So... as shameful as it may be to admit, I have a certain munchkin side to my nature as a gamer. I like to test the limits of a system- not necessarily to the breaking point (see 'Pun-Pun'), but just seeing what I can do if I push things a little. Even if I'm not necessarily planning on playing the character

And with Shadowrun's crazy flexibility... well, while I was building my Trollish 'I hit the things and they fall down' Adept, the Kinesics power caught my eye, and I started wondering what one could end up with if one were to build an Adept Face (Facial Adept..?)

So, I started to putter around on Chummer (wonderful little program, I think I would have gone mad trying to build a Shadowrun character for the first time without it), and eventually managed to spit out a 400 BP Elven Facial Adept with a dice pool of 23 for Con, 22 for Negotiation, and 21 for Etiquette, with 15 in Intimidation and 17 in Leadership rounding out the Charisma-based skills. He's also got passable (not fantastic or anything. but functional enough) doctoring skills, and, if it gets right down to it, he can handle a grenade launcher well enough that he's not too terribly likely to blow his own foot off.

Should anyone happen to care, the core of it was 7 Charisma, and 5s for Intuition, Logic, and Magic. The main concern with the power points was Kinesics (rating 3), and 2.25 power points sunk into Improved Ability (non-combat) for Con, Negotiation and Etiquette (you could probably squeeze a few more points out of that- I grabbed Voice Control and Enhanced Perception as well, partly for flavour and partly for utility).

It kind of amused me to be able to build a character with a dice pool of 23 straight out of chargen (and with fairly minimal investment, could bring that up to 25s across the board for all charisma-based skills) while still being a capable medic, with decent gear and not being completely useless in a fight.

The record for influence skills is ~60 isn't it.

... I honestly have no idea, and I'm slightly frightened by this factoid

I suppose I should mention I did mine strictly from the (non-anniversary) PHB; I'm a near-total noob to all things Shadowrun-ish.

... was that ~60 influence skills straight out of the box? O.o

Yup, straight out of chargen:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=1132195

Just 50ish thugh.
Maybe someone's got a better one in another thread.

Best part is since it is over 50 you can roll 5 dice and just add up the numbers.

Edit: I was including situational modifiers.

Check the Shikima from the second link in my sig for an interesting example of unusual optimization.

5^3 dicks. The math geek in me approves.

Or 32 with the dice pool caps of 20|2x natural attribute+skill (but those are optional, of course).

Bye
Thanee

I think there was a Troll-Built with 45 Dice for climbing stuff.
And even if all of those AND Edge came up ALL ONES he would not fall.
He would simply not advance any further . .
And i think another had 30 to 35 dice for running and/or jumping . .

There was also a character with maxed out Body+armor+fire protections+counterspelling+magic resistance who could survive Insanely Powerful Fireballs... And that was about the only thing he could do.

Hmm, makes me wonder if there's ever been a contest where the goal was not the most tricked-out one trick pony but to see how many different dice pools you can get outragously large for one single character out of char gen.

Easy. Maximum Agility and i think Logic and that should be it for about 80% of the Skills.

If you just want very good in one area, sure.
I was more thinking in the direction of really different things, say each pool has to be based on a different attribute. Prolly just boiles down to one Agility, Logic and Charisma skill each, though. And maybe one for Reaction if 'outragous' is defined sufficiently low.

I once built a combination cyber/bioware-lizardman with rather impressive climbing, jumping, stealth, escape artistry, and intimidation. Basically he was a nutjob freakshow with extreme body modification including a tail, scales, claws, fangs, and more. He'd leap onto sheer walls, cling in place or scurry along the ceiling with his retractable climbing claws, use his voice modulator to shriek ungodly cyber-lizard screeches at 100 decibels, and generally just creep people the zark out.

