Melee Combat without the Str Options

[DireRadiant]

Did we get to monofilament whip weapon focus yet?

[Umidori]

Who here has ever actually had a character that used a monofilament whip? Logically I realize the odds of slicing yourself in half with it aren't that bad with a big enough dice pool, but I tend to shy away from things that can fail spectacularly at a critical moment purely based on bad luck, so I've never had the balls to try one of them.

That and paying for Exotic Weapon Skills sucks.

~Umi

[Stahlseele]

With the event of Edge, i would even use more than one monowhip at the same time . .
critical glitch?
burn one point of edge for a critical success, glitch averted and something sliced up good . .

[Umidori]

Why... would you... burn a point... when you can merely spend... one to negate the glitch?

*head scratch*

Unless you had spent every last point already? I admit, that'd make critically glitching at a critical moment even worse than I was already thinking.

~Umi

[Stahlseele]

because i don't know much about the abuses of edge.
and negating a (critical) glitch while scoring a critical success sounds awesome to me.

[Yerameyahu]

Who here has ever actually had a character that used a monofilament whip? Logically I realize the odds of slicing yourself in half with it aren't that bad with a big enough dice pool, but I tend to shy away from things that can fail spectacularly at a critical moment purely based on bad luck, so I've never had the balls to try one of them.

That and paying for Exotic Weapon Skills sucks.

We don't use them because they're too *good*, honestly.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Think I have 1 character that used one. As a Backup Weapon in a Fingertip Compartment (Johnny Mnemonic Style). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) *shrug*

[Stahlseele]

if i thought i could get the pool high enough to make it not too dangerous, i'd use one in every finger . .

[UmaroVI]

It's an OK weapon; it competes with electric clubs for a good melee weapon with low STR. Exotic Weapon kind of blows; you're effectively losing 2 dice (no specialization), but the Monowhip is very concealable, better reach, better damage, and Physical. It mostly suffers if Arsenal's MA rules are used; they can't be TWS'd, and they don't play nice with a lot of the martial arts styles, whereas taser clubs work with both.

[Stahlseele]

On the other Hand: If you can use the Monowhip, you can use an ordinary whip as well. Instant Bondage and Indiana Jones Impersonations!

[All4BigGuns]

On the other Hand: If you can use the Monowhip, you can use an ordinary whip as well. Instant Bondage and Indiana Jones Impersonations!

Could you use both kinds with one skill? I mainly ask because I can easily foresee some saying that you'd need one skill for a normal whip and a separate one for the Monowhip (I disagree with this, but I can see it happening).

[Stahlseele]

Exotic Melee Weapon(Whips) < = not allowed?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Exotic Melee Weapon(Whips) < = not allowed?

The Idea is that Each Exotic Weapon requires a Different Skill.
Exotic Weapon - Whips
Exotic Weapon - MonoWhip.

I would likely allow one skill to cover both, personally, since Exotic Weapon - Laser covers all Lasers except the emplaced Vehicle Laser (which is likely covered by Gunnery, though not sure about that one).

[Stahlseele]

The exotic weapon skill is a dumb idea in my eyes anyway . .
Just because the Laser-Pistol does not fire bullets but a stream of light i need to completeley relearn how to aim a barrel and pull a trigger while assisted by smartlink technology?
Yeah, sure . . whatever you say . .

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The exotic weapon skill is a dumb idea in my eyes anyway . .
Just because the Laser-Pistol does not fire bullets but a stream of light i need to completeley relearn how to aim a barrel and pull a trigger while assisted by smartlink technology?
Yeah, sure . . whatever you say . .

Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Umidori]

Well if we don't use the current arbitrary standards, we have to use other equally arbitrary standards! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

~Umi

[Udoshi]

Who here has ever actually had a character that used a monofilament whip? Logically I realize the odds of slicing yourself in half with it aren't that bad with a big enough dice pool, but I tend to shy away from things that can fail spectacularly at a critical moment purely based on bad luck, so I've never had the balls to try one of them.

That and paying for Exotic Weapon Skills sucks.

