Help with a new adept ability Options

[Jareth Valar]

This one has been brewing too long on the back burner. Really started to bubble over after watching the preview of Man with the Iron Fists. Not everything there, but when Lucy Liu's character 'Madame Blossom' throws her fan and it returns to her hand. THAT'S one I've been meaning to do for a while now. Blade, Madame Blossom, Krull (even though that was a power of the Glaive itself), etc. I can't recall anything even remotely resembling that ability. Missile Mastery won't work, so a new ability it shall be.

So, a simple action to catch said weapon I was thinking. Should it be a general power or a linked to a specific weapon?

Here's a (very) rough draft.

Boomerang Throw
Cost: .5

The adept focuses his will through his weapon, making it an extension of himself. After being thrown, the weapon "instinctively" returns to it's source.

Effect:The adept may make a thrown attack with a weapon as normal (a simple action), and on his next available simple action make an Agility+Intuition (2) test to "catch" the returning weapon. If the test is failed, the weapon scatters as a grenade. On a critical Glitch, he has injured himself with his own weapon.


Any help would be appreciated.

[lorechaser]

This one has been brewing too long on the back burner. Really started to bubble over after watching the preview of Man with the Iron Fists. Not everything there, but when Lucy Liu's character 'Madame Blossom' throws her fan and it returns to her hand. THAT'S one I've been meaning to do for a while now. Blade, Madame Blossom, Krull (even though that was a power of the Glaive itself), etc. I can't recall anything even remotely resembling that ability. Missile Mastery won't work, so a new ability it shall be.

So, a simple action to catch said weapon I was thinking. Should it be a general power or a linked to a specific weapon?

Here's a (very) rough draft.

Boomerang Throw
Cost: .5

The adept focuses his will through his weapon, making it an extension of himself. After being thrown, the weapon "instinctively" returns to it's source.

Effect:The adept may make a thrown attack with a weapon as normal (a simple action), and on his next available simple action make an Agility+Intuition (2) test to "catch" the returning weapon. If the test is failed, the weapon scatters as a grenade. On a critical Glitch, he has injured himself with his own weapon.


Any help would be appreciated.

On the one hand, I don't think the Agi+Int test is even required, unless there's a distraction. You're spending half a power point to basically get a cool factor.

That being said, you can do some amazingly disturbing things with a throwing adept. This would basically let you use a weapon focus as part of that. You're still giving up a simple action each pass, though, which *seems* balanced to me. Because honestly, I've made a throwing adept who used a bag of marshmellows as his "ammo" source, and this is far cooler than that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Marwynn]

I'd make it Agility + Weapon Skill (2) instead of Intuition. But I agree, I don't think the test is needed. You may want to define the kind of weapons that are thrown, however.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I don't like it. Weapon impacts the body and penetrates to cause damage (say a thrown knife). How, exactly is it supposed to return when it no longer has any inertia, and no way to generate any to follow a return path to the thrower? Breaks my suspension of disbelief just a little too much for my taste.

[Critias]

I think a more elegant solution might be to buy Distance Strike, and slap on a Geas for "only when you've got something to throw," and just let the magic of the abstract system, countered by cool/dramatic descriptions, handle things from there.

[BishopMcQ]

If you work with your GM maybe have it work for slashing and bludgeoning type weapons. The throwing knife, as Tymeaus suggested, is a bit weird to stab and return but a chakrum, frisbee, or a bouncy ball could do it.

Throwing adept with bouncy balls from the quarter vending machines...I'm going to have to think more about that.

[lorechaser]

I don't like it. Weapon impacts the body and penetrates to cause damage (say a thrown knife). How, exactly is it supposed to return when it no longer has any inertia, and no way to generate any to follow a return path to the thrower? Breaks my suspension of disbelief just a little too much for my taste.

I hate to sound like a jerk, but - Magic. I mean, we accept that an adept can throw a marshmellow hard enough to knock someone on their ass, do lethal damage, and have them catch on fire. I'm not sure how this is anywhere that range of bizarre, except that it is a more mundane use.

