High-Power Ammunition compability Question Options

[Nemo]

According to the Description of the High-Power Ammunition in War! a stronger propellant is used. The Effect of the APDS Ammunition is made bei the projectil. Would it be liable by RAW to combine High-Power Ammunition with APDS Ammunition to get High-Power APDS Ammunition?

[Yerameyahu]

RAW, there are no rules for combining any ammo, AFAIK.

God, imagine the Avail, anyway: Hi-P are 20F, APDS is already 16F.

[Mäx]

Nope.
Witch makes High power chambering one of the biggest smug baits in the game.
As really all it does eat up mod slots and restrict you to ammo that isn't even that good, except for being cheap.

[Yerameyahu]

It's almost like it's for regular military who don't care about that, not shadowrunners at all… (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[almost normal]

It's almost like it's for regular military who don't care about that, not shadowrunners at all… (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Yeah. It's why I don't like Ex or its big brother much. 33% more power in exchange for using a point of edge every few times you're in combat.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

RAW, there are no rules for combining any ammo, AFAIK.

God, imagine the Avail, anyway: Hi-P are 20F, APDS is already 16F.

But that is one way to go about it. 36F, and 150 Nuyen/10 Shots.
Personally, I think HP Rounds are pretty damned good already, but others may have differing opinions.
A HighPowered Ruger Super Warhawk is 8p, -3... WooHoo... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tanegar]

A HighPowered Ruger Super Warhawk is 8p, -3... WooHoo... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sweet Cthulhu's naughty tentacles, that's a sniper rifle that fits in a holster.

[Yerameyahu]

But oh no, you can't load your hand cannon with S&S, or flechette, or capsule. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Cuz apparently you'd want to?

[_Pax._]

Really, this shoud be a gun-only modification, and NOT an ammunition type. It should simply double the price of ammunition used with that gun, and stack it's benefits with those of the ammunition.

Said benefits should probably be smaller to balance, it, but ... *shrug* ...

[UmaroVI]

It's more than high powered ammo really suffers in comparison to APF ammo, which has 1 less AP and 20% less range....but doesn't have that -2 to hit that HP gets. Heck, HP is barely better than APDS (+2/-1 with -2 to hit vs 0/-4 with no hit penalty), and you don't need to mod your gun to use APDS.

[Mäx]

A HighPowered Ruger Super Warhawk is 8p, -3... WooHoo... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

On the other hand just loading it with AP Fletchette rounds makes it 8P -2AP and goes against impact armor witch for most human targets is 1-3 points slower, making it same or better effective AP.
Also doesn't require modding the gun.

Really, this shoud be a gun-only modification, and NOT an ammunition type. It should simply double the price of ammunition used with that gun, and stack it's benefits with those of the ammunition.

Said benefits should probably be smaller to balance, it, but ... *shrug* ...

I agree, except i don't see any reason to douple the ammo cost, considering that light pistol and sniper rifle ammo costs the same too.
Just drop to the benefit to +1 damage and it's in around the same ballpark of benefit, depending on what ammo is loaded in the gun.

[_Pax._]

On the other hand just loading it with AP Fletchette rounds makes it 8P -2AP and goes against impact armor witch for most human targets is 1-3 points slower, making it same or better effective AP.
Also doesn't require modding the gun.

Flechette round are AP+5, not AP-2.

A Heavy Pistol is 5P, AP-1. Against someone wearing an Armor vest (6/4), the result is 5P versus 5 armor.

Mod it for High Power ammunition, and it becomes 7P, AP-2. Same target, nowit's 7P versus 4 armor.

Load it with standard Flechette instead, and it becomes 8P, AP+4 (versus Impact). Same target, and you're looking at 8P and ... 8 armor.

...

Wher High-Power REALLY fails, is against AP Flechette. That same gun becomes 7P, AP-1 ... and still goes up against Impact armor, so it's only facing 3 armor now! Sure, it's twice the price of already expensive HP rounds .... but APFL is the ammunition, IMO.

[Mäx]

Lots of rambling

Please reread my post very slowly and this time try not to miss anything.

[Medicineman]

Flechette round are AP+5, not AP-2.

