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> Writing fan supplements, by fan demand
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Fatum
post Aug 12 2012, 08:10 AM
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So, as the poll above implies, I have a few half-baked design stubs for fan supplements. Would you be interested in any?
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HeckfyEx
post Aug 12 2012, 09:52 AM
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Gunfu without the Gay part. Military training. Police schools. Quantico. Different shooting stances maybe.
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Shortstraw
post Aug 12 2012, 09:54 AM
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Went with Day Job because the game needs more to do in down time.
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The Wrestling Tr...
post Aug 12 2012, 10:42 AM
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I'm all for additional security and mines. Using monofilament wire and grenade tripwires as traps is getting old (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
My secondary choice would be Day Jobs and everyday stuff, because downtime needs some more flavour (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Edit: I would also love some fanfiction about the Chernobyl incident in the shadowrun universe and maybe a campaign?
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Makki
post Aug 12 2012, 10:47 AM
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the last thing we need is more combat stuff. Voted for Jobs.
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Neko Asakami
post Aug 12 2012, 02:49 PM
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I personally would love to see more setting books. Runner Havens, Corporate Enclaves, and Feral Cities are three of my favorite books. Specifically, what I'd like to see is an updated NAN sourcebook, and a book on the Tirs.
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Fatum
post Aug 12 2012, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE (Neko Asakami @ Aug 12 2012, 05:49 PM) *
I personally would love to see more setting books. Runner Havens, Corporate Enclaves, and Feral Cities are three of my favorite books. Specifically, what I'd like to see is an updated NAN sourcebook, and a book on the Tirs.
I'd be happy to oblige, but I don't know the fluff of the affected areas good enough I'm afraid. I'm writing the alt.War piece on Russia and Awakened Yakut, but that one's easy because so far they haven't been mentioned in the books all too much, unlike the NAN.
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CanRay
post Aug 12 2012, 11:41 PM
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Jobs. I want to know what kind of drek I have to deal with if I'm pulling a shift at the Stuffer Shack or McHugh's.

EDIT: Oh $Deity! No, those wouldn't be my jobs, my job would be: "Hello, thank you for calling MicroDeck Tech Support, how can I help you? ... ... ... Have you tried turning the CommLink off-and-on again?"
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Fatum
post Aug 13 2012, 12:06 AM
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Apropos of Jobs: my initial plan had been just writing up a huge table of available professions, and then add a few ways to modify them, but as I was writing those, I noticed that pretty much any job in the table can be described with just the qualities: for example, a bodyguard's work is pretty much that of a bouncer, plus belonging to a corporation, plus a right to bear firearms, plus higher risk, minus the chance to get contacts out of the job.
So right now my draft mostly includes the building pieces to construct the job with, and then a few example professions.
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CanRay
post Aug 13 2012, 01:27 AM
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I had a member in my group who wanted to make a Nartaki Technomancer that was a Cab Driver and a Tech Support Agent... At the same time.
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Udoshi
post Aug 13 2012, 02:15 AM
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I'd personally like to see Day Jobs, Missiles and Gun-Fu.

Day jobs: Seriously everything, there's a lot of room to expand here.
Rockets: Not a huge section or entire book, but some rules a-la war!'s grenade expansions that make the things actually useful. Specifically: Some more iron-clad in the rules Vehicle Sensor or Missile Sensor, Whichever Is Greater, airburst links as a weapon mod(fuck accessories being the only source of it) and/or software.
Gun-Fu. I'd like to see the martial art's system expanded upon to include fighting styles and combat training that isn't purely beat-em-up facepunch. Its status as a 'skill expansion that isn't quite a quality' has plenty of room to include things like athletic discipline, military training(how bout a maneuver for underbarrel weapons, so laser targeters are actually useful for someone with automatics?), or even Archery. Since its basically a 'Skill Plus', I'd really like some expansion into the quality costs - perhaps something akin to Surge qualities - so that it eats less into 'real quality' limits.
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Fatum
post Aug 13 2012, 03:01 AM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 05:15 AM) *
Rockets: Not a huge section or entire book, but some rules a-la war!'s grenade expansions that make the things actually useful. Specifically: Some more iron-clad in the rules Vehicle Sensor or Missile Sensor, Whichever Is Greater, airburst links as a weapon mod(fuck accessories being the only source of it) and/or software.
None of these I intend to make huge, frankly ; it's going to be something more akin to Cyborgs Unveiled I've made already, that is, a few pages of extra rules, maybe a few suggested ways to modify them, and then extra items/maneuvers/what have you.
Specifically what I have in mind for missiles is a way to design them a bit more flexibly, picking first the class, then the propulsion, then the homing systems, and then the warhead. Giving a few options like directed blasts for warheads or different kinds of sensors for the homing systems will hopefully give you a nice design framework to play with, receiving useful missile types at the end.

