No Magic, No Gear, No Direction, Restrictions breed creativity! Options

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Actually, the reason for these restrictions is much simpler: We're playing as military very early in the timeline, relatively speaking. (We're talking pre-2050 here.) So when I mean "no gear," I mean none--I'm not sure exactly when the year is, but when we start there might not even *be* cyberware. While this isn't what I expect to be the case, it does mean that I'm assuming 1) we won't have any for a while and 2) neither will the opposition, so it shouldn't be a problem.

We're going to get assigned gear, but I think the GM is waiting to see what people build before he determines exactly what it is. I think, for example, that a specialist is therefore an acceptable path here; I'm just not sure how to do it without traditional augs.

Some of the ideas here are pretty good; Jury-Rigger in particular is something I might not have previously looked at. I'm still not sure about some of it, though... thanks for the ideas, folks, and if you've got any more I'd love to hear 'em. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

A-ha! So you were keeping info from us. Just knowing 'military' is a huge difference.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Mostly I just didn't want a bunch of people telling me to demand knowing what we'd be given--that wouldn't help me too much personally and might just create bad blood.

[BishopMcQ]

With that setup, I'd look at SR2050 for a better attitude and setting. Beyond that, shifting down the dice pool expectations will probably be necessary.

The extra points from gear can go to more Kn skills and round out. A marine corps expert marksman would be skill 5 with high Agi, but likely have athletics, the outdoor skill group, some driving skills. If your group is making a squad, they'll all have basic combat skills and a specialty--EOD, Recon, etc.

Goodluck, sounds like a fun premise.

[thorya]

You should play a character I like to call- The Hidden Mountain

A Troll that has maxed out his stealth skills and specializes in Urban Infiltration. Give him some melee skills or archery and some demolitions skills. You've got a kick-ass infiltration expert/assassin, who can take a bullet or five and out-run anyone after them in case they screw up and can do more with silent weapons than a lot of guns. Round him out with some socials skills and some other necessary skills. People always expect infiltration experts to be humans or elves and the decreased agility is a draw back, but the image of an eight foot tall troll hiding in the shadows is awesome.

[Udoshi]

With those restrictions I'd say either go for something that's an outlandish or hilarious concept that will be fun to play no matter the numbers, or make a generalist with high edge.

~Umi

Another dose of Totally Not Helping.

I've always wanted to make a character with as many outlandish Incompetent perks as possible. Not as any attempt to dodge the system and get free BP, but as a sort of.... GM Creativity Test. Just to see if they have what it takes to introduce all these concepts into the game.

I mean outlandish stuff like Incompetent: Pilot Space Shuttle and Pilot: Hot Air Balloon. Exotic Weapons, too.

if I was feeling mean, I might throw Amnesia into the mix.

[All4BigGuns]

Actually, the reason for these restrictions is much simpler: We're playing as military very early in the timeline, relatively speaking. (We're talking pre-2050 here.) So when I mean "no gear," I mean none--I'm not sure exactly when the year is, but when we start there might not even *be* cyberware. While this isn't what I expect to be the case, it does mean that I'm assuming 1) we won't have any for a while and 2) neither will the opposition, so it shouldn't be a problem.

We're going to get assigned gear, but I think the GM is waiting to see what people build before he determines exactly what it is. I think, for example, that a specialist is therefore an acceptable path here; I'm just not sure how to do it without traditional augs.

Some of the ideas here are pretty good; Jury-Rigger in particular is something I might not have previously looked at. I'm still not sure about some of it, though... thanks for the ideas, folks, and if you've got any more I'd love to hear 'em. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I still advise sitting out of this. Too much chance that the 'assigned gear' will be the most worthless things in the book picked pretty much 'because noone ever takes it'. When game ideas like this come up, the old adage 'Trust No One' is a good piece of advice.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Well, then, I suppose a gear-independent character might be in order. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Speed Wraith]

Unlike All4, I see now what the point is and feel like the gear restrictions are more reasonable, wish you would have said as much to begin with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) . Going true to the timeline would mean you'd be playing more or less in the present day plus 15-20 years, say 2030s. Some cyber is available, bioware, not so much. Magic is still fresh and seriously rare. I'd bet your GM is going to flag one of you to awaken (in this scenario, that's what I'd do).

