Other Cyber Punk Games?, because Shadowrun is an awesome setting hamstrung with terrible rules Options

[noonesshowmonkey]

I've been running SR games for over a decade now (not as long as some!), and I love the setting but find myself at war with my players nearly every game. The rules are unwieldy, easily abused, at times painfully abstract and at others far too granular for anyone's health...

I want to Shadowrun--or maybe just tell Cyberpunk stories--but I do not want to fight the very game that we are playing.

What other Cyber Punk game systems are out there and why do you like them?

[nezumi]

Firstly, I'd recommend checking out other versions of Shadowrun. SR4 plays very differently from the other versions. 2/3 are basically interchangeable. I did not like playing SR4 because the mechanics just didn't sit well for me. SR 2/3 worked a lot better, was more granular, and offered more enjoyable math (although there are a lot more rules to remember). SR1 is a lot more like Cyberpunk 2020, which I'll get to in a moment.

If you're willing to drop the magic aspect, Cyberpunk 2020 is basically the progenitor of it all. CP2020 is definitely a case of 'style over substance', though. The mechanics are ridiculously simplistic and easily broken, the gear is overpowering, and you need to consider basically all cyberpunk fiction as canon. I've tried to play CP2020 twice (once GMing, once playing). The first time a player got upset because no one should be wearing metal armor in public. The second time the GM couldn't explain how ID checks work. So my experience makes me categorize CP2020 as 'drink some beer, throw some dice, tell a story'. (SR1 also suffers some major mechanical problems, although less so than CP). In both cases, the focus is on flavor, not numbers.

Beyond that ... GURPS is probably the best for streamlined, straightforward rules. However, GURPS suffers from lack of well-defined setting. You could probably mix up a GURPS CP/Magic campaign pretty easily.

You could also modify d20 modern but ... really? Really?

Other cyberpunk games ... I'd check out Eclipse Phase. While it's really transhuman, it's trivial to give it a more gutterpunk feeling. Unfortunately, the mechanics, while much simpler than SR4, are open to abuse, so the GM has to sometimes say 'no, that's not reasonable, it works out this way, let's move on'.

Other than that ... there are probably some little Fallout games around you can try out. But there's not a lot more I'm aware of. SR and CP have really dominated the market.

[noonesshowmonkey]

I played and GMed SR3 and did not find it much better in the game-breaking department than SR4. Probably worse, if anything.

I guess I'll take a gander at GURPS again. God, it's been a while since I did that.

[Halinn]

In the generic system department, modifying FATE to cyberpunk should also be fairly trivial.

[Grinchy McScroog...]

...
Other than that ... there are probably some little Fallout games around you can try out.
...

Fallout PnP is actually pretty good. I really enjoyed it back when, but since it was the first RPG I really played, I didn't have anything to compare it too. I don't recall it being all that much (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) though.

[Rastus]

Well, if you ever wanted to play something close to Cyberpunk 2020 but for whatever reason can't play something that is so violently 80's(or so violently broken ruleswise), there is an alternative: Interface Zero. Now, this sadly isn't an actual ruleset of it's own but that's probably a good thing, as it comes in three different rulesets, Savage Worlds, True20, and either d20 Modern or Modern20(there is a difference). Only Savage Worlds versions seem to be selling anymore, probably because only 9 people in the world even know what True20 is.

The setting in the gamebook takes many classic cyberpunk tropes, updates them, adds some newer concepts, and then starts to go crazy. It's also not afraid of including some silly elements, the prime example for me being pizza delivery men who undergo two-week commando training courses in order to deliver food to the worst ghetto's(sounds familiar...). As far as the system is concerned, if you use the Savage Worlds version then aside from some writing hiccups and leftovers from the d20 versions it oughta work just fine. Despite the unusual rep Savage Worlds sometimes gets, it's runs like clockwork and almost never gets bogged down. It manages a decent balance between streamlined and granularity. As a bonus, there are a good deal of similiarites between IZ and SR. Hell, the psychics in IZ even suffer drain from using their powers to much. It'd take some effort, but you could probably make a wholesale conversion of SR to use the SW rules if you really wanted to.


Another game you could try looking at is a relatively new one called Technoir. Unlike Interface Zero, this actually has it's own unique ruleset, and it uses only d6's of different colors, so if you play Shadowrun you're probably overequipped to play Technoir. This game plays much different from classics like d20, Shadowrun, or GURPS. I'll admit that I don't have much of any experiance with this game, as I got it pretty recently, but it's intriguing to say the least. From what I can see, each character has 9 core stats, refered to as Verbs, that are rated 1 to 5 and determine the base amount of dice to throw. From there, the character or GM looks at various narrative traits known as Adjectives for character-related traits and Tags for gear-related traits. For each positive adjective/tag that apply to the current task being attempted, the character gets the option to add a Push die to the roll in hopes of boosting the effect. Negative adjectives instead add "Hurt Die", which can cancel out any rolls that match the Hurt die results.