~Umi

I had a technomancer use one. A stealthsamurai build using biowires/acceleration.
The exotic weapon skill was used via Biowires, as a complex form, with a sprite using Stability on it. (the whole node, actaully, but also that program in specific)
I think my other plan was to smartlink it(it does nothing, but it does make it an electronic device) and use Stability directly on the whip.

People always freaked out when he used the whip, because the weapons have a certain reputation... but it never ended badly. For our side.


Also, I'm of the mind that Exotic Weapons should instead be made into Exotic Weapon GROUPS - lasers cover all lasers, monowire covers both garrotes and whips, Polearms net you all those funky things like halberds from Arsenal. Flamethrowers work on all flamethrowers. Laser Designators on all Laser Designators
And then further allows specialization by specific weapon in the group. IE Lasers(redline +2). To some extent, it already does work like this, but falls apart in some edge cases like.... which skill you use for Monowhips vs Garrotes vs Mono-garrotes vs Regular Whips. It seems like there should be some crossover here, you know? On a side note, there needs to be an exotic group for Ranged Cyber-Implant weapons, and Melee Cyber-implant weapons. because if a samurai wants to use implanted weapons, it would be nice if they had one skill that covered all that funky built-into-your-body stuff.

I can understand making exotic skills rarer..... but they should be just as good as the "main" skills with the right training.
As is, the only way to get a specialization on an exotic skill is through the Martial Arts clause that allows MA as a spec on weapon skills. Which I find kinda stupid.

[Yerameyahu]

Do you use the same skill for garroting as whipping? :/ Otherwise, sure.

[Udoshi]

Do you use the same skill for garroting as whipping? :/ Otherwise, sure.

No, the point is that you use a different skill for each garrote and each whip. Between those items, those take 4 different weapon skills to use them all.
IE: the "Oh GOD WHY can't i use the whips skill I ALREADY have to use this DIFFERENT whip!" factor.

[Umidori]

Technically the Whips one does include the usage of Chains... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

~Umi

[All4BigGuns]

No, the point is that you use a different skill for each garrote and each whip. Between those items, those take 4 different weapon skills to use them all.
IE: the "Oh GOD WHY can't i use the whips skill I ALREADY have to use this DIFFERENT whip!" factor.

I only asked on the Exotic skill for the whip weapons because that is something I wasn't entirely clear on, but I think I'll continue ruling that there is one skill for all whips.

[Yerameyahu]

Udoshi, I asked because you said, "monowire covers both garrotes and whips". That seemed like you said the same skill (not a Group, just a category like Automatics) for a garrote and a whip.

[Halinn]

Monowhips and regular whips could be very different in weight, in a fashion akin to lightsabers and regular swords. That would make handling them significantly different.
The issue here is that Shadowrun doesn't have a system of defaulting skills to other skills.

[Udoshi]

Udoshi, I asked because you said, "monowire covers both garrotes and whips". That seemed like you said the same skill (not a Group, just a category like Automatics) for a garrote and a whip.

Also, I'm of the mind that Exotic Weapons should instead be made into Exotic Weapon GROUPS.

You missed this critical detail.
how are you confusing whips and garrotes? A whips skill that covers all whips, a garrotes skill that covers all garrotes, and a monowire skill that covers all monowire based weapons seems...... (i'm going to be really blunt here)
.... really easy to grasp. Where's the confusion?

It also seems that All4BigGuns agrees with me.

[Yerameyahu]

See, you did it again: "a monowire skill that covers all monowire based weapons". *This*, as I said, makes no sense. That's why I asked you twice what the heck you meant. A garrote and a whip (of any kind) are very different. You might as well have a skill that covers all steel-based weapons.

I can see *maybe* having one skill for whips and monowhips (though they're probably very different, honestly), and I could certainly see one skill for garrotes and mono-garrotes. I don't see one skill covering monowhips and monogarrotes *together*, so I did you the courtesy of making sure that's what you intended to say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I wasn't sure, because you used the word 'GROUPS', but what you described a) didn't sound like a Skill Group, and b) still doesn't make sense to have garrotes and whips in the same category of any kind.

I don't see where All4BigGuns agrees with you, but their opinion doesn't seem important anyway.