There is no excuse not to blow half your points on attributes, but that's what I think regardless of the circumstances. Assuming the normal restrictions on qualities is in place, that leaves you tons of points to use on skills. Since you'll have so many points for skills, I imagine your group will end up meta-heavy. After all, 40 pts for a troll isn't so scary when you're left with 150 or more for skills. Heck, Edge doesn't count for that attribute cap, pump lots of points into it.

[DMiller]

I'd actually suggest getting with the other players (I'm assuming this isn't a one-on-one game) and see what everyone is thinking for characters. It sounds like you may be building a small military unit/group. You should try to balance abilities around the group and be sure everyone has at least basic combat training. You as players decide what type of group you are and build around the group concept rather than just individuals that are thrown together which is typical in a "normal" SR game.

Just my 2 ¥

-D

[Midas]

It also has an impact on potential Qualities. Don't know if you can take Buggy Ware, for example, and is it worth it to consider a Black Market Pipeline? What about Restricted Gear?

Although it would be wise to check with the GM on his thinking, I think Buggy Ware and Restricted Gear could be quite useful in the low-cyber military campaign we now know this to be. If Restricted Gear gets you a piece of experimental cyber in a low-cyber campaign it could be pretty powerful. And balanced out with Buggy Ware could play up on the "experimental" side of things ...

[Midas]

I still advise sitting out of this. Too much chance that the 'assigned gear' will be the most worthless things in the book picked pretty much 'because noone ever takes it'. When game ideas like this come up, the old adage 'Trust No One' is a good piece of advice.

Not sure why you keep posting in this thread. You obviously have GM trust issues yourself, and have posted (not once but twice) that you would not take part in such a game.

The OP implicitly trusts his GM to make it a fun game, and has asked for build advice given the restrictions his GM has given (no magic, gear and perhaps very limited cyber to be assigned by the GM). Given this, it is clear you have nothing more constructive to add to this thread.

[Midas]

Actually, the reason for these restrictions is much simpler: We're playing as military very early in the timeline, relatively speaking. (We're talking pre-2050 here.) So when I mean "no gear," I mean none--I'm not sure exactly when the year is, but when we start there might not even *be* cyberware. While this isn't what I expect to be the case, it does mean that I'm assuming 1) we won't have any for a while and 2) neither will the opposition, so it shouldn't be a problem.

We're going to get assigned gear, but I think the GM is waiting to see what people build before he determines exactly what it is. I think, for example, that a specialist is therefore an acceptable path here; I'm just not sure how to do it without traditional augs.

Some of the ideas here are pretty good; Jury-Rigger in particular is something I might not have previously looked at. I'm still not sure about some of it, though... thanks for the ideas, folks, and if you've got any more I'd love to hear 'em. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks for the clarification. Military campaign makes certain archetypes (Detective, my hacker/face suggestion [unless he is Psych Ops]) redundant, and you should probably spend some of your BP on Athletics and/or Outdoors skill groups and other military-themed skills.

Given the military theme, I would be tempted to either go rigger or infiltrator. Even if the GM doesn't give you nice drone toys out the box, I am sure a rigger will soon be able to procure some, and as Umarov said, as long as you have suitable mechanic skills (+ poss jury-rigger), it won't be long before you can build your drone army with bolted-on automatic weapons ...

[phlapjack77]

If you're part of a small military unit, the standard SR tropes (street sam, etc) don't really apply as much.

This sounds more like everyone in the unit should have good general skills (athletics, firearms, close combat, survival, etc), then everyone can branch off to be something special. Heavy weapons guy, mechanic/drone guy, infiltrator guy, leader guy, science/brainiac guy, communications/hacker guy. Mix and match as desired. You should be able to cover all of your skills, as you won't be spending BP on resources or magic.

I'm seeing the team from Aliens in my mind here. Dibs on Hudson! (comm/hacker guy)

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Okay, so a generalist spread with a specialty. Think it's worth gambling on the kind of gun I get if I want to go weapons specialist? And can you guys be more specific about generalist skills I might want in this sort of game?

[phlapjack77]

I wouldn't bet on the type of weapon - maybe get a 3 or 4 in the Firearms group, then get Heavy Weapons (with a spec if you really want one)

As far as general skills for a military-type char, everyone's opinion will probably vary. Mine is the Outdoors skill group (2?), Athletics skill group (2?), Disguise (Camo), Infiltration, Unarmed Combat, First Aid, and the above-mentioned Firearms group.

It also depends if you guys are supposed to be spec.ops, just out of basic training grunts, exp. veterans, etc.