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 05:15 AM) *
Gun-Fu. I'd like to see the martial art's system expanded upon to include fighting styles and combat training that isn't purely beat-em-up facepunch. Its status as a 'skill expansion that isn't quite a quality' has plenty of room to include things like athletic discipline, military training(how bout a maneuver for underbarrel weapons, so laser targeters are actually useful for someone with automatics?), or even Archery. Since its basically a 'Skill Plus', I'd really like some expansion into the quality costs - perhaps something akin to Surge qualities - so that it eats less into 'real quality' limits.
What I have in mind for gun-fu is for starters what one of my players, Heckfy[Ex], has suggested. Currently there is only a single Martial Art, Krav Maga, that gives you useful abilities for gun wielders, namely making Ready Weapon and Take Aim free actions. Since that art is neither a secret nor a magical one, I just fail to see any reason for others not to pick up the techniques used. So the basic idea is having a few (military) martial arts with those, maybe bonuses for implant combat, maybe things similar to Quick Draw that allow you to incorporate a Free Action into a Single Action with a simple test, like Quick Reload or Quick Change Mode. Then we've been discussing maneuvers for gun wielders like double tap and fanning the hammer, but I have certain doubts about it.

Could you please elaborate on your ideas? What do you mean by athletic discipline? How can we make laser targeters more useful?
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Udoshi
post Aug 13 2012, 04:14 AM
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Lets see. It may take me a bit to find more notes. Off the top of my head....

First: Laser DESIGNATORS - the target spotters. I was thinking of a Maneuver that let you use the basic gun skill for any weapon addons that are slapped onto it.
So an assault rifle with a missile-guiding laser on top cuts down on Exotic Weapon Dumbness. It makes Underbarrel Shotguns/grenade launchers more useful, too.

As far as actual SHOOTING style bonuses?
A free action per pass that can only be used for Changed Linked Device Mode is worth it - modern military training should emphasize making full use of Smartlinks and their ability to control basically all gun settings.
A free point of RC on SA mode for the pistoleers would be worth it - removing the need for personalized grips through lots of experience.
Auto-passing quickdraw tests, or reducing the threshold to 1 seems like a good style bonus - natural combo with the iajutsu maneuver.
Ready Weapon and Take Aim are no-brainers.
a Free Zoom action for snipers would be nice - not take aim, just zoom.
how bout a style bonus for reducing a called shot penalty by 1? You still need to burn an action to use it.
Reduced range penalties by 1(not entire range steps) could be good.

If you want to get into more advanced rules, bonuses that enhance Leadership things from War - i was breezing over Coordination earlier - or enhance tacnets/reduce entrance penalties. Some sort of teamwork bonuses might be appropriate for more military styles.

A professional athlete "style" might be interesting. Dice pool bonuses on Physical tests, fatigue reductions, maybe an extra box of stun. perhaps Swimming/running/gymnastics dice boosts to keep it competitive.

I'd like to see an Archery Style: Auto-passing quick-draw tests, reducing range steps, maybe a special twin-arrow/miniburst mode if you really wanna be william tell.
I'd like to see a Jab or Lightning Strike maneuver that lets you melee as a Simple Action, but only once per pass. Makes melee a little bit more competitive through multitasking without doubling its firepower.
I'd like to see a Maneuver(flexible training?) that lets you change your specialties around without paying karma to overwrite them. Make the test to learn it again, and spend some time to affect the change, but giving a weapon specialist time to change their weapon preferences out during downtime isn't OP.
I'd like to see a maneuver for Suppressive Fire(hold down the trigger?) - there's a current bug in the rules that means someone with 1 pass can supress an entire combat turn, while someone with multiple passes has to waste more actions and bullets for the same effect. A maneuver that says 'oh no, skip me, i'm still suppressing' might be interesting, but maybe not worth the points.
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Udoshi
post Aug 13 2012, 04:18 AM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 12 2012, 09:14 PM) *
A free action per pass that can only be used for Changed Linked Device Mode is worth it - modern military training should emphasize making full use of Smartlinks and their ability to control basically all gun settings.


Found my notes. Interestingly, it was in the E-Kung Fu file.
New Maneuver: Hotkey: once per action phase/init pass, you may Change Linked Device Mode without using an action

Basically, DNI/smartlinks are -supposed- to be quick and fast, but free actions....really aren't. This one lets you twiddle your weapons settings, like the choke or swapping to an underbarrel grenade launcher freely - and its more balanced than handing out another free action per pass.

