Implanted Comlink and Sim Modules Options

[spica2501]

I'm making a Shadowrun Missions characters for Gen Con. The character has a headware comlink and I want to include a sim module. My question is whether I can add a sim module to the comlink as normal and implant the two together or if I have to buy the separate sim module headware? Since this is a Missions character, I need an official ruling.

[Falconer]

You have to buy a separate sim module. No freebies. And strictly by the book... even if you were by fluff to have the sim module built into the commlink you'd still need to buy it as a separate accessory.


Look at the cyberware suites in Augmentation. Even the one which says includes a commlink with built-in sim-module. Pays an additional essence cost for the sim module. (calculate the essence cost of the suite and you come up 0.2 short). There would be no reason for an implantable sim module if you could get away with that kind of a dodge in the book.

[Udoshi]

Now, what you can do is snag a datajack and connect to an external commlink that also has a hotsim module accessory.

Or, if you're feeling really paranoid about being hacked back, implant just the hotsim module and use an external commlink.

Its worth noting that a Simrig automatically comes with a built-in sim module, and its almost cheaper to get THAT hotsimm hacked than getting a seperate hotsim implant.

[Yerameyahu]

Simrig automatically comes with a built-in sim module

Yeah, nothing about this stuff makes any sense.

[Wakshaani]

Yeah, nothing about this stuff makes any sense.

There are a few other head-scratchers out there, like how the Defiance EX Taser has a built-in contact port that allows you to use it in melee like a stun baton but with better damage and at less than half the cost (And a lower availability AND unrestricted!), while the 50 Y Survival Knife includes a 200Y GPS.

Gear is kinda weird.

[Neraph]

while the 50 Y Survival Knife includes a 200Y GPS.

Gear is kinda weird.

Shhh! You're giving away my "get rich quick" secrets! Buy survival knives, remove the GPS, and resell GPS. Nuyen out the wazoo!

[spica2501]

There are a few other head-scratchers out there, like how the Defiance EX Taser has a built-in contact port that allows you to use it in melee like a stun baton but with better damage and at less than half the cost (And a lower availability AND unrestricted!), while the 50 Y Survival Knife includes a 200Y GPS.

Gear is kinda weird.

The most infuriating one is emotitoys. 3000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) of empathy software for 600 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) with no availability rating. Emotitoys are all out banned in the games I run. It's also pretty annoying that the eye recording unit retinal mod costs more than even the most expensive cyber eye, which includes an eye recording unit and an image link. My character is an elf, so I wanted to get retinal mods in order to preserve my natural low light vision but doing so was much more expensive than just getting my eyes replaced.

[JonathanC]

The most infuriating one is emotitoys. 3000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) of empathy software for 600 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) with no availability rating. Emotitoys are all out banned in the games I run. It's also pretty annoying that the eye recording unit retinal mod costs more than even the most expensive cyber eye, which includes an eye recording unit and an image link. My character is an elf, so I wanted to get retinal mods in order to preserve my natural low light vision but doing so was much more expensive than just getting my eyes replaced.

Emotitoys have always bothered me as well. I'm curious, though, if anyone actually allows them, and if so what effect it has had on their game. Also, has there ever been an explanation for the price discrepancy?

[spica2501]

The effect of emotitoys on a game depends on whether your GM is a dumb ass or not. If your GM is a dumb ass then you will always beat the NPCs on social rolls because you have an emotitoy that gives you plus six dice and they do not (because the GM is a dumb ass and hasn't been able to figure out how your social dice pools are so high). If your GM is not a dumb ass, but for some reason has not banned emotitoys, then all they are is dice inflation because everyone one will have a rating 6 emotitoy (except PCs with particularly dumb players).

[Yerameyahu]

Ha, tell us how you really feel! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not that I disagree, heh. Something like the 'toy/Empathy software makes sense for the setting, but the bonus is simply too big. … So make it smaller.

[Wakshaani]

The most infuriating one is emotitoys. 3000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) of empathy software for 600 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) with no availability rating. Emotitoys are all out banned in the games I run. It's also pretty annoying that the eye recording unit retinal mod costs more than even the most expensive cyber eye, which includes an eye recording unit and an image link. My character is an elf, so I wanted to get retinal mods in order to preserve my natural low light vision but doing so was much more expensive than just getting my eyes replaced.

If I had my druthers, they'd all die in a fire.

Maybe Horizon will start sponsoring 'runs against their factory to put them out of business? Then the rarity will go, up the street prices will jump to 6000Y or more, bringing them back with theprice/power curve.

If there's a way to get them together into a giant ball and shoot 'em into the Sun, I'll back it all day long.

[spica2501]

Ha, tell us how you really feel! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Not that I disagree, heh. Something like the 'toy/Empathy software makes sense for the setting, but the bonus is simply too big. … So make it smaller.

Empathy software itself is not nearly so bad. It can only have a rating equal to your comlink's system or response (whichever is lower) and you have to have cyber eyes or an eye recording unit to use it (or a hidden drone or spy camera pointed at the targets face, but that's a bit less practical and a sensible GM would apply penalties for doing so)

[Yerameyahu]

I wouldn't call it impractical. I can't think of a game where I didn't have whole suites of sensors trained on people all the time, including personal stuff. Even without that, you don't need any cyber, because trodes (simrig) are handling that. But yes, you're right: the main issues with the 'toy are 'uncapped' Rating, and 'having a toy there'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Krishach]

emotitoys seem broken in our game as well, since the GM balances them by having our opposing team using them also. In-person negotiations can almost always assume both sides are with a +6 bonus, and we do a lot of interactions by Matrix to bypass such abuse. Usually gear whose sole purpose is to give a bonus, that no one worth his salt would ever be without, tends to be unbalanced.

