Magical Ammunition, Curious? Options

[Jeremiah Kraye]

Is there any way to pair a magical nature with ammunition? Imbue a spell into ammunition?

[Speed Wraith]

I think it depends on what you're intending to do. You can't make a focus out of ammo, but you could cast spells on it, say an illusion to cover up the true nature of the object. I think a little more context on what you're thinking about may be in order (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[CanRay]

Invisible Tracer Rounds?

[Jeremiah Kraye]

Round is shot down-range, magic inside of it takes effect. Ammunition that can affect the astral?

There are more possibilities but I'm just curious if rules for it exist or if anyone house-ruled or came up with ideas for it, past or present.

[BishopMcQ]

Anchored spell on the bullet?

[StealthSigma]

Invisible Tracer Rounds?

Don't make it an omnidirectional illusion spell so that you can see the bullet from a relatively narrow viewing angle behind it.

[Speed Wraith]

Round is shot down-range, magic inside of it takes effect. Ammunition that can affect the astral?

There are more possibilities but I'm just curious if rules for it exist or if anyone house-ruled or came up with ideas for it, past or present.

I don't personally know of anything which could create these affects, but hey, there are several 4e books I haven't read cover-to-cover yet. If it isn't covered, your best bet to is to work on researching a new spell to cover the effect you're looking for.

As for affecting the astral, you could probably find a way to use FAB for that purpose. They already make FAB grenades, and I personally can't imagine small arms that would be effective, but I could see something like a modified shotgun slug or a cannon round that could be useful.

[Jeremiah Kraye]

I was thinking something along the lines of a specifically modified hand-cannon, specially crafted vessel shells perhaps from high grade material combined with a mage to both prepare and cast the requisite spell into the shell. Would need to find a proper "trigger" catalyst for the spell to go off, perhaps the preparing spell would require a defined trigger.

Shells would be expensive and rare, but a cool concept. Although I'm not sure if you want to make it so the shell contains the spell and releasing it simply fires it down-range at the target (so the spell would be as if it had been cast but would still require aiming, etc), or would simply be tied to the round's payload and occur wherever the round struck.

There isn't an existing way to prepare a spell trap is there? Trigger a spell on triggering effect?

[Yerameyahu]

This has definitely been discussed before, because everybody wants this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Anchoring is really the only way, and it's basically prohibitively expensive.

[Jeremiah Kraye]

Well I think you need to define what is prohibitively expensive... I mean your basically giving mundanes the ability to fire off spells, that should be expensive.

I know that the idea has been broached and its applicability used for many things, I don't think magical items (standard DnD wands) should neccesarily be in the game available to anyone, but the idea of a one-shot ammo, grenade, or other tool might be interesting. Reminds me of casters from outlaw star.

[UmaroVI]

Have a Possession spirit possess bullets.

[Draco18s]

I was thinking something along the lines of a specifically modified hand-cannon, specially crafted vessel shells perhaps from high grade material combined with a mage to both prepare and cast the requisite spell into the shell. Would need to find a proper "trigger" catalyst for the spell to go off, perhaps the preparing spell would require a defined trigger.

Shells would be expensive and rare, but a cool concept. Although I'm not sure if you want to make it so the shell contains the spell and releasing it simply fires it down-range at the target (so the spell would be as if it had been cast but would still require aiming, etc), or would simply be tied to the round's payload and occur wherever the round struck.

There isn't an existing way to prepare a spell trap is there? Trigger a spell on triggering effect?

Soooo...you want a Caster Gun?

[Yerameyahu]

Prohibitive means 'it's not worth doing', that's all. It is indeed analogous to casters.

And I'm glad it's prohibitive: mundanes shouldn't have spells. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I agree, SR should not have 'magic items' at all, though Anchoring allows you to basically make 'magic grenades', 'magic traps', etc. that anyone can carry around.

UmaroVI, the effect of that will be discussed in a forthcoming sourcebook. ;D Seriously though, it's not at all clear what that would do. Possibly it means you have a dual-natured bullet that therefore does normal bullet damage to the target (plus Possession bonus damage? Who knows!). Or, it means basically nothing special happens, except maybe the bullet is undamaged by the impact (probably a bad thing, honestly). Either way, it's nearly as 'expensive' as Anchoring, because you're either using a mage's *one* spirit, or there's Binding involved.

[Jeremiah Kraye]

Not exactly, I just think it would be interesting to look at.

Think about it like any other form of single-use weapon, grenade, missiles, they are in general heavily costed.

Imagine a mechanism, either a seperate single load weapon or a modification to an existing weapon to allow it to accept this type of ammuition, build the catalyst trigger into the barrel, make a single round magically enchanted cost a fortune.

Remember the age old ideal for street sams, with enough money...

