This one has been brewing too long on the back burner. Really started to bubble over after watching the preview of Man with the Iron Fists. Not everything there, but when Lucy Liu's character 'Madame Blossom' throws her fan and it returns to her hand. THAT'S one I've been meaning to do for a while now. Blade, Madame Blossom, Krull (even though that was a power of the Glaive itself), etc. I can't recall anything even remotely resembling that ability. Missile Mastery won't work, so a new ability it shall be.

So, a simple action to catch said weapon I was thinking. Should it be a general power or a linked to a specific weapon?

Here's a (very) rough draft.

Boomerang Throw
Cost: .5

The adept focuses his will through his weapon, making it an extension of himself. After being thrown, the weapon "instinctively" returns to it's source.

Effect:The adept may make a thrown attack with a weapon as normal (a simple action), and on his next available simple action make an Agility+Intuition (2) test to "catch" the returning weapon. If the test is failed, the weapon scatters as a grenade. On a critical Glitch, he has injured himself with his own weapon.


Any help would be appreciated.

On the one hand, I don't think the Agi+Int test is even required, unless there's a distraction. You're spending half a power point to basically get a cool factor.

That being said, you can do some amazingly disturbing things with a throwing adept. This would basically let you use a weapon focus as part of that. You're still giving up a simple action each pass, though, which *seems* balanced to me. Because honestly, I've made a throwing adept who used a bag of marshmellows as his "ammo" source, and this is far cooler than that.

I'd make it Agility + Weapon Skill (2) instead of Intuition. But I agree, I don't think the test is needed. You may want to define the kind of weapons that are thrown, however.

I don't like it. Weapon impacts the body and penetrates to cause damage (say a thrown knife). How, exactly is it supposed to return when it no longer has any inertia, and no way to generate any to follow a return path to the thrower? Breaks my suspension of disbelief just a little too much for my taste.

I think a more elegant solution might be to buy Distance Strike, and slap on a Geas for "only when you've got something to throw," and just let the magic of the abstract system, countered by cool/dramatic descriptions, handle things from there.

If you work with your GM maybe have it work for slashing and bludgeoning type weapons. The throwing knife, as Tymeaus suggested, is a bit weird to stab and return but a chakrum, frisbee, or a bouncy ball could do it.

Throwing adept with bouncy balls from the quarter vending machines...I'm going to have to think more about that.

I hate to sound like a jerk, but - Magic. I mean, we accept that an adept can throw a marshmellow hard enough to knock someone on their ass, do lethal damage, and have them catch on fire. I'm not sure how this is anywhere that range of bizarre, except that it is a more mundane use.

But think of Mjolnir, or Kull. It's not some sort of fancy trick - it's a magical connection. Thor can summon Mjolnir to his hand, the Kull glaive can be guided. It's that same idea.

To further complicate things:

1) Mundane melee weapons require a test to be caught, potential for glitches
2) A thrown Weapon Focus does not require any test

If you want to step away from weapon foci, the power may require the use of an Attuned item. Creates more use for the metamagic and don't have to worry about a focus deactivating because you let go of it.

The problem is the magic is focused on the thrown object, not on the thrower. Adepts, as opposed to magicians, are supposed to only be able to focus their magic inward i.e. onto themselves. I'd have no problem with a spell that returns projectiles, but as an adept power it does not fit.

True. Our throwing adept always carried marbles, but that's pretty much what I was getting at. Though I think it would be the ability to just call your weapon would be cool (like both of your references), that would probably be a separate ability or even a spell.

As for using an attuned item, I was considering that. My only thought with that is it would be requiring a metamagic for a power. Just seems odd.

While I see your point TJ, it's just as easy to say if certain weapons inflict damage, they can't return.

So, general thought is loose the roll to catch the weapon?

That was just a quick description to have something (I'm kind of OCD like that ). It could be super mathematics/geometry/ballistic calculation to be able to still do damage with a weapon and have it ricochet/bounce back to my hand ala Captain America, Xena, etc.

And not all powers focus exclusively internally. Distance Strike comes to mind. Pushing your magic away from your body to a certain distance to do damage. This pushes magic away from your body but just to bring something back that just left the previous action. To me, not too different IMHO.

This does not work conceptionally. To damage a target you want to transfer as much energy from the projectile to the target as posssible. That energy then is no longer with the projectile to use for a return. No if you reduced 1 for every 1,2,3 m the projectile has to travel back, it would sound a lot more like precision throwing and less like telekinesis.

They should only use magic internally and you can explain distance strike with internalized magic. Some martial artist IRL can transfer enough energy from their body through the air to have an effect on a target, granted the distances are nowhere near the MAG m of Distance strike but then again our world has not awakened yet. If something is possible without magic it should also be possible only with inwardly focused magic (i.e. augmenting the movement of the body to move air)

No they can't. Or, at least, they can't (conveniently enough) in a way that's replicable, recorded, or reliable. They claim to, sure, but when the time comes to actually demonstrate it in a way more credibly than a stage magician, I've yet to see or hear of one that can.