Even all sides being equal that way, +6 dice from the thing cheapens a faces BP/karma paid stats. With emotitoy, our standard runner rolls about 8-10 dice for socials, and our mages can sit at 14 or more. A face having 20 dice in comparison is nice, about 80%-100% higher. But without the toy, it would be 2-4, 6-8, and 14, making the face 700% of the lowest dice pool instead. Relatively, it's a major difference just by taking away emotitoy.

[Glyph]

I find the 6 dice extremely excessive. That is double what you get from glamour, maxed-out kinesics, or maxed-out tailored pheromones. And it is yet another social skill modifier which stacks with everything else, which is the last thing social skills need.

[Midas]

I agree 100% and emotitoys just don't exist at my table. Pure houserule territory, but I also don't allow Kinesics to stack with Tailored Pheremones to stop Adept/Mys Ad being a must for face characters and put skilled mundanes back to within a few dice of their awakened counterparts. And before I get a backlash of "Oh no, you can't possibly do that" from the forum, let me point out that the Adept Power Increase (Social) Skill still makes Adepts better than their mundane counterparts can hope ever to be at facing for a ridiculous cost of 0.25PP/level ...

[Shortstraw]

emotitoys seem broken in our game as well, since the GM balances them by having our opposing team using them also.

Pikachu I choose you!

[JonathanC]

I feel bad outright banning anything, but emotitoys are bad enough that even my players don't seem to like them. Who wrote them into the setting in the first place, anyway? I'm surprised the writer hasn't popped up to defend him/herself yet.

[Neraph]

Since additional dice to a dicepool is limited by Skill + Attribute the tables I play at are not too worried about Emotitoys. Johnsons don't use them - they have the actual software (and the thermographic one that adds an additional +2 for detecting lies), so I don't much see the problem. If cost is the only thing you're worried about then I remind you that you can buy both (emotitoy, software) with only one build point - and yes, the 'ware is five times more expensive than the toy, but it's inconsequential. I've never even done a 'run that pays out less than 2k per person (as in: money is not an issue). When you factor in how easy it is to get bonuses to a social skill it ends up not really mattering too much anyways (not to mention how... less useful/important social skills are. You can easily have mitigating circumstances that automatically come into play with regards to social skills - the Johnson can't pay out above a certain amount, the guard still doesn't trust you with a drawn weapon, the ork gangers still don't like an elf, ect.).

That being said, I can see a push for Emotitoys being capped at rating 3 under their current costs. That fulfills their fluff role while still allowing the software to pull ahead.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I agree 100% and emotitoys just don't exist at my table. Pure houserule territory, but I also don't allow Kinesics to stack with Tailored Pheremones to stop Adept/Mys Ad being a must for face characters and put skilled mundanes back to within a few dice of their awakened counterparts. And before I get a backlash of "Oh no, you can't possibly do that" from the forum, let me point out that the Adept Power Increase (Social) Skill still makes Adepts better than their mundane counterparts can hope ever to be at facing for a ridiculous cost of 0.25PP/level ...

That may be. But Is it really abused (of course a magically adept face will be better than a non-magically adept face)? Pornomancer builds on Dumpshock aside, I have never seen it abused at an actual table, therre are just way too many other things that are interesting to have, and you can only have a max of 3 Levels of Increase (Social) Skill, and there are other requirements that must be satisfied (Required Skill levels to actiuall use the SKill Boosts). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That being said, I can see a push for Emotitoys being capped at rating 3 under their current costs. That fulfills their fluff role while still allowing the software to pull ahead.

I think a rating 1 cap is more than sufficient for the Emotitoy, since it is nothing more than a toy (Furby anyone?). Want the good bonuses, get the good hardware and programs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Of course, we do not use the Emotitoy at our table. It exists, but only as a toy for children.

[Yerameyahu]

It's obviously much more than 'just a toy'. That's not the problem. The problem is: a) its rating *stacks* as a DP mod, b) it's underpriced, c) Empathy software probably shouldn't be *that* powerful anyway.

If they want to make 'social interaction' autosofts, that's fine (… that's what a 'friend toy' should have), but you wouldn't expect up to a +6 *DP mod* from such a thing. Humans already have a high 'social autosoft' baseline and duplicating that wouldn't aid them. The extra stuff (facial microgestures, etc.) is what we want, and it should provide a modest bonus for a reasonable price.

[KarmaInferno]

I am personally leaning toward houserule limiting the effectiveness of any individual dice pool bonus to half the relevant linked attribute, just like the Adept skill boost.

So you could buy a Rating 6 emotitoy but if you have a Charisma of 2 it ain't gonna help much. And overall it has a practical limit of 3 or so for most folks.



-k

[Yerameyahu]

Well, that's something that's been bandied about a lot for all kinds of DP mods. On one hand, you've got 'the more skilled you are, the better you can use the bonus'; but, there's also 'more-skilled people have less to gain from this'. Obviously, these are exactly in opposition. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It kind of depends on the specific mod, for me. Some things are crutches for beginners (possibly very effective ones!), while others offer subtle edges that only a master can make use of. … And some things are in between, or offer a combination of 'bonus effects' that balance out in the end.

Examples of these aren't too hard for us to imagine. A novice would benefit a lot from a recipe, an AR overlay 'instruction manual', or turn-by-turn navigation; an expert is already beyond each of those, given the appropriate situation. And an expert sniper gains a lot from knowing the range, temperature, wind, etc., while that raw data is meaningless to the less skilled. :/

For this *specific* issues (emotitoy/Empathy), I think we can agree that the bonus should be smaller in general, and that high-end social users already have vastly more than enough bonus sources.

[Shortstraw]

We just use emotitoys as an alternative to a commlink for running empathy software so you can get high rating software and not pay out the nose for a good commlink if you don't need it.