I haven't completely mastered the system yet, but so far it looks very playable, chargen is a breeze, and it's not too difficult to convert it to work with SR. Likely because the creator went on record by saying that Shadowrun was one of his influences. He even made a suggestion on how to go about doing it. Even better, there is a magic sourcebook called Hexnoir that is slated for the not-to-distant future, just in case you'd rather not do most of the work yourself.

[nezumi]

I cannot believe I forgot technoir! My wife did art for them.

That is definitely a fun and fast system. It's the only system I've seen where the mechanics actually establish color directly. I have not, unfortunately, had a chance to play, but I really do want to.

[almost normal]

I second eclipse phase. Great game, amazing people. Gotta love the little guy who takes a stand against their corrupt superiors.

[Stahlseele]

CD Projekt Red will do a COMPUTER Version of the CYBERPUNK Game.

[Grinchy McScroog...]

I recently got a chance to try out Technoir and I really enjoyed it. It's definitely more of a storytelling-style RPG, but the approach it uses makes it really interesting, especially if you like to stretch your brain out. I also enjoyed getting back to the old noir-ish Cyberpunk, something I'm really missing in the current version of Shadowrun (can't wait for Shadowrun: 2050).

[Amazeroth]

First off, I have NO IDEA why I wrote so much. But I was half way through already, as I asked myself this question, so I just finished it. Also I just remembered now, that Frostzone is only available in german, I think. But anyways, here i go:

I had some fun with Frostzone a while ago. It is a really good system, with amazing artworks, some really cool ideas and a really dark end time setting. Oh and it is a 2d10 game created by NackterStahl. I already played their fantasy setting "Arcane Codex" and that's how I came to try Frostzone. The only reason why I am not playing it anymore, is that I have no group with enough time. Work, work, work and study, so we have to cut it out and focus on just one setting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Here a (really) short overview:
Big war, nanite swarms block the atmosphere, world is slowly freezing, WASTE-Virus brings chaos, everything goes down the drain. Many years later, out of the ashes come the survivos and they see that he world has changed drastically.
Here is a picture of the world of Frostzone: FROSTZONE MAP

Now the big corps run for world government and rule everything. The countries are mostly divided by what corp they belong to, with a few exceptions. You can see the different corps on the picture above.

The playable Races: are:
1. Alphas: Genetically enhanced super soldiers, created by the Alpha Konsortium. Imagine them as a lesser version of a Warhammer 40K Space Marine, without the armor. Huge, freaking strong and well trained, born to kill. Depending on which Genetic Upgrades you have, you get different abilities. But you are dependent on the IDUN drug. So if you want to bail and lead your own life, well, you will die without this drug. So you better have some good connections (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
2. Amphitrites: Genetically modified humans, perfectly adapted to life in the water. Most of them belong to the Okton corp. They have gills and stuff like that.
3. Cyborgs: Machines with a human brain, created by the Cycore corp. It is the only corp capable of creating Cyborgs. They only have some humans in diplomatic positions, just for the illusion that humans are an important part of the world. But in truth the whole show is run by the mother cortex, a huge machine city, similar to those in Matrix 3. There are serveral kinds of Cyborg you can play, some are really crazy. Little assassin cyborgs with the faces of children, stealthy, poisonous and quick. Big spider-like cyborgs who depend on biomass to survive, really disgusting freaks. Huge Juggernauts, with tank-like weapons, capable of mass destruction. A human-like cyborg in the shape of a woman, to infiltrate humans if necessary. Just a cyborg head with some tentacles and massive cognitiv abilities. A Terminator-like (T800) Cyborg.
There are many upgrades you can choose from to make your Cyborg more to your taste.
4. Humans
5. Mutants They look like humans, but they can transform into werewolf-like beasts. Massive strength and endurance, also very cool style (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
6. Nanoborgs They seperated themselves from the morther cortex a while ago and are now working as a special kind of soldier for the Cycore corp. You are an entity composed of thousans/millions of nanites. You can form yourself into a very human-like shape, so you can infiltrate everywhere. You also can scatter and play the swarm itself. You can send some of your swarm into machines to hack them. The possibilities are endless, as is your imagination (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
7. Necroids: After the WASTE-Virus hit humanity, some were able to control it. They are known as the Necroids and most of them belong to the Gothika corp.
You pretty much look like those Reavers from Blade 2, here two pictures:
How you kind of look like, if you're a Necroid in normal form
How, for example, a Feareater looks like in his Necroid form
Yes, you can do that shit with your mouth. Basically you are a vampire-like thing, really cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
There are also different gen strands you can pick from, depend on which mutation of the virus created you:
Deathmonger, Feareater, Serpenttongue, and Darkness. They all are pretty individual and have their own abilities, like feeding from the negative emotions of humans, transforming into a shadow-like wraith and so on.
8. Psirider: This is a generic template, if you want to be able to use psi abilities.
9. Reborn: The Reborn are basically a cloned army of the Churche of Clone corp. They all have the appearance of some kind of angel. Yes, you have wings and you can fly. You also can upgrade your wings later on, so they are out of fire or give you useful abilities like regeneration.
Every reborn is able to hear the "voice of the father", which gives them commands and binds them to the Church of clone, so they behave like the corp wants to. In truth this voice is a biokinetic chip inside his head. So there are some who got rid of this chip and now count as "The fallen", working against the corp.
10. Primals: Neanderthals born again. Really, I am not kidding. They were cloned before the war, to be used in Zoos. During the war they broke out and are now inhabitating some of the frozen zones of the earth. I liked the idea.

