Is there any way to pair a magical nature with ammunition? Imbue a spell into ammunition?

I think it depends on what you're intending to do. You can't make a focus out of ammo, but you could cast spells on it, say an illusion to cover up the true nature of the object. I think a little more context on what you're thinking about may be in order

Invisible Tracer Rounds?

Round is shot down-range, magic inside of it takes effect. Ammunition that can affect the astral?

There are more possibilities but I'm just curious if rules for it exist or if anyone house-ruled or came up with ideas for it, past or present.

Anchored spell on the bullet?

Don't make it an omnidirectional illusion spell so that you can see the bullet from a relatively narrow viewing angle behind it.

I don't personally know of anything which could create these affects, but hey, there are several 4e books I haven't read cover-to-cover yet. If it isn't covered, your best bet to is to work on researching a new spell to cover the effect you're looking for.

As for affecting the astral, you could probably find a way to use FAB for that purpose. They already make FAB grenades, and I personally can't imagine small arms that would be effective, but I could see something like a modified shotgun slug or a cannon round that could be useful.

I was thinking something along the lines of a specifically modified hand-cannon, specially crafted vessel shells perhaps from high grade material combined with a mage to both prepare and cast the requisite spell into the shell. Would need to find a proper "trigger" catalyst for the spell to go off, perhaps the preparing spell would require a defined trigger.

Shells would be expensive and rare, but a cool concept. Although I'm not sure if you want to make it so the shell contains the spell and releasing it simply fires it down-range at the target (so the spell would be as if it had been cast but would still require aiming, etc), or would simply be tied to the round's payload and occur wherever the round struck.

There isn't an existing way to prepare a spell trap is there? Trigger a spell on triggering effect?

This has definitely been discussed before, because everybody wants this. Anchoring is really the only way, and it's basically prohibitively expensive.

Well I think you need to define what is prohibitively expensive... I mean your basically giving mundanes the ability to fire off spells, that should be expensive.

I know that the idea has been broached and its applicability used for many things, I don't think magical items (standard DnD wands) should neccesarily be in the game available to anyone, but the idea of a one-shot ammo, grenade, or other tool might be interesting. Reminds me of casters from outlaw star.

Have a Possession spirit possess bullets.

Soooo...you want a Caster Gun?

Prohibitive means 'it's not worth doing', that's all. It is indeed analogous to casters.

And I'm glad it's prohibitive: mundanes shouldn't have spells. I agree, SR should not have 'magic items' at all, though Anchoring allows you to basically make 'magic grenades', 'magic traps', etc. that anyone can carry around.

UmaroVI, the effect of that will be discussed in a forthcoming sourcebook. ;D Seriously though, it's not at all clear what that would do. Possibly it means you have a dual-natured bullet that therefore does normal bullet damage to the target (plus Possession bonus damage? Who knows!). Or, it means basically nothing special happens, except maybe the bullet is undamaged by the impact (probably a bad thing, honestly). Either way, it's nearly as 'expensive' as Anchoring, because you're either using a mage's *one* spirit, or there's Binding involved.

Not exactly, I just think it would be interesting to look at.

Think about it like any other form of single-use weapon, grenade, missiles, they are in general heavily costed.

Imagine a mechanism, either a seperate single load weapon or a modification to an existing weapon to allow it to accept this type of ammuition, build the catalyst trigger into the barrel, make a single round magically enchanted cost a fortune.

Remember the age old ideal for street sams, with enough money...

Even if a single shell or a single bullet cost 10000 nuyen, the ability to fire off a spell as a street sam imo would outweigh the cost in versatility. I can't believe that high level shadowrunners wouldn't try to carry 1-2 of these "surprises" with them.

Just don't fire them all one after the other.

Wow, a 9, two 4's and 13? Where did you get these Jim.

Hmm...spirit with the innate spell power?

What about a bullet with living biofiber inside it, giving it an astral barrier rating 6. That would be relatively cheap, and would give your bullets presence on the astral plane, allowing them to hit astral objects.

You would need special clips to hold them that would keep the biofiber alive, but the whole thing shouldnt cost more than AV rounds.