But think of Mjolnir, or Kull. It's not some sort of fancy trick - it's a magical connection. Thor can summon Mjolnir to his hand, the Kull glaive can be guided. It's that same idea.

[Marwynn]

To further complicate things:

1) Mundane melee weapons require a test to be caught, potential for glitches
2) A thrown Weapon Focus does not require any test

[BishopMcQ]

If you want to step away from weapon foci, the power may require the use of an Attuned item. Creates more use for the metamagic and don't have to worry about a focus deactivating because you let go of it.

[Dakka Dakka]

I hate to sound like a jerk, but - Magic. I mean, we accept that an adept can throw a marshmellow hard enough to knock someone on their ass, do lethal damage, and have them catch on fire. I'm not sure how this is anywhere that range of bizarre, except that it is a more mundane use.

The problem is the magic is focused on the thrown object, not on the thrower. Adepts, as opposed to magicians, are supposed to only be able to focus their magic inward i.e. onto themselves. I'd have no problem with a spell that returns projectiles, but as an adept power it does not fit.

[Jareth Valar]

I hate to sound like a jerk, but - Magic. I mean, we accept that an adept can throw a marshmellow hard enough to knock someone on their ass, do lethal damage, and have them catch on fire. I'm not sure how this is anywhere that range of bizarre, except that it is a more mundane use.

But think of Mjolnir, or Kull. It's not some sort of fancy trick - it's a magical connection. Thor can summon Mjolnir to his hand, the Kull glaive can be guided. It's that same idea.

True. Our throwing adept always carried marbles, but that's pretty much what I was getting at. Though I think it would be the ability to just call your weapon would be cool (like both of your references), that would probably be a separate ability or even a spell.

As for using an attuned item, I was considering that. My only thought with that is it would be requiring a metamagic for a power. Just seems odd.

While I see your point TJ, it's just as easy to say if certain weapons inflict damage, they can't return.

So, general thought is loose the roll to catch the weapon?

[Jareth Valar]

The problem is the magic is focused on the thrown object, not on the thrower. Adepts, as opposed to magicians, are supposed to only be able to focus their magic inward i.e. onto themselves. I'd have no problem with a spell that returns projectiles, but as an adept power it does not fit.

That was just a quick description to have something (I'm kind of OCD like that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). It could be super mathematics/geometry/ballistic calculation to be able to still do damage with a weapon and have it ricochet/bounce back to my hand ala Captain America, Xena, etc.

And not all powers focus exclusively internally. Distance Strike comes to mind. Pushing your magic away from your body to a certain distance to do damage. This pushes magic away from your body but just to bring something back that just left the previous action. To me, not too different IMHO.

[Dakka Dakka]

That was just a quick description to have something (I'm kind of OCD like that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). It could be super mathematics/geometry/ballistic calculation to be able to still do damage with a weapon and have it ricochet/bounce back to my hand ala Captain America, Xena, etc.

This does not work conceptionally. To damage a target you want to transfer as much energy from the projectile to the target as posssible. That energy then is no longer with the projectile to use for a return. No if you reduced 1 for every 1,2,3 m the projectile has to travel back, it would sound a lot more like precision throwing and less like telekinesis.

And not all powers focus exclusively internally. Distance Strike comes to mind. Pushing your magic away from your body to a certain distance to do damage. This pushes magic away from your body but just to bring something back that just left the previous action. To me, not too different IMHO.

They should only use magic internally and you can explain distance strike with internalized magic. Some martial artist IRL can transfer enough energy from their body through the air to have an effect on a target, granted the distances are nowhere near the MAG m of Distance strike but then again our world has not awakened yet. If something is possible without magic it should also be possible only with inwardly focused magic (i.e. augmenting the movement of the body to move air)

[Critias]

Some martial artist IRL can transfer enough energy from their body through the air to have an effect on a target...

No they can't. Or, at least, they can't (conveniently enough) in a way that's replicable, recorded, or reliable. They claim to, sure, but when the time comes to actually demonstrate it in a way more credibly than a stage magician, I've yet to see or hear of one that can.

