Minmaxing for odd things Options

[Umidori]

(IMG:http://i39.tinypic.com/2hn585e.jpg)

Seriously guys? You're still at it?

Just agree to disagree already. It's not like you're playing a goddamn campaign together. I know we're theory-crafting how to min/max for odd things, but I gotta say min/maxing for petty and senseless bickering is probably the oddest choice I've seen yet.

~Umidori

[Xenefungus]

(IMG:http://i39.tinypic.com/2hn585e.jpg)

Seriously guys? You're still at it?

Just agree to disagree already. It's not like you're playing a goddamn campaign together. I know we're theory-crafting how to min/max for odd things, but I gotta say min/maxing for petty and senseless bickering is probably the oddest choice I've seen yet.

~Umidori

+1 from me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DireRadiant]

Thanks everyone.

Leave modding to the mods please. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[_Pax._]

No, actually DireRadiant, they're right. I should have just laughed at them and dropped the subject pages ago. And I don't think they're out of line for finally (and reasonably politely) expressing exasperation with the ongoing back-and-forth.



My apologies to everyone (except certain parties whose identities should be stupendously obvious) for my part in continuing this mess. Sometimes I find it difficult to let go of something; my inner Rules Lawyer gets it's teeth into something and just hangs on, "victory or death" style. I won't continue the argument any longer.

[Neraph]

In other news, and back to the OP, I found out how to make a character hold their breath for 5 hours without any implants at all: Oxygenated Flourocarbons and R5 Oxyrush. Granted, it only initially lasts a week, but it's also renewable.

[Xenefungus]

Thanks for posting on topic, Neraph (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

You reminded me of my aqua-human: 24 dice for swimming with a doubled base swimming rate and doubled meter per hits.
And yes, he does look like a beaver-frog-fish mutant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Why go without implants?
With the internal Bomb . . err, Air-Tank, you can get many more hours out of that.
Of course, you could probably simply get a set of gills and call it a day too x.x . .

[Umidori]

Currently working on a pretty tricky character conversion, just to see if I can do it. Will post my build when I'm done, but I'm actually finding this guy oddly playable as I go, although some of his more unusual qualities are hard to find rules to represent. I think, once I reveal who it is, folks might find it as amusing as I currently am. For now though, I need sleep - and to stop staying up all through the night.

~Umidori

[Stahlseele]

I once had a character that had every single piece of cyber-weaponry built into his Body.
Another character did a combination of voice-stuff to try and get his cyber to replicat the ares sonic screech rifle.

[_Pax._]

Why go without implants?
With the internal Bomb . . err, Air-Tank, you can get many more hours out of that.
Of course, you could probably simply get a set of gills and call it a day too x.x . .

Gills only work underwater. Neraph's trick works on dry land, when the nerve-gas bomb has gone off ...

[Neraph]

Gills only work underwater. Neraph's trick works on dry land, when the nerve-gas bomb has gone off ...

And it's inexpensive (-ish, 7k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) and costs no Essence. That was kinda the point.

[_Pax._]

Okay, min-maxing. Makign this a functional character would be very very hard,BUT:

Bog standard Ork, with dead average stats - exept for Body, which is 8. Get Changeling (2), and pick up Shiva Arms.

Next, get Dermal Sheath (2), alpha grade.

Then - this is the important part - cut off both legs and all four arms, and buy alpha-grade Obvious cyberlimbs for each, matching the Body 8 / Agility 3 / Strength 5 of the character. And, each with Enhanced Armor (2).

Finally, buy and wear an Armor Jacket, Form Fitting Body Armor (Full Suit), a standard Helmet, and the entire Securetech PPP line (except the helmet).



No armor encumbrance, and an astounding 31/29 armor rating (on a Body of 8 ) ... and six extra boxes for the Physical Condition Monitor (for a total of 18).



^_^ I know I could get more soak dice out of other builds ... and granted, affording all that requires the "Born Rich" quality, the Shiva arms require Class II SURGE, and after all that you're down to 121BP for the rest of the character (1 of which can be spent on gear, adding to the current 4,900 nuyen unspent).

But come on, THIRTY ONE ballistic and TWENTY NINE Impact armor ...!!

(And, a sudden urge for me to slightly tweak the rules for cyberlimb armor. Just a wee tiny bit.)

[almost normal]

Spiderman's enemy, Dr. Orktapus?

[_Pax._]

LOL - maybe for the downside of that SURGE, take Cephalapoid Skull ...!!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

^_^ I know I could get more soak dice out of other builds ... and granted, affording all that requires the "Born Rich" quality, the Shiva arms require Class II SURGE, and after all that you're down to 121BP for the rest of the character (1 of which can be spent on gear, adding to the current 4,900 nuyen unspent).

But come on, THIRTY ONE ballistic and TWENTY NINE Impact armor ...!!

(And, a sudden urge for me to slightly tweak the rules for cyberlimb armor. Just a wee tiny bit.)

And he falls to the first Magician with Stun Bolt because he cannot resist it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[almost normal]

And he falls to the first Magician with Stun Bolt because he cannot resist it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

At that point, I'd be prone to giving him object resistance.

[_Pax._]

And he falls to the first Magician with Stun Bolt because he cannot resist it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I did say he was not a playable character, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

At that point, I'd be prone to giving him object resistance.

No, that comes after he has enough money to upgrade to Deltaware, and add the Obvious Torso and Obvious Cyberskull. And upgrade all then-eight pieces with a full 4 points of armor. 32/32 naked, oh yeah!

[Xenefungus]

(And, a sudden urge for me to slightly tweak the rules for cyberlimb armor. Just a wee tiny bit.)