Or possibly, "when using a smartlinked smartgun, changed linked device mode on that device doesn't take an action'.
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HeckfyEx
post Aug 13 2012, 07:01 AM
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How about extending limit on a maximum allowed Take Aim actions? Doubling effect of Take Aim? Ability to Zoom with regular take aim. Benefits for ranged "martial arts" that give you boni for non shooting skills, like Perception, or Disguise and whatnot.
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Blade
post Aug 13 2012, 08:22 AM
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Jobs, because there are many unanswered questions (or questions with contradicting/unclear answers) such as:
- Drones vs. Metahumans: Is there still a janitor if drones can do all the cleaning by themselves?
- Skillsofts in the workforce
- Salary: Corps could probably have actual slaves (and probably do in some cases/places) but they also need customers to sell their products to. How do they handle this?
- Jobs that have disappeared and new jobs that have appeared.

I've covered some of these topics (and a few more) in Style Over Substance (see link in sig) but I'd like to see other's take on the subject.
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Fatum
post Aug 13 2012, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (Blade @ Aug 13 2012, 11:22 AM) *
Jobs, because there are many unanswered questions (or questions with contradicting/unclear answers) such as:
[many smart words]
I've covered some of these topics (and a few more) in Style Over Substance (see link in sig) but I'd like to see other's take on the subject.
We can think over those together, if you wish, because my brain is now in numbers-crunching mode. That is, what I have in mind now is a system that lets you turn an idea like "my runner is a pizza delivery boy by day" or "my runner is secretly a high-ranking megacorp Arcana researcher after his dose of adrenalin" or "my runner spends the time between the runs deep-diving for the Japanese govt" into a series of in-game consequences, stats, figures, and plot hooks.
Actually, I am perfectly fine with having anyone capable of bearing my neurotic perfectionism join the work on those supplements (and it'd be totally mint if there'd be someone who could make those damn resulting pdfs for me, Cyborgs Unveiled is indication enough of how much I suck at it imo).
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bannockburn
post Aug 13 2012, 02:30 PM
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Actually, I found the cyborgs pdf very good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
But an artist is his own worst critic, I guess ^^

I vote for jobs, too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Fatum
post Aug 13 2012, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
First: Laser DESIGNATORS - the target spotters. I was thinking of a Maneuver that let you use the basic gun skill for any weapon addons that are slapped onto it.
So an assault rifle with a missile-guiding laser on top cuts down on Exotic Weapon Dumbness. It makes Underbarrel Shotguns/grenade launchers more useful, too.
That one used to be a houserule at our table for a while, so I'm all for it.

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
A free action per pass that can only be used for Changed Linked Device Mode is worth it - modern military training should emphasize making full use of Smartlinks and their ability to control basically all gun settings.
New Maneuver: Hotkey: once per action phase/init pass, you may Change Linked Device Mode without using an action
Frankly speaking, I must say I like the Quick Draw mechanic more - make a test, if you succeed, you do that as a part of your action (as a part of the attack, in this case). If not, spend the action. This way we get to have mechanical effects for Smart Pouch System Ammo Pouches (for Quick Reload), for example. Mechanical effects for items are good :3
But while for Quick Reload the test is pretty obvious (Agility+Firearm skill), I am not so sure about Quick Change Mode, Logic+Firearm skill? Agility+Computer?

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
A free point of RC on SA mode for the pistoleers would be worth it - removing the need for personalized grips through lots of experience.
Do you think it would? Minding the very low prices of personalized grips, unless the runners change guns regularly, it's not like they're exchanging a few BP for something all that valuable...
For pistols I was thinking more along the lines of +1DV for double tap (while still counting as a single SA attack), or fanning the hammer, allowing you to fire short (or long, hell) burst with a (modified) revolver.

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
Auto-passing quickdraw tests, or reducing the threshold to 1 seems like a good style bonus - natural combo with the iajutsu maneuver.
Reducing the quick-draw threshold by 1 seems like a nice option for a martial art knowledge level.

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
Ready Weapon and Take Aim are no-brainers.
a Free Zoom action for snipers would be nice - not take aim, just zoom.
how bout a style bonus for reducing a called shot penalty by 1? You still need to burn an action to use it.
All ideas I like and was already considering.

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
Reduced range penalties by 1(not entire range steps) could be good.
Having my doubts about this one, though - most runners shoot at the distances not giving them penalties, and the ones that do not use zoom....