He could also dodge like a maniac and brawl fairly impressively, and his prefered tactics were leaping onto enemies to subdue them while shrieking his head off, and purposefully drawing fire off of his team because he had plenty of dice to defend with on full defense. It worked ridiculously well for the couple of sessions we got to play, then the campaign sadly had to be put on hiatus. Wish I'd kept the character sheet, but I may rebuild him some day.

Oh, and he also had modular cyberlimbs and strong composure rolls so that he could be taken apart and stuffed in a shielded crate or a suitcase or whatnot in order to smuggle him into places that would turn him away simply because of how freaky he looked. Barring that, he'd infiltrate and hope for the best. Even when it backfired it tended to be at least partly beneficial, because he'd cause a distraction elsewhere while the rest of the team did their thing.

I dunno. I tend to play support characters designed to operate in tandem with, but separated from, their teammates.

~Umidori

- A Centaur
- Surged with Celerity and Satyr Legs
- Equipped with skimmer disks
Runs at around 350km/h without sprinting.
You can add the Movement power on top of that.

Oh yeah, and I got him Elongated Limbs and Martial Art (Capoeira).

And just for fun you put him in rollerblades too, right?

~Umidori

The trick to making a Master of all Trades is using skill, Attribute, and dice pool boosts, which Shadowrun has plenty of. A lockpick gun can give you +6 to lockpicking, empathy software can give you +6 to all social skills, a medkit can give you +6 to first aid checks, muscle toner: 4 gives you +4 to a wide number of skills, and so on.

Also, some things, like gymnastics and social skills, have multiple, stacking bonuses that they can get. The pornomancer has been done a zillion times, so... gymnastics. You have satyr legs, synthcardium, Neo-EPO, enhanced articulation, a reflex recorder, the improved ability adept power, muscle toner and/or suprathyroid gland to raise that Agility, and I've probably missed a few.

You should min-max to figure out how many guns you can carry on your body (and still fire them all at once).

Most I can think off (off the cuff) is 11. Don't know if it's possible to buy all the gear needed to make it happen at chargen though.

I assume you've already included the Nartaki heritage?

Also, does insane ranks of Juggling, and a dozen pistols, count?

Hadn't considered juggling.
Not sure if that would be considered at the same time if he could shoot them.

But yes, Nartaki already included.

.... there's also Emotitoys with gecko tips, and (External, Remote, Flexible) Weapon Mounts ... and Trolls have an AWFUL LOT of real-estate for those suckers to clamber around on ...

I can get a well-modded FN 93 Praetor into an Emotitoy. Electronic firing (std), low-light Flashlight (std) Sound Suppressor, Additional Clip, and 100 subsonic rounds ... a Pilot 4 with Targeting (Automatics) 4 ... whisper-quiet death, in a cute cuddly Furby-like package!! ^_^

Welcome to the system. Now go remake all the archetypes, cause they suck. Then, compare yours to Umaro's.

Someone should run an Iron Chummer.

And your secret ingredient today is..... Demolitions! Everyone's favorite! Pump that skill as high as it can go, and try to survive the explosive ordnance disposal challenge course afterwards!

Or more interestingly, biggest bomb (measured in damage, not weight) right out of chargen. Pumping logic and the skill (with aptitude) is a given, but how much money would you want to sacrifice from your bomb towards pumping that skill...

Ah, i actully forgot about the most broken way to be a true jack of all trades.
Pump ALL ATTRIBUTES as high as possible.
Skillwires. Move By Wire 2 Beta should work pretty good.
Then get a level 3/3 group connection to a warez network specializing in skill soft.
Then get one comlink completely maxed out for searching stuff on the innernets.
Presto, in 3 Days Game-Time, you can have every last single skillsoft in te books for 10% of the list price, if they did not fix that.

Remember that aside from Magical and Emergent Skills only the Exotic Weapons-Skills can not be had as Skill-Soft.
EVERY OTHER SKILL WORKS.

Just get them pirated. Pirating is for free.

No, actually they aren't.
Have you not read the rules on pirated software?