Valid point, my only point was like Critias mentioned about Distance Strike, it's the magic of an abstract system. Describe it how you want, the effect is the same. If what you are looking for is a better representation of a slightly 'to the left of reality', then that level of 'real science' is perfect. Pick your flavor.

To me, I like a blend of gritty and fantastic. A world where immortal elves teleport (worlds without end), Dragons rule an intercontinental, extraterritorial capitalistic super-power, entire battalions of soldiers being kept invisible (Tir Tairngire/California), etc; the concept of a person being able to boomerang a weapon back to himself is a very small suspension of disbelief, to me anyway.



A lot of my thoughts for adept abilities follow a long history of watching Wuxia and Wuxia styled movies (Kung Fu Theater) on and off over the past years. This was one I remember seeing in several, IIRC. But I see your point...from a certain point of view.

But it makes for hilerious experiments. With other martial artist beating the crap out of them...


The problem with explaining everything within bounderies of strict general rules is simple. You either have a very limited array of things you can do or the things you can do can be abused in a very drastic way if you use them outside their foreseen application.

In order to be a GOOD throwing adept you need to pay a lot of points for it.

1. Missile Mastery
2. Power Throw
3. Quick Draw
4. Missile Parry
5. Improved initiative.

Now, adding a "return" power of a thrown object is not unbalanced at all - especially if we tweak it.

Boomerang
Cost: 0,5
Prerequisite: Missile Parry
Whenever the adept misses with a thrown object it will return to him. Make a Missile Parry test, if the test is failed the adept is hit by his own weapon at base damage of weapon. Use the opponents dodge successes or characters own skill as base TN.

Hint: Dont miss with a grenade...

If all he wants is to save "ammo" cost of throwing knives at 20Y a pop then go for it. If he wants dikoted chainsaws flying he better hope he dont miss. The same goes for using missile mastery when throwing people...

Ok, now I need to create my Chainsaw juggling troll throwing adept.

Not a bad tweek. However, it doesn't capture the same feel I was going for. Blade circling the room with his thrown blade, Madame Blossom doing the same with her fan, all returning to their hands after actually hitting multiple opponents.

That brings up another issue. This would allow the splitting of dice for multiple opponents. Maybe no more than a number of opponents than 1/3 magic?

You don't need Missile Parry, that's just a defensive power. It doesn't improve your throwing at all. The best it can do is grant you some ammo after someone attacked you, which makes it not really worth it.

The thought of a power to split the dicepool to enable the weapon to "bounce" to other enemies to inflict damage is something i like. You could incorporate the original idea of a returning weapon by ruling that returning it to yourself is just another "target" to be hit (and thus requires a further split of the dicepool).

In this case I added it because it is a fitting prerequisite for the "boomerang" ability.

Hmm...bouncing ability...ok, I'll bite.

Ricochet
Cost: 0,25 point per level
Prerequisite: Missile Master

True masters of missile mastery have the ability to calculate amazing feats of throwing and can manage to throw aobjects around corners by bouncing things of the walls.

Each level of the Ricochet power allows the adept to hit an additional target after the first. Each target after the first lower the Dicepool by 1 and reduces the damage of the attack by 1 for each target after the first.

Attacking 3 targets would be a -3D6 dicepool with standard damage on the first target, -1 damage on no 2 and -2 on no 3 and so on.

This ability also allows for the attacker to hit targets hidden around corner with the full negative impact of not being able to see the attacker. Also, reduce damage by 1 and -1D6 to dicepool due to the fact that you have to bounce the shot at least once which counts as a target.

Why not use the normal rules for attacking more than one enemy with one one roll, splitting attack dice as usual? Your suggestion is kind of OP, -3 dice to essentially deal three times the damage, no no.

I'm kind of seeing a Captain America style shield-throwing adept now.

It doesn't seem possible, but I'm sure that the Baterang could do this, and I've done it many times in the Legend of Zelda, so it can definitely work.

How about make it an adept skill that only works with some exotic thrown weapons, so you would also need to acquire the exotic weapon skill for each different weapon you wanted to throw like this?

Nice. Though might it be a bit much?

Why not just have a .25 or .5 PP power that just allows you to split your normal die pool among targets with one projectile. Maybe even limit it to say they can be mo farther apart than 1/2 of the throwers magic in meters?

Just a couple of thoughts before bed.

Hmm...yes, you are absolutely right. But with a small change
I cant for the life of me remember how you played out a scenario with multiple targets.
Not sure which idea is best.

Idea 1
Each level of power allows the adept to hit an additional target - Max Lvl 4 for a maximum of 1+4 targets.
Each level also reduces the -2D6 per additional target by 1D6.
At lvl 4 you ignore the -2D6 for up to 3 targets.

1st: -0D6
2nd: -0D6
3rd: -2D6
4th: -4D6
5th: -6D6

Idea 2
Each level of power allows the adept to hit an additional target - Max Lvl 4 for a maximum of 1+4 targets.
Each level allows tou to split you pool by that amount for multiple targets.
At lvl 4 you can split the pool for a total of 5 targets (1+4).
There are no modifiers for multiple targets.
Not recommended to combine this with ambidexterity unless you want 1D6 to all attacks or so.