[Jareth Valar]

This does not work conceptionally. To damage a target you want to transfer as much energy from the projectile to the target as posssible. That energy then is no longer with the projectile to use for a return. No if you reduced 1 for every 1,2,3 m the projectile has to travel back, it would sound a lot more like precision throwing and less like telekinesis.

Valid point, my only point was like Critias mentioned about Distance Strike, it's the magic of an abstract system. Describe it how you want, the effect is the same. If what you are looking for is a better representation of a slightly 'to the left of reality', then that level of 'real science' is perfect. Pick your flavor.

To me, I like a blend of gritty and fantastic. A world where immortal elves teleport (worlds without end), Dragons rule an intercontinental, extraterritorial capitalistic super-power, entire battalions of soldiers being kept invisible (Tir Tairngire/California), etc; the concept of a person being able to boomerang a weapon back to himself is a very small suspension of disbelief, to me anyway.

They should only use magic internally and you can explain distance strike with internalized magic. Some martial artist IRL can transfer enough energy from their body through the air to have an effect on a target, granted the distances are nowhere near the MAG m of Distance strike but then again our world has not awakened yet. If something is possible without magic it should also be possible only with inwardly focused magic (i.e. augmenting the movement of the body to move air)

A lot of my thoughts for adept abilities follow a long history of watching Wuxia and Wuxia styled movies (Kung Fu Theater) on and off over the past years. This was one I remember seeing in several, IIRC. But I see your point...from a certain point of view. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Irion]

No they can't. Or, at least, they can't (conveniently enough) in a way that's replicable, recorded, or reliable. They claim to, sure, but when the time comes to actually demonstrate it in a way more credibly than a stage magician, I've yet to see or hear of one that can.

But it makes for hilerious experiments. With other martial artist beating the crap out of them...


The problem with explaining everything within bounderies of strict general rules is simple. You either have a very limited array of things you can do or the things you can do can be abused in a very drastic way if you use them outside their foreseen application.

[The Jopp]

In order to be a GOOD throwing adept you need to pay a lot of points for it.

1. Missile Mastery
2. Power Throw
3. Quick Draw
4. Missile Parry
5. Improved initiative.

Now, adding a "return" power of a thrown object is not unbalanced at all - especially if we tweak it.

Boomerang
Cost: 0,5
Prerequisite: Missile Parry
Whenever the adept misses with a thrown object it will return to him. Make a Missile Parry test, if the test is failed the adept is hit by his own weapon at base damage of weapon. Use the opponents dodge successes or characters own skill as base TN.

Hint: Dont miss with a grenade...

If all he wants is to save "ammo" cost of throwing knives at 20Y a pop then go for it. If he wants dikoted chainsaws flying he better hope he dont miss. The same goes for using missile mastery when throwing people...

Ok, now I need to create my Chainsaw juggling troll throwing adept.

[Jareth Valar]

Boomerang
Cost: 0,5
Prerequisite: Missile Parry
Whenever the adept misses with a thrown object it will return to him. Make a Missile Parry test, if the test is failed the adept is hit by his own weapon at base damage of weapon. Use the opponents dodge successes or characters own skill as base TN.

Hint: Dont miss with a grenade...

If all he wants is to save "ammo" cost of throwing knives at 20Y a pop then go for it. If he wants dikoted chainsaws flying he better hope he dont miss. The same goes for using missile mastery when throwing people...

Not a bad tweek. However, it doesn't capture the same feel I was going for. Blade circling the room with his thrown blade, Madame Blossom doing the same with her fan, all returning to their hands after actually hitting multiple opponents.

That brings up another issue. This would allow the splitting of dice for multiple opponents. Maybe no more than a number of opponents than 1/3 magic?

[Xenefungus]

In order to be a GOOD throwing adept you need to pay a lot of points for it.


4. Missile Parry

You don't need Missile Parry, that's just a defensive power. It doesn't improve your throwing at all. The best it can do is grant you some ammo after someone attacked you, which makes it not really worth it.

The thought of a power to split the dicepool to enable the weapon to "bounce" to other enemies to inflict damage is something i like. You could incorporate the original idea of a returning weapon by ruling that returning it to yourself is just another "target" to be hit (and thus requires a further split of the dicepool).

