Can't decide on a which pistol to use Options

[Raiden]

Hey, i'm making a phyad char for a run, we were given 450 BP to start with so i find myself with enough left over to get some weapon focuses and the hard part now is deciding on said weapons. I was wondering if anyone could give me some pros and cons on using either the Ruger Super Warhawks, or the Ruger Thunderbolts. (+2 wep foci each). (no smartgun atm tho, just lasersights). the char concept is that he is an ex Swat member that got framed by some crooked cops, he had to go underground and took most of his possessions with him. (he is now a part time PI and runner under different name)

[CanRay]

One of each for guns akimbo!

If the right one don't get ya the left one will.

[Raiden]

well I was feeling towards dualing either one or the other /:. i heard you can make the warhawks SA with a mod from arsenal so they are looking a bit better now. but BF is still nice for a pistol lol

[Glyph]

Pistols cannot be enchanted as weapon foci (unless you are using them to pistol-whip people), unless your GM is doing some serious house ruling.

[Mantis]

Yeah, best you can do is get initiated and take attunement:pistols. Weapon foci are a melee only thing and unless you melee harden those pistols there is no reason to make them foci.
As for which to choose, the Warhawks are nice, high damage guns but suffer from a small ammo capacity, can't use silencers and need a mod just to be SA. Good if you don't mind being loud.
Thunderbolts are BF only, but can take a suppressor. Problem is you can't get them fully recoil comped since they can't use a gas vent (not allowed for pistols). However, as an adept, you can get adept centering once you initiate and use that to compensate for the recoil penalties. They also only fire narrow burst, so no using them to take away dodge from agile enemies.
I'd add extended mag to the Thunderbolt, get it smartlinked and get contact lenses with image link and smartlink. Also add personalized grip and maybe auto-adjusting weight to help with recoil (depends on how the GM interprets mod vs. accessory).

[Raiden]

Thanks for the info. I never used foci before except for spellcasting. and I thought I read at one point you could get RC from having a high str. or is that only with certain things? and can one initiate if they have taken augmentations? I cant seem to find anything really about that in the book. and is there a way to increase ammo cap. for the warhawk? like an extended clip would work for other pistols?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Thanks for the info. I never used foci before except for spellcasting. and I thought I read at one point you could get RC from having a high str. or is that only with certain things? and can one initiate if they have taken augmentations? I cant seem to find anything really about that in the book. and is there a way to increase ammo cap. for the warhawk? like an extended clip would work for other pistols?

1. Yes you can get RC from High Strength (Arsenal)
2. Yes you Can Initiate with Augmentations. They do not keep you from advancing your Magic.
3. Increasing Ammo Capacity for a Warhawk (Increased Cylinder - Arsenal)

Hope that helps... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Halinn]

Recoil compensation from strength is an optional rule from Arsenal page 163:

RECOIL AND STRENGTH
In addition to modifications to the weapons and various accessories, characters can reduce a weapon’s recoil penalty simply by having extraordinary Strength. A character with Strength of 6–9 has 1 point of recoil compensation, Strength 10–13 has 2 points, Strength 14–17 has 3 points, and Strength 18+ has 4 points.

[Stingray]

Recoil compensation from strength is an optional rule from Arsenal page 163:

..Adding Personalized grip and Under-barrel weight modifications + STR to RC
to Thunderbolt's standard 2 RC => 5 RC..

[Raiden]

Thanks guys! alright think my guy is read to go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . but one other question in your own opinions should I put points into autmatics, or long arms and why? how often would you use a sniper rifle in an actual game? guess that technically two questions lol. oh and thanks for the stats on str rec.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Thanks guys! alright think my guy is read to go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . but one other question in your own opinions should I put points into autmatics, or long arms and why? how often would you use a sniper rifle in an actual game? guess that technically two questions lol. oh and thanks for the stats on str rec.

Depends upon the Character. My Mercenary has all Firearms Skills, since he may be called upon to use any type of weapon at any time. Others only take Pistols, or Automatics, or Longarms. Depends upon the style of the character.

As for the Sniper Rifle. Used them a time or two in game, over the years. Not real common, since a Good AR/BR can cover the majority of situations that will crop up for a Sniper character. Of course, Shotguns are in the Longarm category as well, and they are a pretty solid choice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

I forgot the most important question: Which one looks better in the character's hand?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I forgot the most important question: Which one looks better in the character's hand?

Style over Substance... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Raiden]

k, my guy is an ex swat member ( or basically the equivalent) and he is a sharpshooter, lol so I dunno, dont particulary want to waste the points for a sniper if they arent used much, and my char wouldnt use a shotgun. he has the idea that automatic weps just waste ammo (spray and pray).