Oh sorry, freeware it's called

Piloting Origin AI. Autosofts are cheaper and more readily available. Look at Section 3.

Yeah, but then you are an AI . .

... which means, you can hack your way into a Tank, and get REALLY powerful.

You are also helpless against anything that can clim on top of you.

Eh. That's what the Rotodrone is for. any reasonably competently-designed Tank should have a Launch Bay for one or two drones, EXACTLY for that purpose (plus playing "spotter" for indirect fire over hills, buildings, etc).

OOOOOO, neat thought: a TacNet with a dozen or more flyign minidrones available to it ...!!

Okay, so not entirely an "odd" thing, but I'm making an NPC for my game, and I want him specifically optimized for brute-force combat without using augmentation, and he's human.

For those who've played it, he's an homage to Max Bax from the cyberpunk computer game Bloodnet: A fanatic christian giant of a man, who proudly boasts of strangling sinners and throwing CEOs that threaten the local diocese off a skyraker!

So he's a normal human with Guts, Magic Resistance, Will to Live, Code of Honor (Made him a Sylvestrine monk connected with the Vatican for the game), Bi-Polar, Impaired Stat (Logic ), Prej: Atheists (Active).

I've then given ham longarms and Unarmed Combat with the Subdual specialty and maxed out his Strength, representing his urge to close and hogtie or strangle his foes. I could go Adept, but I think the concept is more awe-inspiring if he's just a normal nutcase who has just his faith and his guts to see him through.

Doesn't have to follow 400 BP, he's an NPC for my game, so all suggestions are welcome.

E: perhaps bone lacing would be an idea. Then he's a hard hitter, and can take a little bit of a licking.

Changeling, and Metagenic Qualities. Especially, to boost his Strength. Maybe Exceptional Strength, too - a STR 8 human would be scary, neh?

OTOH, are you dead-set that he really IS human? What about being an Ork, and having "Human-Looking" ...? Short of a full DNA workup, noone would ever know he WASN'T just an impossibly-tough human ...

As for the bone-lacing thing? You might want to consider Bone Density augments (bioware).

Not 100 percent dead set, but I like the concept of a religious murderer and shadowrunner who is so convinced of himself (and strong) that he sets out to throttle people using his bare hands.

I might look into the bone density augments, that fits the concept imho. Changeling would work, but that messes with the "pure human" concept.

E: Yeah that's real good, I wanted him to be real tall and heavy besides dealing P damage with his hands - fits with them increasing his weight!

With his specialty in subdual, he has 10 dice to grapple, and can maintain the hold while causing 6S every round as long as it sticks: Agi 4 + Unarmed 4 + specialization. Can't hold his own against augmented characters, but it works decently for my "crush people" plan.

E E: That raises a question. When you have an upgrade or power that lets you deal P damage with your hands, does that include the subdual damage technique, or is that still stun? If not, this works even better!

You know ... if he was truly BORN human, then underwent UGE, expressing as an Ork? Well, if it was an especially MILD UGE, and maybe coincided with some other, normal-ish childhood illness?

Even he might not know he's really an Ork. Honestly, what reason would he neccessarily have to suspect it?

And the humor of that unwitting hypocrisy, that's ... appealing to me.

For a Self-Professed PowerGamer, and someone who claims to have read the rules. _Pax_, you do not seem to have a very functional grasp of them... Emotitoys CANNOT mount a Weapon Mount, by the rules. They do not have the Body Requirement for the Modification (Requires a Body 3+). So, if they do not come with one standard (and they do not), you cannot mod them out with one.

This is the best thing I have ever heard.

Apparently, despite your ad hominem, I have a better understanding than you:

As a general rule, one normal weapon mount can be added to a vehicle for every 3 points of Body it has, rounded up.
(Arsenal, page 147.)