Yes but AP Flechette (from War !) is DV +2 AP 0 (Ok AVail 18V and 16 ¥ per Shot)

with quit a different Dance
Medicineman

[Nemo]

Thank you for the answers.

Then it will be a houserule.

[Umidori]

For those who missed it, the -2 AP is from the Ruger Super Warhawk, not the AP Flechette ammo...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

~Umidori

[Neraph]

Yeah. It's why I don't like Ex or its big brother much. 33% more power in exchange for using a point of edge every few times you're in combat.

What dicepool do you have where you glitch that frequently? Also, does your mage not know how to summon a spirit with Guard?

[almost normal]

What dicepool do you have where you glitch that frequently? Also, does your mage not know how to summon a spirit with Guard?

You misunderstand, I was lamenting the infrequency of the glitch. Let's make some wild assumptions and say combat lasts 5 turns, you've got 3 passes. If you do nothing but shoot, that's 30 shots. I said "every few times', let's assume that's 4, so you're taking 120 shots, let's smooth that over to 100.

Yeah. 100 rolls of the combat dice pool seem like enough to glitch, wouldn't you say?

Lastly, if our mage wasted his spirit on using Guard, while I'll applaud his effort to self-balance, he's probably doing combat wrong anyway.

[Neraph]

You misunderstand, I was lamenting the infrequency of the glitch. Let's make some wild assumptions and say combat lasts 5 turns, you've got 3 passes. If you do nothing but shoot, that's 30 shots. I said "every few times', let's assume that's 4, so you're taking 120 shots, let's smooth that over to 100.

Yeah. 100 rolls of the combat dice pool seem like enough to glitch, wouldn't you say?

Lastly, if our mage wasted his spirit on using Guard, while I'll applaud his effort to self-balance, he's probably doing combat wrong anyway.

How does 30 shots turn into 120 shots because every fourth you may glitch? Isn't that supposed to be division, not multiplication? Why is your combat lasting 5 turns? The longest combat I've ever been in was 5 CT, and that was against a Prime Runner Team of ex-military SpecOps (one of just about all archetypes).

"Waste" a spirit on Guard? You know Guard protects you from all glitches, right? It's easily one of the better Powers for sheer usefulness; and additionally, you'd only be "wasting" one service, not a whole spirit. Hell, for 500 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) and one karma you can get a Long-Term Bound Force 1 Spirit to give Guard to the summoning mage for a year. Can't beat that.

[almost normal]

How does 30 shots turn into 120 shots because every fourth you may glitch? Isn't that supposed to be division, not multiplication? Why is your combat lasting 5 turns? The longest combat I've ever been in was 5 CT, and that was against a Prime Runner Team of ex-military SpecOps (one of just about all archetypes).

You're failing at reading comprehension, and it's aggravating to deal with. As I'm currently drinking iced coffee, and my girlfriend woke me up with a fresh pork roll and cheese bagel, I can handle it.

30 shots a turn turns into 120 shots, because I said every every few combat encounters, which I then expanded upon to say four combat encounters. I'm not sure in which universe of math you'd divide 30 by 4, but in this one, and conveniently in the SR universe as well, we multiply. Why is our combat lasting 5 turns? Hopefully because we've got a good GM who decided to make combat fun, interesting, and dynamic; alternatively, it's because my group and myself suck at combat, and the only one doing combat "right", is you.

[Yerameyahu]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Neraph, didn't you learn your lesson? Don't waste your time on this nonsense (… you have other nonsense, after all!).

[almost normal]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Neraph, didn't you learn your lesson? Don't waste your time on this nonsense (… you have other nonsense, after all!).

Obvious ass is obvious. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[thorya]

Obvious ass is obvious. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Deep Breath SnowRaven. Just say No to feeding the Troll...

Seriously. I figured

It's laughable. I laugh! HA! HAHAHA!

would have given it away, if not, the testicle-removing entry earlier. I was just having a bit of fun, I apologize if anyone's feelings got hurt.

Yep, admitted troll is obvious.

[almost normal]

You still sound butthurt.

[thorya]

You still sound butthurt.

Obvious Troll is obvious. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)