[Malbur]

The last game I played in, i was specialized as a sniper (actually took up hacking as we didn't have a hacker or rigger) which basically meant i infiltrated a nearby building and got in position and guiding the team in and out. How often did I use a sniper rifle? Every run, but I also was staying away from the action as I was also hacking the systems from afar. I personally loved it.

[CanRay]

k, my guy is an ex swat member ( or basically the equivalent) and he is a sharpshooter, lol so I dunno, dont particulary want to waste the points for a sniper if they arent used much, and my char wouldnt use a shotgun. he has the idea that automatic weps just waste ammo (spray and pray).

Most SWAT Snipers would use Battle Rifles, which fall under Automatics. Best of both worlds, range of a Rifle with the Automatic Firepower of an Assault Rifle.

And a great amount of discussion and argument here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Most SWAT Snipers would use Battle Rifles, which fall under Automatics. Best of both worlds, range of a Rifle with the Automatic Firepower of an Assault Rifle.

And a great amount of discussion and argument here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

If I remember correctly, Most SWAT Snipers (They are reaslly Marksmen, actually) use a modified Hunting Rifle in some variation of 7mm. You will not normally see a SWAT Sniper with a Military Grade Barrett.

[Umidori]

Small caliber precision weapons for police marksmen. Don't want collateral damage.

~Umi

[CanRay]

If I remember correctly, Most SWAT Snipers (They are reaslly Marksmen, actually) use a modified Hunting Rifle in some variation of 7mm. You will not normally see a SWAT Sniper with a Military Grade Barrett.

Battle Rifle would be more like an M-14 than a Barrett.

[Umidori]

Still too much risk of overpenetration, and actually rather inaccurate in comparison to high precision rifles.

~Umi

[Whipstitch]

The accuracy issue has more to do with being an old select fire design than anything wrong with the round, however. A lot of departments do prefer .223 but nobody's exactly shocked to find SWAT using members of the .30 family either.

[Mantis]

For an ex-SWAT marksman, take longarms. It suits the archetype the best and seems the most likely skill to have learned. Sure Automatics is the go to uber skill but if you want to stick to your concept, longarms and pistols is what you should have.
Pick up the PSG sniper rifle from Arsenal as it is the one listed as most used by SWAT teams. Ability to use a shotgun suits a cop as a bonus weapon for in close work at ranges beyond the pistol. If you need your rifle to be concealable, grab the Easy Breakdown mod for it so you can stuff it in a suitcase or gym bag or what have you. Add ceramic components if you want to be totally stealthy. No need for recoil comp as most or all sniper rifles come with the 1 point you need (bi-pods or shock pads or whatever).
Sniper rifles, like many weapons beyond a pistol or SMG are weapons of opportunity. Sure, you won't use them every time but man, better have it and not need it than need it and not have it. We solved several problems in game with the judicious application of sniper fire, either from a flying drone or well place meat sniper.
Bonus points because you just look cool carrying one.

[Shortstraw]

Considering what a SWAT marksman might have to shoot at in shadowrun (just look at some of the character builds people have posted here) it would not surprise me if the Barret was on the small side of their arsenal with things like long barrel assault cannons or Ares Heavy MP lasers being common.

[Faraday]

One of my favorite weapons is probably the Mannlicher from Arsenal. With 8P/-1 AP and adding on a cheap mod for making it semiautomatic, you get a damage output comparable to an assault rifle firing short narrow bursts with a less glaringly dangerous weapon. You get double the range out of it AND have no need for further recoil compensation (shockpad comes standard).

If you're using a real sniper rifle (the Ares Desert Strike is my favorite for this category), you get even better distance and a nice damage bump. You cross into highly illegal weapons territory, but with a base damage of 9P/-4 AP when using ex-explosive rounds (you might as well since semi-autos are cheap to feed) you're almost hitting assault cannon damage. Two shots from this weapon will deal damage rivaling an assualt rifle firing narrow bursts as fast as it can with regular ammo. (Desert strike does 20P/8AP and costs 20 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to fire vs a Ares Alpha which does 22P/-4AP and costs 18 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to fire) This is without significant recoil, and silencers are an option with the weapon being semi-automatic. With the high base damage, you also become a lot scarier for spirits and vehicles.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Battle Rifle would be more like an M-14 than a Barrett.

True... But most Snipers still use a Hunting Rifle modified to their specifications. *shrug*
In game, I prefer the HK-PSG.