Even if a single shell or a single bullet cost 10000 nuyen, the ability to fire off a spell as a street sam imo would outweigh the cost in versatility. I can't believe that high level shadowrunners wouldn't try to carry 1-2 of these "surprises" with them.

[Draco18s]

Even if a single shell or a single bullet cost 10000 nuyen, the ability to fire off a spell as a street sam imo would outweigh the cost in versatility. I can't believe that high level shadowrunners wouldn't try to carry 1-2 of these "surprises" with them.

Just don't fire them all one after the other.

[Jeremiah Kraye]

Just don't fire them all one after the other.

Wow, a 9, two 4's and 13? Where did you get these Jim.

[Speed Wraith]

Have a Possession spirit possess bullets.

Hmm...spirit with the innate spell power?

[DamienKnight]

What about a bullet with living biofiber inside it, giving it an astral barrier rating 6. That would be relatively cheap, and would give your bullets presence on the astral plane, allowing them to hit astral objects.

You would need special clips to hold them that would keep the biofiber alive, but the whole thing shouldnt cost more than AV rounds.

[MADness]

Wow, a 4, two 9's and 13? Where did you get these Jim.

I was literally thinking about this just before I saw your post. Also, the Cavalier Sheriff from Gun Heaven 2 is perfect for the idea.

[UmaroVI]

UmaroVI, the effect of that will be discussed in a forthcoming sourcebook. ;D Seriously though, it's not at all clear what that would do. Possibly it means you have a dual-natured bullet that therefore does normal bullet damage to the target (plus Possession bonus damage? Who knows!). Or, it means basically nothing special happens, except maybe the bullet is undamaged by the impact (probably a bad thing, honestly). Either way, it's nearly as 'expensive' as Anchoring, because you're either using a mage's *one* spirit, or there's Binding involved.

It's an order of magnitude less expensive than Anchoring because it doesn't cost you karma every time you do it.

There's no particular need for special rules about possessed bullets. We have perfectly good rules (OK, we have rules) for possessed objects, and bullets are objects. It is definitely dual-natured because possessed objects are always dual-natured. It may or may not add damage/armor-piercing/anything else (since what rating get added is GMs discretion; I'd argue none of them should change). The bullet can't move on its own because bullets can't move on their own normally. The spirit has Initiative calculated based on its own stats (thus, Fx2/2), and has all of its powers.

So examples of the way you could use it would be to have a Man spirit with Innate Spell in the bullet, have it hold its action, shoot something, and then the spirit uses its held action to use a Touch range spell. You could do similar things with any Touch range power, like Engulf. And you don't need any funky rules to do it; all you have is a vessel that you have a creative way of moving around. You could also fire it at an astral form and have the spirit use its held action to attack the astral form as it goes by (using Astral Combat or some M power).

[Yerameyahu]

This was also suggested previously, and will also be answered in a forthcoming sourcebook. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) Seriously though, we don't have any official rulings on any of these astral/dual-natured/physics interaction questions. The FAQ makes some half-hearted attempts to talk about 'what if you hit a spirit with an active focus?' and '… what if that focus is a car?', but ultimately it just resorts to that mantra I've been quoting. Yuck.

I'm not saying it doesn't make *sense*, but hitting things with biofiber (or anything like that question) simply has no rules for it.

UmaroVI, I put 'expensive' in scare quotes because it's more like 'requires a mage to set up and babysit', etc. Expensive in time and opportunity costs, for example: you're using up that mage's one spirit, or X bound spirits, as I said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I agree, you could do the Innate Spell trick (I don't know why you'd bother, if you already have a spirit with Innate Spell). I'm not sure an immobile (inanimate?) object is capable of using Astral Combat on something it 'falls into' at all.

[almost normal]

Just use a ghostrock cannon.

[The Jopp]

Inhabitation Elemental
Elemental Aura
Arrowhead
Arrow

Put elemental in Arrowhead
Screw arrowhead unto arrow shaft
Use 1 service when you tell the elemental to activate aura just before you shoot him with your bow/crossbow.

Hand crossbow (damage 2) with F6 elemental aura.

When arrow is stuck in the enemy tell it to engulf.

[TheOOB]

Inhabitation Elemental
Elemental Aura
Arrowhead
Arrow

Put elemental in Arrowhead
Screw arrowhead unto arrow shaft
Use 1 service when you tell the elemental to activate aura just before you shoot him with your bow/crossbow.

Hand crossbow (damage 2) with F6 elemental aura.

When arrow is stuck in the enemy tell it to engulf.

I have to wonder how much the spirit will appreciate being shot at an enemy like that. I would think that's a quick way to get spirits to spend edge to resist summoning.

[CanRay]

Just use a ghostrock cannon.

Deadlands: Hell On Earth: Reloaded just went on sale, BTW.