The classes are too many to write down here. They all are composed of at least 10 levels. The cool thing here: you can pick freely from those levels, there is no order you have to keep. Also you can pick freely from all classes, so there are billions of combinations. Many of them sure are very powerful, but that's just the way it is. I like the freedom, at least for a class-based game it is huge.

Then there is Psy. Basically like magic, to make it short. There are several kinds of psionics:
1. Biokinetic: Imagine Alex Mercer from the pc game "Prototype". That's who you are now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
2. Elektrokinetics: You control electro currents. You can shoot them, you can charge things, you can discharge them and make static fields and stuff like that.
3. Divination: You can divine the movement of others, you can percieve the astral, you can find hidden things, divine the future and stuff liek that.
4. Me: This is the psy power, which is only known to the primals. You can transform into a beast, make fetishes, curse people and stuff.
5. Telekinetics: Control actions of humans, make telekinetic blockades against kicks or bullets, MODIFY GRAVITY (I LOVE THAT), let things fly.
6. Telepath: Control thoughts, influence people, read their thoughts and emotions, alter their memory, alter their dreams. This shit is strictly illegal.
7. Teleportation: Hell yeah, my favourite. Rapidly blink from one place to another to avoid attacks, get creative with teleportation holes (if somebody shoots at you, just create on in front of you and the exit of the hole behind the enemy, so he shoots himself), or just teleport yourself.
8. Thermokinets: Burn or freeze stuff, hard. Create ice and fire. Control ice and fire. Make it warmer or colder. DESTROY STUFF.
9. WASTE-Psi: The virus gave us more than just death and the Necroids: With WASTE-Psi you can control the virus in yet another way. Infect or desinfect people, let things decay, control shadows (to hit people, to steal things, to bind people or whatever, be creative), transform yourself into a WASTE-beast or control WASTE-Beasts.

Also the whole system is based on style. You can use it like Edge in Shadowrun 4. If you do cool things, you get your style back. So you get rewarded for really cool actions and risky thins, I like the idea very much (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) This is also how you pay for special maneuvers from the classes or for your psi abilities.

[Speed Wraith]

If you do go check out GURPS again, be aware that they've actually got some great Cyber Punk related books. For example, Cthulhupunk, (I believe that was the title), is less magic/cyber and more horror/cyber. It makes for an interesting combo.

[mister__joshua]

Has anyone tried SLA Industries or Corporation? I've not played either but have read about both. Even got the book for Corporation cos it looked cool

[X-Kalibur]

The Dark Heresy ruleset can be adapted fairly easily to be a cyberpunk setting (or a Fallout setting *cough*). The rules for it are just really clean although the same can also be said for Eclipse Phase.

[MYST1C]

Even got the book for Corporation cos it looked cool

I had heard a lot of praise for Corporation so I got the book when I found for a nice price.
Actually reading it myself left me disappointed. Terrible artwork aside (some pieces are quite OK but suffer from clearly being color pictures printed in greyscale with not enough shade resolution) the setting is just "meh" to me. The characters are supposed to be officially sanctioned corporate agents, fighting, stealing and killing because, as they are agents, those are not criminal acts. Besides megacorporations-as-nations there's also some united world government trying to keep said corporations in check and a monolithic globe-spanning neo-religion …

I had the impression that the author must be a huge Syndicate fan because thats how the game presents itself. It's IMHO not cyberpunk but a dark future cybered super-hero/super-spy mashup.

[hobgoblin]

Heh, SLA is cyberpunk on a really bad brainbender.

As for Corporation, it is indeed very Syndicate complete with dry and dark humor. And if one do not feel like working for one of the big names there are some rules out that provide a way to play freelancers. Btw, some of the activity is very much illegal. But the mentioned world governments police force can't be bothered to get involved as long as the actions do not threaten non-corp people and property. But start a firefight on main street and they will drop a agent hunter squad into the mix. And that is before one consider going off world, where they have no say at all...

[Hasimir]

Hi (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think you may want to look into the Tactical Ops rpg system.
It is fast, cinematic, action oriented, gizmo-friendly and...
- GM less
- zero prep
- works perfectly with just 2 players

I think that the in-built guidelines to play in a Cyberpunk and Fantasy setting would be more than enough to re-create the Shadowrun feel.
But I see a proper Setting-in-a-Box coming up in the future.
(and the same goes for a proper SLA Industries SiaB)

You can find more info, some Actual Plays and the current BETA rules at the following adress: http://psychosys-rpg.blogspot.com