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
If you want to get into more advanced rules, bonuses that enhance Leadership things from War - i was breezing over Coordination earlier - or enhance tacnets/reduce entrance penalties.
I will think those over - I like the idea behind the Leadership rules in War!, but the bonuses there do seem a bit weak to me.

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
Some sort of teamwork bonuses might be appropriate for more military styles.
Do you mean that like "higher bonuses for melee gang-up" or like Deathwatch style team maneuvers a-la "one character shoots the target, and by herding it the desired way denies it dodge bonuses from the attacks of the rest of the team"?
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Fatum
post Aug 13 2012, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
A professional athlete "style" might be interesting. Dice pool bonuses on Physical tests, fatigue reductions, maybe an extra box of stun. perhaps Swimming/running/gymnastics dice boosts to keep it competitive.
Doesn't seem fairly balanced compared to the costs of raising skills...

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
I'd like to see an Archery Style: Auto-passing quick-draw tests, reducing range steps, maybe a special twin-arrow/miniburst mode if you really wanna be william tell.
Can you even quick draw bows? I wouldn't say they're pistol-sized.
Twin-arrow mode does stink of That Other Game a bit, but it is interesting. And we can take some actual archer arts, like Yabusame, to give appropriate bonuses.

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
I'd like to see a Jab or Lightning Strike maneuver that lets you melee as a Simple Action, but only once per pass. Makes melee a little bit more competitive through multitasking without doubling its firepower.
I'd say that calls for reduced damage and making it the only attack action per turn, otherwise we'll get a lot of melee+firearms.

QUOTE (Udoshi @ Aug 13 2012, 07:14 AM) *
I'd like to see a Maneuver(flexible training?) that lets you change your specialties around without paying karma to overwrite them. Make the test to learn it again, and spend some time to affect the change, but giving a weapon specialist time to change their weapon preferences out during downtime isn't OP.
I'd like to see a maneuver for Suppressive Fire(hold down the trigger?) - there's a current bug in the rules that means someone with 1 pass can supress an entire combat turn, while someone with multiple passes has to waste more actions and bullets for the same effect. A maneuver that says 'oh no, skip me, i'm still suppressing' might be interesting, but maybe not worth the points.
Those two I am not really comfortable with. Meddling with IP system and Karma system is rarely a good idea, because they're pretty much fragged up as it is. I don't think we're making those better this way.
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Fatum
post Aug 13 2012, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE (bannockburn @ Aug 13 2012, 05:30 PM) *
Actually, I found the cyborgs pdf very good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
But an artist is his own worst critic, I guess ^^

I vote for jobs, too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Just look at those tables, or the pages with a lot of text. Those line breaks, those random margins, my god.
It came out better than I expected, though; I am very glad you liked it.
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Tias
post Aug 13 2012, 03:27 PM
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I'm still up for helping with Yakut where I can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I would probably be most interested in an overhaul of the vehicle system.
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Stahlseele
post Aug 13 2012, 03:33 PM
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i voted for alt.war . .
because there's a good foundation around somewhere already which could probably be used to some extent.

otherwise:

Shadowrun: IIN SPAACEE! ,;,
--------------------------------------
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Fatum
post Aug 13 2012, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 13 2012, 06:33 PM) *
Shadowrun: IIN SPAACEE! ,;,
--------------------------------------
Don't Target:Wastelands and Hazard Pay cover those pretty excessively already?
As for alt.War, I'm feeling that my draft is getting out of hand as I try to fit everything I want to see in SR in it, so I'm trying to cannibalize pieces of it into smaller supplements.
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Udoshi
post Aug 13 2012, 04:45 PM
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QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 13 2012, 07:54 AM) *
Can you even quick draw bows? I wouldn't say they're pistol-sized.
Twin-arrow mode does stink of That Other Game a bit, but it is interesting. And we can take some actual archer arts, like Yabusame, to give appropriate bonuses.


With the iajutsu maneuver? Sure. Its more useful for quick-drawing the ARROWS, though, as it gets around the Ready Weapon limitation and lets you fire twice.

QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 13 2012, 07:54 AM) *
I'd say that calls for reduced damage and making it the only attack action per turn, otherwise we'll get a lot of melee+firearms.

I don't think so. Melee + Firearm is the POINT - because melee is usually a lot weaker than guns. Usually its way better to fire twice instead of punch once. Or even twice.

QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 13 2012, 07:54 AM) *
Doesn't seem fairly balanced compared to the costs of raising skills...

Look at all the other style bonuses. for 5BP, you basically get a +1 skill dice or other unique advantage. Kung Fu's +1 all Dodge is pretty amazing. All the +1DV from martial arts is two equivalent strength, which is 20 points.
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