[The Jopp]

You don't need Missile Parry, that's just a defensive power. It doesn't improve your throwing at all. The best it can do is grant you some ammo after someone attacked you, which makes it not really worth it.

The thought of a power to split the dicepool to enable the weapon to "bounce" to other enemies to inflict damage is something i like. You could incorporate the original idea of a returning weapon by ruling that returning it to yourself is just another "target" to be hit (and thus requires a further split of the dicepool).

In this case I added it because it is a fitting prerequisite for the "boomerang" ability.

Hmm...bouncing ability...ok, I'll bite.

Ricochet
Cost: 0,25 point per level
Prerequisite: Missile Master

True masters of missile mastery have the ability to calculate amazing feats of throwing and can manage to throw aobjects around corners by bouncing things of the walls.

Each level of the Ricochet power allows the adept to hit an additional target after the first. Each target after the first lower the Dicepool by 1 and reduces the damage of the attack by 1 for each target after the first.

Attacking 3 targets would be a -3D6 dicepool with standard damage on the first target, -1 damage on no 2 and -2 on no 3 and so on.

This ability also allows for the attacker to hit targets hidden around corner with the full negative impact of not being able to see the attacker. Also, reduce damage by 1 and -1D6 to dicepool due to the fact that you have to bounce the shot at least once which counts as a target.

[Xenefungus]

Why not use the normal rules for attacking more than one enemy with one one roll, splitting attack dice as usual? Your suggestion is kind of OP, -3 dice to essentially deal three times the damage, no no.

[FuelDrop]

I'm kind of seeing a Captain America style shield-throwing adept now.

[Shemhazai]

It doesn't seem possible, but I'm sure that the Baterang could do this, and I've done it many times in the Legend of Zelda, so it can definitely work.

How about make it an adept skill that only works with some exotic thrown weapons, so you would also need to acquire the exotic weapon skill for each different weapon you wanted to throw like this?

[Jareth Valar]

Ricochet
Cost: 0,25 point per level
Prerequisite: Missile Master

True masters of missile mastery have the ability to calculate amazing feats of throwing and can manage to throw aobjects around corners by bouncing things of the walls.

Each level of the Ricochet power allows the adept to hit an additional target after the first. Each target after the first lower the Dicepool by 1 and reduces the damage of the attack by 1 for each target after the first.

Attacking 3 targets would be a -3D6 dicepool with standard damage on the first target, -1 damage on no 2 and -2 on no 3 and so on.

This ability also allows for the attacker to hit targets hidden around corner with the full negative impact of not being able to see the attacker. Also, reduce damage by 1 and -1D6 to dicepool due to the fact that you have to bounce the shot at least once which counts as a target.

Nice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Though might it be a bit much?

Why not just have a .25 or .5 PP power that just allows you to split your normal die pool among targets with one projectile. Maybe even limit it to say they can be mo farther apart than 1/2 of the throwers magic in meters?

Just a couple of thoughts before bed.

[The Jopp]

Why not use the normal rules for attacking more than one enemy with one one roll, splitting attack dice as usual? Your suggestion is kind of OP, -3 dice to essentially deal three times the damage, no no.

Hmm...yes, you are absolutely right. But with a small change
I cant for the life of me remember how you played out a scenario with multiple targets.
Not sure which idea is best.

Idea 1
Each level of power allows the adept to hit an additional target - Max Lvl 4 for a maximum of 1+4 targets.
Each level also reduces the -2D6 per additional target by 1D6.
At lvl 4 you ignore the -2D6 for up to 3 targets.

1st: -0D6
2nd: -0D6
3rd: -2D6
4th: -4D6
5th: -6D6

Idea 2
Each level of power allows the adept to hit an additional target - Max Lvl 4 for a maximum of 1+4 targets.
Each level allows tou to split you pool by that amount for multiple targets.
At lvl 4 you can split the pool for a total of 5 targets (1+4).
There are no modifiers for multiple targets.
Not recommended to combine this with ambidexterity unless you want 1D6 to all attacks or so.