Ah, i overlooked the Biocompatibility there . .

I figured you had.

Why? He is not an object, he is still a living person, who paid Essence to be that tough. That is all...

Hmm, Cyborgs(Jar-Heads) gain a +2 resistance to magic, but do they gain the Object Resistance too? O.o

Depends on who's GMing, and how big of a dick the player-cyborg normally is.

Yeah, technically Cyborgs use vehicle combat rules, not personal combat rules. But a lot of GMs just treat them as regular foot combatants. Well, regular foot combatants with scary dice pools and immunity to stun.



-k

Amusing anecdote: before Cyber-Zombies saw official publication, the group I gamed with included a couple guys who wrote for FASA. And yes, one of them was part of creating Cyber-Zombies. He ran a game for us, and slipped in an early version of one. I remember being quite panicked aftr unloading a full ripple-salvo of maybe half a dozen 12.7cm unguided rockets into it, at point blank, and barely staggering it. That was the team's ONLY vehicle-grade weapon. ;D You can imagine our (especially my) terror when it got back up from the knee it had fallen to, turned toward my bike, and started advancing on me.

Well, the Jarhead is the brain in the jar. So no, a brain does not get OR. Beeing unnatural is covered by those two dice.
The Drone it is in, of course gets OR. Actually I would imagine it is quite a special occasion, if you are able to target the brain directly.

Except, by the books, you can't target the brain. At all. No line of sight.

You can target the body, but that's a vehicle.

Which means, yes, that cyborgs are completely immune to many mana-based spells. But they don't get resistance tests against many others that CAN affect them, they just get OR.

Better get the Redundant Process Manufacturing option. At the levels that a combat cyborg is likely to be operating at, they may NEED that extra +2 to their OR. Any opposition they'd be fielded against is likely going to also have large dice pools




-k

He did say 'quite a special occasion'. Redundant definitely seems like a cyborg must-have.

The thing I noticed about them is the brain, with no real damage track of its own, still is mentioned as taking the biofeedback damage from all damage done to the vehicle, which is why the brain-in-jar is mentioned to have R10 Damage Compensators. Input?

Bad rules (shock!). I think it'd be nice if they *did* have a damage track, and you could stun a cyborg by hammering their 'body'. Presumably, that was also somehow intended, given details like that. After all, whatever else a jarhead is, it's theoretically an actual metahuman… with tons of augmentation. It should act more or less like any other rigger.

Interestingly, the cyborg enhancements say "whatever the Essence of the cyborg, this operation leaves them with 0.1 Essence," or something to that effect. So, when building one, load up on useful brain-based bio/cyber (cerebral boosters, sleep regulator, mnemonic enhancer, attention coprocessor, math SPU, encephalon, reception enhancer, and a lot of the genetweaks) then get the cyborg process done.

If it were an actual option, sure… except then they might have written actual PC rules for it.

It's just a logical extension of the rules. You had a lot of headware and then got cyborg'd. Cyborg drops your Essence to 0.1. If you go Cyborg then everything else, you become a Cyborg-zombie.

No, it is not. It assumes that "brainware" does not need to be removed. It assumes that it does not matter how many "essence" the brain had.
This is actually NOWHERE the case.
If two persons undergo the same history, the one with IMPLANTS has always the lower essence. No exception to that.
There is NO WAY in the rules to undo the essence costs of implants, while still getting the benefits.

You should look up what "logical" does mean.

It doesn't matter, because it's not a real option; you can't be a cyber-zombie, either.

Excuse me for thinking that when all you have left is a brain then that means you can still augment said brain.


This is primarily an option for Prime Runners. I noted it using the rules presented, not necessarily arguing that players could use them.

Hehe, I felt it was implied. To me, a Prime Runner (or any NPC) by definition needs no shady rules-don't-say-I-can't finagling. If they need to be stronger or otherwise tweaked, you can just say it's so (obviously, within reason). The only people who need rules 'justification' for *this* kind of thing are players.

I personally avoid the use of the word "logic", as "game logic" does not always match "real life logic".