Note that bit there, "rounded up". A Body 1 vehicle, a Body 2 vehicle, and a Body 3 vehicle can all mount one, single weapon mount. Most importantly, nowhere is a minimum body of 3+ listed as a prerequisite for a drone or vehicle to have a weapon mount at all. Clerly a GM would have to use logic in terms of the size of the weapon actually mounted - some are small enough that a hold-out or light pistol is probably the most they should reasonably carry. But again: anything with a body of 1, 2, or 3 can have one weapon mount.

Furthermore, let me hold up an example, the Ferret RPD-1X (Arsenal p118) a drone with Body 2, and yet in it's decription:

Different models of Ferrets have now been used as perimeter drones for over a decade. Designed as a low-profile observation drone, some versions come equipped with small weaponry, [...]

Oh, and on the same page, the Ares Sentinel "R" Series, also Body 2, and:

Std. Upgrades: Track Propulsion, Weapon Mount

Oh, wait, a third example, the Modified GMC Chariot, right on the very next page. It's also Body 2, and:

Std. Upgrades: Weapon Mount (concealed, fixed, remote control)

... so, um ... would you like some salt to go with that crow? Maybe a glass of I'm-so-sorry to wash it down?

Yes. As far as "Arsenal" goes, weapon mounts are now possible for smaller drones (as long as you think of "Arsenal" "overruling" SR4A, which I do). This topic has been discussed way before, though.
Weapon mounts are now also pricier, take up modification slots and, most importantly, are "Standard" modifications. Mini- and microdrones don't accept those, so emotitoys don't either. For mounting said taser onto a Ferret RPD-IX (which actually has Body 1) you'd have to use some version of Special Machinery, which is completely open to the players and the GM to discuss.

Besides that, this whole topic is amazing

Ah, yes, the [standard] tag I did forget, so I'll have a nibble of my own crow now. Fair's fair, after all.

Your concept screams "Suprathyroid gland" to me ...

I suppose, I'm just not fond of making his very augmented. Thought of going muscle replacement 2 for ST 8/AG 6, that'd make him a proper threat without looking super rebuilt (though his essence is down to 3.1 with Musle Dens 3 as well).

Tank:
Additional Small arms turrets on each corner of the tank with full turret maneuverability (about 16 mod slots)
X1 Multilaunch rack for minidrones (Spotters, ECM etc).
X1 Multilaunch rack for 10 Ares Heimdall missiles

Add anti-Theft (electric hull) against infantry

Muscle Replacement is incompatible with Muscle Augmentation or Muscle Toner, or did you mean Bone Density?

Sorry if I worded it confusingly, but I can't find myself saying I gave him Muscle Augmentation or Toner anywhere. His current augs (still a work in progress of c) are Bone Densit yAugmentation 3 (the bio that adds to DV rolls and causes P damage for unarmed) and Muscle Replacement 2 (the cyber that adds to Agility and Strength).

Check SR4A, you know, the definitive source for all rules. IIRC, it notes that as ROUNDED DOWN. Whoemever proofed Arsenal just did not do their job very well.

And please note what I said. IF the the Vehicle COMES STANDARD with the Mount, you are fine (It was designed that way, so it can abrogate the requirements). YOU CANNOT ADD the Modification if the Drone/Vehicle has less than a 3 body. And note that all weapons mounts are add-ons, if the vehicle does not come standard with them. And since PC's do not have the requisite Skills/Facilities/Time to prototype and produce truly unique drones/vehicles, they are stuck with the modification rules.

Oh wait...



Note that the SR4A book is the most recent, and as such has the correct ruling. So, who needs that Salt with his Crow? Definitely not me. You really should do your research before throwing stones.

In SR4A, how many mod slots does it take to get a weapon mount? Do they have chameleon coating? If you can only answer those questions with a "No," then Arsenal supersedes SR4A when it comes to using the modification system given in it, just like the Armor Modification system in Arsenal supersedes armor modifications in SR4A, which still allows you to get R6 Chem, Nonconduct, Fire, Insulation, and Thermal Damping all on an Armor Vest (page 326-327).

Don't confuse a copy-paste job with errata.