested spirit is dual-natured, so it exists on the physical and astral planes at the same time. But keep in mind, the spirit doesn't have to manifest to attack him if he is active on the astral plane. Again, I'm not sure that this is still the case in 4th edition, but sustaining spells used to keep you visible/active on the astral plane. |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:30 PM
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#12
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Dragon Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,258 Joined: 9-March 10 From: The Citadel Member No.: 18,267 |
Pretty sure that this has been removed in SR4...although perhaps foci can be disrupted?!? Don't think you can ground spells through them any more though.
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Mar 23 2012, 05:37 PM
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#13
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
I'd start by ensuring you're actually running the rules as written-obviously plus or minus any house rules. "Mind Control" spells do not automatically equate to victory. Once you've ensured you're using the appropriate rules or not, then I'd start looking at the opposition. If they've cake walked through a few runs have their employer step up his game-"Gee since you guys are so awesome, have I got a job for you!" Start having the opposition respond to the increased usage of these spells-start slowly, suddenly they notice security people stay behind the one way glass, or the remote gun turrets. Gradually up the pressure until it becomes competitive again. The idea is, of course, to make it a challenge but not smash them for fun. Make use of edge and an opponents will to live. (No one takes a security job to eat a bullet, not even in the Sixth World.)
Thorya's thread has a few decent ideas, and I am sure with a little more information we could help you out. Outline the team, the plot and what you're looking to do. We can then start adding in depth commentary if you'd like. But whatever you do just don't screw the player because you're momentarily stumped on how to adjust the game to his creativeness. There's no quicker way to make the game not fun by doing that. Smile, chuckle and say "You guys got down! Yup. Now that the cake walk runs are out of the way, time to get into the real nightmare whirlwind of betrayal and danger! Hope you enjoyed your prep time!" Then show'em who Daddy is, and what he does. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif) |
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Mar 23 2012, 05:42 PM
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#14
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Don't forget that you guys are referring to a materialized spirit, not manifested. Everyone mixes them up, they're annoyingly similar.
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Mar 23 2012, 05:43 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
Pretty sure that this has been removed in SR4...although perhaps foci can be disrupted?!? Don't think you can ground spells through them any more though. I'd have to check my books, but you may be right. The spells would still be visible on the astral, though, and spells sustained by sustaining foci still get popped by passing through wards (which, again, are common because any awakened person can make them). |
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Mar 23 2012, 06:00 PM
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#16
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,328 Joined: 2-April 07 From: The Center of the Universe Member No.: 11,360 |
I have a player in my group who plays a hermetic mage and is fond of cruising around cloaked in improved invisibility all the time. Pretty much whenever there is a hostile NPC, he uses control thoughts to get the NPC to do his bidding. While a decent strategy, this really puts a damper on the tension and excitement of the campaign, not to mention that he tends to override NPCs which I have planned to divulge interesting information. Any suggestions what I can do to deter this type of behavior? Have an astral KE mage show up with two force 6 elementals and a watcher and ask him to wait until the KE Occult Investigations Unit comes to check out his liscense and registration. Bad form on his part. Take him back to the precinct, have him interrogated. Later he gets a message from a watcher from said KE mage saying--you owe me, and if I catch you again.. If he is doing it on the run, wards and an astral mage does wonders. He would have to ineffect cast it twice (once on the astral, and once onf the physical to avoid this. Ultrasound on a drone with a taser or LMG if you want also negates invisibility. |
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Mar 23 2012, 06:21 PM
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#17
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
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Mar 23 2012, 06:21 PM
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#18
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
I outlined some measures I use here- http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=1135793 Also, don't forget to roll for the continuing resistance to control thoughts. He should really only have about a minute of control before he has to cast again. It will generally be FAR less than a Minute... Force 6 is every 18 Seconds, after all... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Mar 23 2012, 06:24 PM
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#19
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
A manifested spirit is dual-natured, so it exists on the physical and astral planes at the same time. But keep in mind, the spirit doesn't have to manifest to attack him if he is active on the astral plane. Again, I'm not sure that this is still the case in 4th edition, but sustaining spells used to keep you visible/active on the astral plane. You cannot ground spells through a Foci or active spell in 4th Edition. Best you could do is disrupt the foci, or Dispell the Spell. If you are on the same plane (and Astrally perceiving) you could also Counterspell the Spell (or just shoot the Mage). |
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Mar 23 2012, 07:56 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
Don't forget that you guys are referring to a materialized spirit, not manifested. Everyone mixes them up, they're annoyingly similar. A spirit doesn't have to manifest OR materialize to attack a mage astrally. EDIT: In 4th edition, he would have to be astrally perceiving for you to do so, of course. |
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Mar 23 2012, 08:41 PM
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#21
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
That's true, but not what I was talking about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The comments were talking about materialization, but accidentally calling it manifestation; a common mixup.
The mage in question (wrapped in spells) is indeed visible by anything with astral sense: astral and materialized spirits, astral perceiving/projecting mages, etc. |
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Mar 23 2012, 08:56 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
That's true, but not what I was talking about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The comments were talking about materialization, but accidentally calling it manifestation; a common mixup. The mage in question (wrapped in spells) is indeed visible by anything with astral sense: astral and materialized spirits, astral perceiving/projecting mages, etc. I was referring to my comment (which is what I thought you were referring to). I said manifesting, and I meant it. But I can see what you're talking about now; either way though, his question made sense. A manifesting spirit is still present on the astral, and a materialized spirit is still present on the astral. |
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Mar 23 2012, 09:02 PM
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#23
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Yes. In both cases, the spirit is using his astral sense, and will see the active spells/foci. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
If he meant 'manifesting', then I retract everything, but I don't see how a manifesting spirit could possibly 'switch back' or 'see in both realms at once', because manifesting grants no physical senses at all (you're still 100% astral). |
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Mar 23 2012, 09:08 PM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
Yes. In both cases, the spirit is using his astral sense, and will see the active spells/foci. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) If he meant 'manifesting', then I retract everything, but I don't see how a manifesting spirit could possibly 'switch back' or 'see in both realms at once', because manifesting grants no physical senses at all (you're still 100% astral). Manifesting, as described on p.193, states that you cannot physically interact with anything on the physical plane, but there's nothing to suggest that you are unable to see things on the physical plane. I recall some fluff to that effect in previous editions, but much like attacking someone through their active foci, I don't think it made the transition to 4th. I don't have Street Magic on me, though. |
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Mar 23 2012, 09:15 PM
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#25
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
I'm open to the possibility that I remembered wrong, but I could've sworn this was a key limitation of manifesting (at least in SR4). :/
Re: active foci, I meant to ask earlier: can you attack *them* directly (deactivating them), or is that only for projecting mages? I feel like I recalled something like that. |
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