[Speed Wraith]

As for skills, what phlapjack77 said, except you'll probably have larger numbers since you have so many skill points. Also, I'd consider taking a martial arts quality. Find out who is going to do demolitions, who will do B&E, and who is your face, among your players.

I'm not sure about gambling on the gun. I'm assuming your GM will be reviewing your characters and assigning what is appropriate, so I think if one of you pulled out a sniper and another showed a CQB and a third had a high Heavy Weapon skill, then those characters would be provided with appropriate weapons. I'd probably avoid specialties though.

[ZeroPoint]

Though Assault rifles would still be a decent bet for any rifleman. They are still the primary weapon in 6th world armies.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, as always, 'Automatics' should have you totally covered, which of course includes ARs. Might be nice to have the whole group though… you never know.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, as always, 'Automatics' should have you totally covered, which of course includes ARs. Might be nice to have the whole group though… you never know.

Yeah, My Minimal Gear (47,000 Nuyen Worth, man that goes quick), No Magic, No Ware character took the whole group precisely because you never know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Though I am a bit partial to the AK-147 SMG.

[Midas]

Well, as always, 'Automatics' should have you totally covered, which of course includes ARs. Might be nice to have the whole group though… you never know.

I would go group, you may have to scavenge for some weapons, and it would be a shame to pass up on that tricked out sniper rifle of the enemy you just took out just to save a few BP (it's not like you need to either). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

As for other skills, as already suggested Athletics and Outdoors group. I'm quite a fan of skill groups, so I would also recommend the Stealth group - you are already going to need Infiltration (natch) and Disguise (for creating a sniping hide), and Palming could also prove useful (smuggling guns past checkpoints, hiding one on you if you're captured etc). Hell, you could consider Shadowing a freebie ...

Then, as suggested, you could choose a unit niche such as communications (hacker), rigger, scout, heavy weapons/demolitions specialist, sniper, leader (face) ... and as several posters have said, see what functions the other people in your group intend to cover as well so as a team you have all the bases covered.

Please let us know what you come up with, will be interesting to see what you decide to do ...

[almost normal]

I'm thinking about getting into a game with the standard BP spread, but with SR4A metas only, no magic, and gear provided but unknown. (So, in other words, we don't get any gear at creation, but still get standard BP.)

One simple question: What the hell do I build? My usual suspects (street sam and face) are out, so's rigger, and I hate playing hackers. Thoughts?

Tell your GM that he's awesome.

Magic *should* be rare, but every idiot gamer feels entitled to it. The game states that less then 1% of the population is awakened, and only a small subset of that can wield it effectively.

Imagine how cool King Arthur would have been if had the powers of Merlin?
Imagine how cool Lord of the Rings would be if everyone had the powers of Gandalf?

Gamer idiocy aside, I say go with a Yak. You'll have the pipeline for upgrades, and a fun story no matter how it plays out.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Tell your GM that he's awesome.

Magic *should* be rare, but every idiot gamer feels entitled to it. The game states that less then 1% of the population is awakened, and only a small subset of that can wield it effectively.

Imagine how cool King Arthur would have been if had the powers of Merlin?
Imagine how cool Lord of the Rings would be if everyone had the powers of Gandalf?

Gamer idiocy aside, I say go with a Yak. You'll have the pipeline for upgrades, and a fun story no matter how it plays out.

That being Said, Magicians are MUCH more prevelant than Lawyers are in America. We have the highest density of Lawyers (1 in 265, with Brazil 2nd at 1 in 326) in the world. Doctors top in at 1 in 200 in Cambodia, who leads the world in Doctor Ratio. So... Magicians are not as rare as you are making them out to be. Just saying... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I can name a few of each profession that I know personally. Means I will likely know 2-3 times more Magicians in the 6th WOrld.

[Yerameyahu]

Gandalf… *what* powers? Worthless Maiar, no lightning bolts, hmf.

Anyway, the issue isn't 'no magic'. It's 'no gear, no info, no nothing'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Revealing that it's a military game goes a long way toward alleviating that problem, though.

[Speed Wraith]

Gandalf… *what* powers? Worthless Maiar, no lightning bolts, hmf.

Anyway, the issue isn't 'no magic'. It's 'no gear, no info, no nothing'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Revealing that it's a military game goes a long way toward alleviating that problem, though.

Seriously, lamest wizard ever. Mickey Mouse used more magic in ten minutes than he did in four books.