As Neraph pointed out, by the books the Cyborg process doesn't actually care what your Essence is beforehand. It clearly and specifically states that the Essence is set to 0.1 when the process is finished.

Now, we don't know if the author did, or did not, consider the possibility of prior brain enhancement.

All we have to go on is what the text says. The text says the counter is set to 0.1, that's plain and black and white.

I can see arguments both for and against it. On the one hand, if prior implants are supposed to be allowed, it's really something that should be spelled out specifically. On the other hand, Cyborging uses a new rule set for Essence cost that appears nowhere else in the rules - why make a custom rule if it wasn't intended to be used exactly as written?

But all this is extrapolation, speculation.

You might argue that "the one with IMPLANTS [should] have always the lower essence", but at that point you're houseruling. It's not an unreasonable houserule, I personally would change the "set Essence to 0.1" to "Cyborging costs 5.9 Essence, with Delta grade already figured in".

But the book doesn't actually say that.



-k

Dr. Victor Fries
Alias "Mr. Freeze"

Human
Mundane



"This is how I'll always remember you - surrounded by winter, forever young, forever beautiful. Rest well, my love. The monster who took you from me will soon learn that revenge is a dish.. best served cold."

B: 3
A: 3
R: 3
S: 3
C: 3
I: 3
L: 7
W: 3
Edge: 3

Bilingual (German / English) [5 BP]
College Education [5 BP]
Exceptional Attribute (Logic) [10 BP]
Restricted Gear x2 [10 BP]
Surge II [10 BP]
- Metagenetic Improvement (Logic) [20 BP]
- Impaired Attribute (Body) [-5 BP]
- Striking Skin Pigmentation (Frozen Pallor) [-5 BP]
* Distinctive Style [N/A]

Allergy (Common, Severe) (Super-Arctic Temperatures) [-20 BP]
Dependent (Demanding) (Nora Fries, Wife) [-15 BP]

Biotech - 3
Cracking - 3
Electronics - 3
Mechanic - 3
Influence 3
Exotic Ranged Weapon (Laser Weapons) - 3
Perception 3

Spacesuit (Cryo-suit)
Goggles
Ares Redline (Freeze Gun)
- Power Clip x3 / Power Satchel x1

30 Unspent Knowledge Skill Points
4,400 Unspent Nuyen
5 Unspent BP

Finally got him into a shape I'm pleased with. He'd be hard to play as, but properly managed I think he'd be a blast to roleplay. And besides, Shadowrunners are pretty comparable to Batman Villains to begin with, so it seems a perfect fit.

The spacesuit makes an excellent cryosuit, being environmentally and chemically sealed, including a biomonitor, commlink, and internal environmental controls, and even sporting some reasonable armor. The requirement for periodic maintenance also works well with Freeze's condition, requiring him to maintain his equipment regularly and protect his suit from undue damage. The Redline isn't my first choice for his freeze gun, but it's the best fit thematically, being a pistol sized energy weapon that has a pseudo elemental damage effect which loses power with distance.

The trickiest thing to replicate was his dependency on the cold and his inability to survive at room temperature. I eventually settled on his Super-Arctic Temperature Allergy because it was the most flexible and straightforward way to represent his unique condition. Tie in the Striking Skin Pigmentation and the Impaired Body (representing the damage his body has suffered because of the accident), and you've got his physical attributes pretty squared away.

The rest was composed mostly of pretty easy thematic choices. Given his origins, and his being a brilliant scientist and a verifiable genius, Bilingual and College Education were must-have choices. The two counts of Restricted Gear represent his ability to procure the parts for, and create and maintain, his life support systems and personal gear. And of course, Dependent (Demanding) represents the time, effort, and resources he puts into maintaining his wife's cryostasis chamber and coping with his own inner turmoil over her condition.

I didn't assign his knowledge skill points, but he has more than enough to cover pretty much whatever skill you could come up with for a genius scientist, particularly academic ones as they receive a bonus from his College Education. And with his remaining nuyen and buildpoints, any minor gear you might care to supply him with is easily attained - off the top of my head Vision Enhancements for his goggles and a smartgun system would help him be a bit less dead weight in a nasty firefight. Of course, he's clearly not the sort of character to be getting into such a fight in the first place, so best to rely instead on his smarts, but no harm in being prepared.