I was literally thinking about this just before I saw your post. Also, the Cavalier Sheriff from Gun Heaven 2 is perfect for the idea.

It's an order of magnitude less expensive than Anchoring because it doesn't cost you karma every time you do it.

There's no particular need for special rules about possessed bullets. We have perfectly good rules (OK, we have rules) for possessed objects, and bullets are objects. It is definitely dual-natured because possessed objects are always dual-natured. It may or may not add damage/armor-piercing/anything else (since what rating get added is GMs discretion; I'd argue none of them should change). The bullet can't move on its own because bullets can't move on their own normally. The spirit has Initiative calculated based on its own stats (thus, Fx2/2), and has all of its powers.

So examples of the way you could use it would be to have a Man spirit with Innate Spell in the bullet, have it hold its action, shoot something, and then the spirit uses its held action to use a Touch range spell. You could do similar things with any Touch range power, like Engulf. And you don't need any funky rules to do it; all you have is a vessel that you have a creative way of moving around. You could also fire it at an astral form and have the spirit use its held action to attack the astral form as it goes by (using Astral Combat or some M power).

This was also suggested previously, and will also be answered in a forthcoming sourcebook. Seriously though, we don't have any official rulings on any of these astral/dual-natured/physics interaction questions. The FAQ makes some half-hearted attempts to talk about 'what if you hit a spirit with an active focus?' and '… what if that focus is a car?', but ultimately it just resorts to that mantra I've been quoting. Yuck.

I'm not saying it doesn't make *sense*, but hitting things with biofiber (or anything like that question) simply has no rules for it.

UmaroVI, I put 'expensive' in scare quotes because it's more like 'requires a mage to set up and babysit', etc. Expensive in time and opportunity costs, for example: you're using up that mage's one spirit, or X bound spirits, as I said. I agree, you could do the Innate Spell trick (I don't know why you'd bother, if you already have a spirit with Innate Spell). I'm not sure an immobile (inanimate?) object is capable of using Astral Combat on something it 'falls into' at all.

Just use a ghostrock cannon.

Inhabitation Elemental
Elemental Aura
Arrowhead
Arrow

Put elemental in Arrowhead
Screw arrowhead unto arrow shaft
Use 1 service when you tell the elemental to activate aura just before you shoot him with your bow/crossbow.

Hand crossbow (damage 2) with F6 elemental aura.

When arrow is stuck in the enemy tell it to engulf.

I have to wonder how much the spirit will appreciate being shot at an enemy like that. I would think that's a quick way to get spirits to spend edge to resist summoning.

Deadlands: Hell On Earth: Reloaded just went on sale, BTW.

Gel Ammo with FABIII in them.

I think you mean Capsule rounds. Gel rounds are just hard rubber.

OK, then use Capsule Rounds.

The Elemental Aura tricks *still* don't work: the spirit has to attack the target, not just happen to touch it. Same as the lightsaber ideas. And where did you find an *inhabitation* spirit for this trick? Surely it'd be better to just say, 'spirit, go wreck him'.

I guess it comes down to how your GM rules material world physics apply to astral beings. in newtonian physics, having a solid object impact with you at high velocities is going to do alot of damage. in astral physics, mass and velocity don't seem to have as much meaning as willpower and intent. I would imagine it's a simple (if not expensice) thing to make an FAB capsule round, or even a bullet cast from Orichalcum, or carved from a Naga Emerald (or any dual-natured rock), but whether or not that translates to a weapon that is more deadly to an astral being is another matter.

I would think it would make more sense to allow players, even non-magicaly active, to train themselves in the skill of Attack of Will.

There's another possibility: The "[Element] Aura" spell is a physical spell, thus can be set on any object, too. Normally it adds the caster's hits to the damage value in melee attacks, but it also hurts anybody who dares touch the spell's target (unlike the critter power "Elemental Aura", which only adds DV). So, what happens if a mage were to cast this spell onto a bullet? Of course, anybody and anything that touches that bullet would suffer damage, but there's some magical elements that do only stun damage. Stun damage does nothing to guns or casings. It requires a little effort (a little more, even), as the mage would have to see the bullet inside the shell to begin with, but it's doable.
Multiple damage from a single source is, I think, kind of prohibited in SR (no hitting somebody with inactive shock gloves and then activate them for further hurt), so could the damage value off the spell just add to the DV of the bullet (as a house rule to smooth things)?

