Sustained Spells, and knockout Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[VykosDarkSoul]

So, a quick question for all you mage fetishist (pun intended).

two situations

1) Mage is sustaining a spell, he is knocked unconscious
a) does the spell go down?

2) Mage has placed the same spell on a sustaining focus, he is knocked unconscious
a) does the spell go down?


My thoughts would be yes for sure in #1

I am fuzzy and unsure of #2, my gut says that yes, the spell would go down, because he is no longer in "control" of the spell.

Whatcha got for me dumpshockers!


p.s. Thanks in advance!

[Neraph]

1) Yes. Since the mage can no longer concentrate on the spell, the effect ends (SR4A, page 184, Step 7: Ongoing Effects).

2) No. Since the Sustaining Focus is now in control of the spell, the focus itself will need to be interrupted for the spell effect to end (SR4A, page 199, Sustaining Foci [or it be Counterspelled (SR4A, page 185, Dispelling Sustained Spells)]).

[darthmord]

I would say yes for item number 1. No for item number 2. The reason for the no on #2 is the focus is sustaining the spell, not the caster. As such, it is keeping the mana flow active.

[VykosDarkSoul]

So, essentialy speaking, a mage could hang an Increased Reflexes spell on a sustaining focus, and never have to worry about it again (unless another mage, or a background count etc, disrupts it)

[Neraph]

Yes.

[_Pax._]

That's exactly the PURPOSE of a Sustaining Focus.

[Bearclaw]

On a semi-related note, where does it say you can't stack increase relexes with other reflex boosts?

[Halinn]

It doesn't. But the other non-drug sources that increase IPs explicitly don't stack with anything else.

[Bearclaw]

Yea, I guess it does. Thanks.

[Dakka Dakka]

It doesn't.

Yes, it does:

A character can only be affected by a single Increase Reflexes spell at a time; the maximum IPs any character can have is 4.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yes, it does:

Read the question again Dakka Dakka...
It was not a question about stacking spells, it was about stacking spells with technology. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dakka Dakka]

Woops.

[Umidori]

I've always understood it as being that temporary IP boosts stack with permanent ones up to the max, and spells are temporary boosts. So a Sammy with a 2nd IP from starter level 'ware can take drugs to get a 3rd IP no problem, and likewise can then have a mage sustain a spell on him to give him a 4th.

~Umi

[Falconer]

Umi... actually the rules are clear on whether drugs and other stuff stacks or not. Most of them include text saying not cumulative with any other IP booster or not cumulative with certain types...

Adept - improved ref... cannot be combined with technological or other magical increases to initiative (drugs aren't excluded by this)
Mage - Improved Ref... doesn't have a non-stacking clause... but doesn't really need one... every other IP booster except drugs says it doesn't stack with it! (again 4 successes is pretty trivial to get; so why are you playing with drugs if you have this spell?!)
Bioware - Synaptic Booster: Cannot be combined with any other form of initiative... (so incompatible with drugs)
Cyber - Wired Ref: Cannot be combined with any other form of initiative enhancement EXCEPT reaction enhancers. (incompatible with drugs)
Cyber - MoveByWire: duplicates Wired Reflexes restrictions... (incompatible with drugs)

As far as a spell goes... it doesn't need to stack at all. All you need to do is cast it at the right force and overwrite. Really force 4 or 5... with 4 successes gets you 4 passes on the street sam. There is no reason to allow them to stack especially because it's trivial to get enough successes to get all 4. In fact, I'd say it shouldn't stack.

Drugs a lot of people allow to stack because there's a severe downside which comes along with their (ab)use. But strictly speaking drugs only stack by RAW with the magical initiative enhancements.

Since they don't stack, you simply take the best bonus from the various gear...

[Aerospider]

So, essentialy speaking, a mage could hang an Increased Reflexes spell on a sustaining focus, and never have to worry about it again (unless another mage, or a background count etc, disrupts it)

AFB so not certain, but doesn't one need to be conscious to keep a focus active? Thinking about it, this sounds like just the kind of thing that RAW would skip over.

[Dakka Dakka]

AFB so not certain, but doesn't one need to be conscious to keep a focus active? Thinking about it, this sounds like just the kind of thing that RAW would skip over.

It takes a Simple Action to activate a Focus and a Free one to deactivate it. Additionally a Focus is automatically deactivated, if it is removed from the character. An unconscious character cannot take a Free Action, so unless the Focus is removed, it remains active.

[Aerospider]

It takes a Simple Action to activate a Focus and a Free one to deactivate it. Additionally a Focus is automatically deactivated, if it is removed from the character. An unconscious character cannot take a Free Action, so unless the Focus is removed, it remains active.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I have trouble with the idea that physical contact is required but consciousness isn't, though I can see a richer game in allowing sleeping magicians to maintain spells.

[Dakka Dakka]

If consciousness were required, how would you justify the ability to use the Focus while astrally projecting? At least the physical body is unconscious.

[Aerospider]

If consciousness were required, how would you justify the ability to use the Focus while astrally projecting? At least the physical body is unconscious.

It's not unreasonable to include foci in the distinction between astral projection and mundane causes of unconsciousness. Especially since you are using the foci somewhere other than its physical location, so there is already a big distinction.

[Falconer]

It takes a Simple Action to activate a Focus and a Free one to deactivate it. Additionally a Focus is automatically deactivated, if it is removed from the character. An unconscious character cannot take a Free Action, so unless the Focus is removed, it remains active.

Actually it takes a complex action to activate a sustaining focus... they're special in that regard.

They remain deactivated until you specifically use a complex action to cast a spell through it... this activates the focus.

Still doesn't change the free action to deactivate part...

[Neraph]

It takes a Simple Action to activate a Focus and a Free one to deactivate it. Additionally a Focus is automatically deactivated, if it is removed from the character. An unconscious character cannot take a Free Action, so unless the Focus is removed, it remains active.

Think of it like Dresden Files: you have to take the effort to connect the magical circuit which will stay active until something breaks it (removed from person, specifically targeted, Ward interaction, ect) or you take the effort to break the circuit.

[Krishach]

On a side note, Quickening/Anchoring would also work until dispelled.

On the IP side topic going, I was under the impression that the general shadowrun rule was, unless an exception was printed (as with the matrix initiative boost that stack to 5) that you did not stack such bonuses, only the highest applies.

[Neraph]

On the IP side topic going, I was under the impression that the general shadowrun rule was, unless an exception was printed (as with the matrix initiative boost that stack to 5) that you did not stack such bonuses, only the highest applies.

As far as I know this is correct.

[Dakka Dakka]

There is no such general rule. Individual Initiative Enhancements state if they do not stack. There is no rule against taking three different drugs to get +3 IPs.

[StealthSigma]

So is it a good or a bad idea for a mage using invisibility to sustain it with a focus?