~Umidori

Because it much easyier. The rules spell out which kind of augmentations the brain has and what his essence score is. So there are no more questions.

Let me just post this here. NO BRAINWARE is kept, unless the GM deems it so. So it really is a moot point, per RAW.



Really is no need to houserule, either.

Oh, snap. TJ with the perfect quote that we were way too lazy to look for.

I think the brain is treated as a hotsim rigger.

Basically it CAN take biofeedback stun damage from Vehicle Physical Track Bleedover - though its rare because its reduced by armor and then reduced by biofeedback filter again.
Damage compensators DO work when the vehicle parts gets shot up, too.
You still have a will attribute, and a stun track.


Oddly there is a hilariously bad loophole with the cyborgification rules. It just automatically sets your essence to 0.1 - it doesn't count as augmentation, its not Essence Drain, its just Blam! you're at 0.1 and permanently burned out.
What this means is that clever cyborgs candidates can go into the procedure with an essence hole, and keep it once they're in the jar if they want more augs.
In fact, the procedure actually removes all your other ware, CREATING that essence hole as part of the procedure - and it doesn't say it goes away after that procedure either.
To be fair, the list of ware that IS compatable with a cyborg is fairly small - 12 Capacity doesn't go a long way when most of the stuff you want are things like Reception Enhancers, Math SPU's, Trauma Dampers and other sense-makey brain augmentations.

If you're minmaxing for odd things, then Spell Knack and Recharge together make for a hilarious combination. That freeze gun had better never run out of ammo!
I mean there's better ways to do it, but that's the cheap-and-funny way without being a big expensive character change like being a mystic adept.



Consider the implications of RC110: Metagenetic qualities, under Other Qualities. IE, you can take biocompatability as a Surge quality. It may just save you 5 points that can be spent on other qualities.

I can't find reference to a "Recharge" spell, power, or anything... well... anywhere.

Checked the obvious places, SR4A, Street Magic, Runner's Companion, even Digital Grimoire. Then I went for the odd stuff like Augmentation for some sort of 'ware confusion, Running Wild for possible critter power confusion, Unwired for possible technomancy confusion. All turned up zilch.

So it's either some bizarre obscure book I don't have, or you've confused some things.

~Umidori

hahahahahhahaah, oh that's grand.

That's the nicest I've ever been called a liar online.

Umidori, Its in The Forbidden Book. The reference you so desperately seek is on War! 178.

If I made you look through SEVEN BOOKS for this damn thing, then, well, I actually kind of feel bad for that.

In fact I'm just going to save you the trouble. Its basically the one good spell in the book that isn't magic laser pointer, slow, or magic grenade.



Use on Peak Discharge packs and Power Clips for fun and profit.

Also Emp cryo grenades may be a fun use of this spell, along with other battery powered dischargables.

Though now that I think about the levels of Object Resistance involved, spell knack(force2) probably won't cut it, so you probably want to go mystic adept.

If you're statting up a hollywood/comic villian, they should probably be an adept anyway, since its basically action hero mode.

Ahh. Ahhhhhh. Yes. That book. We do not speak of it.

That said, however, I love how 1) the spell is pretty much entirely designed for the express purpose of recharging energy weapon ammo packs, 2) I love how it never needs to be cast above Force 4 (or rarely 5) because it works against Object Resistance and you only need 4 hits max, and 3) it is so vaguely written that it could, arguably, be used to "fully charge" just about any device, no matter if it's a 10 power point weapon clip, a 100 power point backpack, or an even much larger batteries or static power sources, such as, say, an electric car or a specially designed immobile point defense laser system, or maybe even an orbital mass driver. Reminds me of how Ignite, as written, can technically allow you to light an entire mountain, or even the moon, on fire because it has no prestated limits other than affecting an "object".

~Umidori

Yeah pretty much.

Its also pretty fantastic for keeping drones operational if your gm is enforcing Operational Time.

When that book first came out, one of the first line of questions around here was.
"Hey, the earth is an astral body, right?"
and
"So, can you use ritual magic to cast slow on the whole planet? I mean, you can't see the whole thing at once, but with ritual magic you don't need to."