The reason to do that with Innate Spell is if you want to be able to tag people with Touch range spells.

Astral Combat, yeah, it's not super useful anyways, since the spirit could always dispossess and just fight on the astral in the first place. It's more a comedy option.

I think probably the most generally useful form of this is going to be something like an Air or Fire spirit with Element Aura and Engulf, and the orders to, say, Engulf whoever gets hit and then spam Fear or whatever. That does quite a significant amount of damage and it's pretty solidly legal, too.

No, I agree that you're right: a touch spell would work. Are you saying there are touch spells that are way better than just having a spirit stunbolt people for you on its own initiative? I couldn't think of any, so it's a case of 'yeah, you *could* do that… but why?'. I just feel like a non-projectile spirit could always do the same thing better (even for your engulf example), unless the *whole* point is the gimmick of 'magic bullets'.

Remember that spirits of Man can't overcast (per the anniversary changes), so Stunbolt isn't quite as much win for them as it is for casters because you can't overcast to jack up the base damage. Nauseate is actually a really good spell for this; one net hit of Nauseate at middling force is much better than one net hit of Stunbolt at middling force (and unlike most other "remove from combat" type spells like Turn to Goo, it's Instant, not Sustained). Also, Nauseate is Mana, so you can Nauseate astral forms, which is a nice trick.

That said, yeah, to a certain extent it's a gimmick to let you fire magic bullets. I do stand by the Engulf tactic being a solid one, though, and the Nauseating Bullet is at least a reasonably useful gimmick.

Surely the shell which was inhabited/anchoring a spell would get damaged on impact, if not from microscoring when it is explosively ejected from the barrel? Wouldn't such damage to the shell destroy the anchor or damage the spirit?

*Handwaves*
It's magic!

The astral planes doesn't have physics. A dual natured bullet(say made out of orichalcum), would do nothing if it hit an astral form. Remember that you have no strength in the astral, you use your charisma score to harm things, and bullets don't have and charisma.

Where's this spell found?

Hmm...how would someone defend themselves against a physical attack from an EMBEDDED arrowhead?

How will an inhabitating spirit know what an object is used for? Its just a piece of sharp metal. It might object abit later when being fire though.

Digital grimoire.

Capsule Rounds with Glo-Moss and/or FAB III should be pretty damn painfull for Spirits and Wards and maybe even Barrier-Spells of all kinds.
And Super-Soakers filled with that stuff!

Thanks - must have misspelled it in the search of that book...

They don't, but neither can the arrowhead (which can't move) *make* an attack. And again, where are you getting these inhabitation spirits? If I had on, I could think of better uses for it.

Well...a character suffering from nausea receives double-wound modifiers, so that could actually have its uses when combined with physical damage. Again, it is so impractical though. Still, this whole discussion has me thinking about ways to create a magician sniper of some sorts, just to see how it could play out. The impracticality holds me back though...

Hehe, exactly. Your character would have to be kind of… eccentric. A 'normal' magician would 'snipe' with his infinite-range stunbolt, or *tell* a spirit to go get that guy (… because they can fly, hide in the astral, etc.).

It might be good for a long-term villain involving a magician sniper who uses firearms to cover up the true nature of his target's deaths...

You know, this reminds me of something my Mom always wanted...

She wanted an ice-launching weapon for her car to blow out the tires of asshole drivers. By the time the police come the ice has melted (we live in florida). Age old classic of an ice-bullet.

Your mom is kinda smart O.o

I think MythBusters pretty much proved that it wasn't possible, the force just shatters the ice before it can do damage. Maybe a shotgun slug at close range...

You should make your mom read Alan Dead Foster's, "Why Johnny Can't Speed" just to have fun with the car wars thing. Short story about a father getting revenge for his son in a world where armed and armored cars are legal.