It's really nothing new that those are drek. It's even been adressed in Damian's Character Sheet already for a couple of years.

[Draco18s]

(And, a sudden urge for me to slightly tweak the rules for cyberlimb armor. Just a wee tiny bit.)

Keeping in mind that buying all of that cybeer armor is VERY nuyen costly.
And you still can't resist spells, social manipulation, or most drugs and diseases.

[almost normal]

Keeping in mind that buying all of that cybeer armor is VERY nuyen costly.
And you still can't resist spells, social manipulation, or most drugs and diseases.

Alternatively, he could do the same build with a meta-type that has innate magical resistances, and if the player has a reasonable GM (who's had a mind altering spell cast on him, so he'd ever accept such an abomination in his game), it wouldn't be unreasonable to rule that most toxins and drugs wouldn't enter his blood stream, having little actual blood left.

[Draco18s]

it wouldn't be unreasonable to rule that most toxins and drugs wouldn't enter his blood stream, having little actual blood left.

AKA, "this build is only overpowered if you stop using RAW and instead start making minor house rules in the build's favor."

[_Pax._]

It's really nothing new that those are drek. It's even been adressed in Damian's Character Sheet already for a couple of years.

It may not be new in general, but, it's a new discovery for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Keeping in mind that buying all of that cybeer armor is VERY nuyen costly.
And you still can't resist spells, social manipulation, or most drugs and diseases.

Yes, I noted the expense of it already. But, you know what? You've prompted me to tweak and revise it somewhat:

Unnamed Hero (Fomori)
B 8, A 3, R 3, S 6, C 2, I 2, L 2, W 5, E 2, Ess 0.15, Init 5, IP 1
Condition Monitor boxes (Physical/Stun): 18/11
Armor (Ballistic/Impact): 36/36
Skills:
Knowledge Skills: English N
Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Thermographic Vision
Qualities: Arcane Arrester, Biocompatibility (Cyberware), Changeling (Class II SURGE), Critter Spook, Mood Hair, Ogre Stomach, Shiva Arms
Cyberware:
. . Cyber Arm (Obvious) (Extra Arm) with Cyberlimb Agility (3), Cyberlimb Body (8 ), Cyberlimb Strength (6), Enhanced Armor +2/+2 (2)
. . . . Spurs
. . Cyber Arm (Obvious) (Extra Arm) with Cyberlimb Agility (3), Cyberlimb Body (8 ), Cyberlimb Strength (6), Enhanced Armor +2/+2 (2)
. . . . Spurs
. . Cyber Arm (Obvious) (Main Hand) with Cyberlimb Agility (3), Cyberlimb Body (8 ), Cyberlimb Strength (6), Enhanced Armor +2/+2 (2)
. . . . Spurs
. . Cyber Arm (Obvious) (Off Hand) with Cyberlimb Agility (3), Cyberlimb Body (8 ), Cyberlimb Strength (6), Enhanced Armor +2/+2 (2)
. . . . Spurs
. . Cyber Leg (Synthetic) with Cyberlimb Agility (3), Cyberlimb Body (8 ), Cyberlimb Strength (6), Enhanced Armor +2/+2 (2)
. . Cyber Leg (Synthetic) with Cyberlimb Agility (3), Cyberlimb Body (8 ), Cyberlimb Strength (6), Enhanced Armor +2/+2 (2)
. . Dermal Plating (1)
Gear:
. . Form-Fitting Full-Body Suit
. . Moonsilver Shawl/Scarf/Stole
. . Riot Control Armor with Fire Resistance, Nonconductivity (1), Shock Frills
. . SecureTech Forearm Guards
. . SecureTech Leg and Arm Casings
. . SecureTech Shin Guards
. . SecureTech Vitals Protector
Weapons:
. . Attack of Will (vs. Spirits) [DV 2P vs. I]
. . Spurs [Blades, DV 6P vs. I, Reach 1]
. . Spurs [Blades, DV 6P vs. I, Reach 1]
. . Spurs [Blades, DV 6P vs. I, Reach 1]
. . Spurs [Blades, DV 6P vs. I, Reach 1]
. . Unarmed Strike [Unarmed, DV 3S vs. I, Reach 1]

No, it's not a complete build; I never intend to play it, so I'm not that interested in completing the build. Heck, I haven't even added the combat skill to use those spurs yet!

But there's only 254/400 build points used, and 194K out of a potential 250K (300K if we go back to Born Rich). Turns out "Biocompatibility: Cyberware" was a better way to go, than Alpha Grade for all those limbs. Meanwhile, he's got a serviceable Will of 5, and Arcane Arrester, to help with spells. Socially he'll be challenged, but even if this wasn't supposed to be a one-dimensional munchkiny min/max ... where's the fun in a character with no weaknesses at all?

[Stahlseele]

That one is dead.
6 Limbs == 6 Essence.
Dermal Plating 1 == 0.5 Essence?
Essence == -0,5. Dead.

[Mäx]

That one is dead.
6 Limbs == 6 Essence.
Dermal Plating 1 == 0.5 Essence?
Essence == -0,5. Dead.

6,5*0,9 is 5,85 essence
Still has 0,15 essence left just as his stat block lists. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[_Pax._]

That one is dead.
6 Limbs == 6 Essence.
Dermal Plating 1 == 0.5 Essence?
Essence == -0,5. Dead.

... ehem:

Turns out "Biocompatibility: Cyberware" was a better way to go, than Alpha Grade for all those limbs.

Biocompatibility reduces the essence cost of either Cyberware or Bioware (depending which you get) by 10%, including during character creation. So it's:

6 Limbs == 5.4 Essence.
Dermal Plating 1 == 0.45 Essence.
Essence == 0.15, "not dead yet!"