@Umidori
It is a spell out of "War!" what did you espect...

Yeah, shadowrun has a bad happit when it comes to spell descriptions...

Mystic Adept / Hacker
Artificier Mentor Spirit (Ooh, Shiny!)
Changeling [Electrosense, Extravagant Eyes (Blue Glow)]
Obvious Cybernetic Arm
Welding laser
Commlink

Spells:
Fix
Recharge
Pulse

Adept Powers
Multi-Tasking
Quick Draw
Nimble Fingers
Improved Sense - Electromagnetic Field Vision [Character sees magnetic fields from machines, electronics and living beings]
Improved Reflexes 1

EDIT: Switched to a built in palm mounted welding laser (Ironman'esque lens in palm) Cheaper, less availability and also not as hidden as anone taking a close look on his hand might have issues with him bringing a laser weapon.

Stats the same as a laser pistol so why not.

I call him...LENSMAN =P

Eh, GM allowing cultured bioware is all I need. Thanks for the clarification edgewise.

All neural bioware is cultured by default, I thought.

First, get a ritual sample...

Isn't Slow an area spell anyway?

1) What exactly are you trying to build? I feel a reference, but I can't see it.

2) Quick Draw is useless, as your laser pistol is in a cyberamr slide. Also, it can be argued that you can quick draw the laser pistol, as it is a pistol (but by RAW you couldn't, as it is not in the Pistols skill).

Although I do like the thematics.

1: Starhawk?

2: Quick draw isn't useless - it actually reduces the quickdraw threshold by 1, and if you combine it with a quickdraw holster, you get a get a threshold of 1 for the test, which can be good if you're quickdrawing constantly - archery comes to mind.
Its just not worth half a point - or at all in this case.
The advantage of a Cyber-arm slide is that its cyberware - it has a node. So you can have it ready your weapon for you automatically, if, say, your tacnet detects shooting.

Kinda makes me think of Cyborg from Teen Titans

I feel like any arm-slide in SR4 is a node (… everything is a node).

No idea, i was just brainstorming a theme of SOME kind.

Well, I realized I just made LENSMAN but with the laser lens in his palm

It could also work for Megaman...

~Umidori

What about a dodge-bunny? What do you need besides reaction + enhancers and adept powers like combat sense? Is it viable to use active dodging to close distance for close combat?

You'd need to give up a pass and invest heavily in skills/powers, and they'd just need to click from narrow burst to wide to negate your effort.

Yeah, I don't think it helps you close distance very well. You have to give up actions to use it, so you can't move...and it's still not very effective. Overspecializing in active dodging is just a good way to make sure you go down last after your group loses a fight.

You can get a reliable 19 to your defense pool (but limit your options for other things a lot and it's not a very efficient build)-

Pixie (don't most min-maxed builds start here?)

Max Reaction 9 (11) (8 maxed, 1 metagenic, 2 synaptic booster)
Magic to 6 (-1 for essense loss)

Qualities
Mystic Adept (Adept 4, Magician 1)
Metagenic Improvement (Reaction)

Powers (1.5 points remaining)
Combat Sense 5
It's unclear to me if - Improved Physical Attribute (Reaction) counts as "initiative enhancement" or if it can be stacked for a further improvement of reaction.

Skills
Spellcasting 4 (Detection specialization)
Dodge 4 (Ranged specialization)

'Ware
Synaptic Booster 2

Sustaining Foci 3 (Detection)

Defense Pools
Passive 19 = 11 Reaction + 5 Combat Sense + 3 Combat Sense Spell (sustained) (It's unclear if you can actually stack the combat sense spell with the combat sense power)
Active Dodge Ranged 25
Active Dodge Melee 27

158 BP remaining

Imp Phys Attribute takes up your maximum possible unaugmented attribute by 1.

I.E. a Human with Imp Phys Attribute Reaction would have a max of 7 for his unaugmented Reaction stat

I'd use an elf adept, free up some points and powers. Throw in reaction enhancers. Even without the spell, you could get about 15 passive, right?