Improved Physical attribute Options

[Stingray]

..was trying to make an Adept, but can' t remember what is cost of Improved Physical Attribute
adept power...0,75 pp/lvl or 0,5 pp/lvl.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)
could some1 give me answer??...

[Thanee]

The rulebook? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

P.S. It's .75

[Stingray]

TY for quick answer!!

(loaned my books to friend , who PROMISED to bring them back...but didn't)..(yet..) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[VykosDarkSoul]

..was trying to make an Adept, but can' t remember what is cost of Improved Physical Attribute
adept power...0,75 pp/lvl or 0,5 pp/lvl.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)
could some1 give me answer??...

0.75 up to unaugmented max
1.5 after that

[Xenefungus]

What no one mentioned so far: Better don't take that power in the first place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Critias]

I'd avoid it, yeah.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'd avoid it, yeah.

Not THAT horrible. Some builds benefit from it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Glyph]

When they did the rules for adepts, they wanted to give them a slightly different niche than street samurais. So they made some things easier to get with augmentations, and other things easier to get with magic. But the side effect of this is that adepts who get augmentations for the stuff that is harder to improve with magic have a sizable advantage over "pure" adepts.

Attribute improvement and initiative improvement are the two things that are most costly to improve with magic. An adept getting two levels of muscle toner and two levels of muscle augmentation only loses one point of magic to, say, raise those two attributes from 5 to 7. Doing it with improved physical attribute would cost 0.75 x 2 to raise them to 6, then 1.5 x 2 to raise them to 7. That's 4.5 power points! And the adept using bioware can still get 0.2 Essence more in augmentations - maybe reflex recorders for two combat skills, the equivalent of another power point for a "pure" adept. A synaptic booster: 2 also costs only 1 point of Essence, and gives the equivalent of a power that costs 2.5 power points.


Still, if you are playing a pure adept for roleplaying reasons, as I have done myself, then barring muscle toner, the best bang for the buck is to get one level of improved physical attribute to raise Agility to the (unaugmented) maximum, and then get one level of attribute boost for it. It's not bad for one power point in total cost.

[Critias]

Not THAT horrible. Some builds benefit from it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

No, they really don't (compared to the bioware versions). Compare .75 or 1.5 per level to, at most .2 per level (not counting biocompatability, grades of augmentation, or Type O).

That's...I mean, that's a big friggin' difference, TJ. I'm all for fighting the good fight, defending the system, loving the game warts and all, and rooting for unaugmented adepts -- y'all know me -- but there's times to just accept that it is what it is. 2.25 Power Points to get Agility from 5 to 7, versus .4 Essence to get Agility from 5 to 7? That's one of those times. There's no shame in succumbing to the overwhelming power of basic mathematics, and sometimes losing a point of Magic to dip into the well.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

No, they really don't (compared to the bioware versions). Compare .75 or 1.5 per level to, at most .2 per level (not counting biocompatability, grades of augmentation, or Type O).

That's...I mean, that's a big friggin' difference, TJ. I'm all for fighting the good fight, defending the system, loving the game warts and all, and rooting for unaugmented adepts -- y'all know me -- but there's times to just accept that it is what it is. 2.25 Power Points to get Agility from 5 to 7, versus .4 Essence to get Agility from 5 to 7? That's one of those times. There's no shame in succumbing to the overwhelming power of basic mathematics, and sometimes losing a point of Magic to dip into the well.

Some builds are detrimentally affected by Augmentations. In those cases the Improved Physical Attrubute is a better choice. Yes, You can get Augmentations for far cheaper, I agree. Not all builds want Augmentations, though. I prefer an Augmented Adept most of the time, but by no means do I prefer it always. It is always concept driven for me. Besides, when using a Way, they become even more attractive for a pure Adept. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I rarely build to mathematical perfection. I prefer the Concept over mathematical optimization.

[Halinn]

Improved Physical Attribute can also be used to raise body, which is not that easy to raise through 'ware.

[Stingray]

Improved Physical Attribute can also be used to raise body, which is not that easy to raise through 'ware.

exactly what i did.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neraph]

Some builds are detrimentally affected by Augmentations.

Then choose a different 15 points of negative Qualities than Sensitive System.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Then choose a different 15 points of negative Qualities than Sensitive System.

Who said anything about that particular Negative Quality?
There are just some concepts that would refuse Augmentations, regardless of how they impacted their systems. In those cases, Improved Physical Attribute is pretty darn nice. Especially when combined with a Way Bonus and Geas. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neraph]

I need to start using smileys in my posts like Yerameyahu...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I need to start using smileys in my posts like Yerameyahu...

Heh... Indeed, Somtimes it is hard to tell if you are being sarcastic or not... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Glyph]

Sensitive System doesn't really affect adepts that much anyways, since they tend to go for bioware, which is not affected by Sensitive System.

[Neraph]

Sensitive System doesn't really affect adepts that much anyways, since they tend to go for bioware, which is not affected by Sensitive System.

....

Drat.

[Makki]

we houseruled the cost to a straight 0.5

[Krishach]

In this, it is more cost efficient to get bioware upgrades and adept powers together if you do some careful planning. Bioware itself is cost prohibitive, and trying to get alpha or better can become extremely so. Some adept powers have no bioware equivalent, and some bioware has no adept equivalent.

I personally made a character that split the line (a ghoul brawler) and found it surprisingly limiting and frustrating despite careful planning: you find yourself sitting on money piles and karma piles like an impatient RTS player, waiting for that last drop.

Plan the order, cost, karma, overlap, and everything else out beforehand to save yourself some buyers remorse.


And then there is the aforementioned Boost power, which is the equalizer for short term. Boost requires a Magic + Boost test, and bringing your magic up short with bioware can really hose you on it.



One particular aspect I've noticed about biowared adepts though. You HAVE to keep raising your magic attribute in a constant karmic race to prevent total power loss by reducing your magic less than one.
Adepts have to raise magic (eventually) to continue their powers anyway though.
So here is the clinch: initiation levels can buy you adept power points. And a "way" can net you a decent discount. On bioware, too (burnout way)
biowared-adepts can also get these power points, allowing them to keep what they have as they lose essence to implants.
The line is a one I'd only push if you have a casual GM. Ours; you could possibly lose essence for other reasons: being fed on by Essence Drain, huge physical damage, etc.

[Ruby]

I picked Improved Physical Attribute in conjunction with the Warriors Way for my gun adept. She has improved agility which works for her focus on firearms.

[KarmaInferno]

Any of the Sapient Critter adepts are not gonna really have implant augmentations as an option in most cases.





-k

[Krishach]

why is that? There are markups, sure, but the comparability costs are there.

[Glyph]

Deltaware bioware is very expensive, and not available at char-gen. The chrome critters rule lets you get lower-grade implants, even if they are treated as second-hand 'ware for Essence costs, but it is an optional rule, so not every table will use it.

[Krishach]

True. Char-gen though I think that kind of limiting factor becomes necessary to prevent stat-raping. Without it, you could easily get a vampire/pixie with an agility of 12 on a starting character, or a Dzoo-Noo-Qua with a STR 15, or a Pixie with a reaction 11 (12 max). Agility and Reaction especially are core stats that max at 9/10 for everyone else. I just wish it applied to all infected too, not just Regenerating ones, for the same reasons.