Eh, yes, wrote that while you wrote it too...

I wouldn't limit distance though because you rarely reach heavy pistol extreme ranges - and if you do you have modifiers.

Not range, but the distance between targets.

OK, here's what I'm thinking, combining what I have originally posted and what has been presented by everyone here.

Boomerang Throw
Cost: .5
The adept may throw a weapon in such a way that it returns to his hands after being thrown. This 'catch' must be the simple action after the initial throw or the weapon scatters as a grenade. This means if he looses his next initiative pass for any reason be it from a martial arts maneuver, full dodge, etc. the weapon is not caught.

Ricochet Shot
Cost: .75
Prerequisite: Missile Mastery
This power allows the adept to attack multiple opponents with the same projectile. He may split is dice between opponents as per the normal rules for multiple opponents with only a -1 die penalty for each additional opponent. However, each opponent may be no farther away from the previous that (1/2)Magic in meters.

Example:
'Bullseye Blaine' is a thrown weapon adept with a Agility of 8, Magic of 6, Thrown Weapons of 6(8 ) and has Quick Draw, Missile Mastery, Boomerang Throw and Ricochet Shot. He is facing off with 4 gang members (3 bangers 1-2 meters apart and the "boss" about 4 meters behind them) blocking him from getting out of an alley. Not wanting to loose his last 2 daggers, he chooses to 'make a point' by displaying some skill.

He wins initiative and uses quick draw to throw one of his 2 remaining blades. He is attempting to hit as many as possible. Since the bangers are less than 3 meters apart (magic/2) they may be targeted, but the boss is out of ricochet reach. He splits his dice pool if 16: 5 dice for the first, 5 the second and 6 for the last. This leaves him with 5 dice, 4 dice (5-1 extra target), and 4 dice (2nd extra target). Not enough to kill or maim, but definitely make a 'point'. Provided nothing makes him jump for cover, his blade will be back in his hand, ready to go again if they don't decide to back down.

Heck, since I can't sleep right now and my brain is all a jumble, lest go for broke here. lol.

Call Item
Cost: .5
This ability allows an adept to Ready Weapon on an item/weapon that is no more than (magic) meters away. If someone attempts to stop this or there is something on top of the item, treat it as having a Strength equal to 1/2 the adepts Magic attribute.

Hey lorechaser, here's your Mjolnir and Kull.

Maybe even allow quick draw. but with a threshold increase or something.

Hmm, my only objections are two things.

0,75 points cost could be 0,25 instead and a max lvl of 4 - it gives a player a bit of flexibility.
Also, specialization does not apply when splitting pool so his pool would be 14 / 4= 3,5 (3)+2 Which is 5.
I would also recommend that Boomerang Throw does not work if an enemy has been hit - only if you miss.

How would this be function for the "Fistfuls of shurikens" build with Ambidexterity and throwing?

Pool/Ambidexterity= Split Pool
S.Pool/Opponents = Final Pool + Specializations.

So throwing against 4 opponents with ambidexterity and having a skill+Attribute of 16 with specialization for Shurikens +2

[16/2] / 4= 2D6+2

He has a total of 8 attacks with 4D6 each and throws 2 attacks per opponent.

4D6 per attack and has dicepools of : 4+4 / 3+3 / 2+2 / 1+1

He's not gonna hit much on the last two but their dodge tests will be more difficult.

Yea, we should not be able to hit people dispersed over a football field.

Ok, just brainstorming.

Fistful of Shurikens
Cost: 0,5
The ability allows the Adept to throw multiple weapons at once. The adept can throw up to Quickness weapons at once and reduces the enemies dodge test by 1D6 per thrown weapon above 1.

EDIT: Only weapons that actually FIT in the hands of the thrower can be used such. I cannot allow more than 2 dikoted chainsaws (one in each hand). Extremely small items like a handful of toothpicks will only count as Quickness amount of items.

Forgot. Improved Ability (2) with Thrown Weapons, hence 6(8 ) not a specialization.


As for Specialization and pool, that's a whole other argument. Don't want to derail my own thread.


I understand your point for flexibility, but I don't feel it needs to be leveled. Splitting your dice pool has it's own built in restrictions. Making this one leveled feel artificial to me. But I really appreciate all the input. It's helping a lot.


Unfortunately, this concept is totally counter to the imagery/effect I was going for with the power. In case you haven't seen it THIS is what I was going for. It's at 1:35 in to the trailer.

lol. Similarly inspired, one I wrote up for one of my players a couple of years ago.

Scatter Shot
Cost: .5
This allows an adept to use burst fire rules for their thrown attack provided they have enough ammunition available and readied.

Maybe if Harlequin were an adept.

I read that and thought "No, no, it's K*r*ull, not Kull." Then I read my original post.

My iPad corrected Krull (the awesome (it was awesome, shut up!) 80's movie) to Kull (which I assume to be Kull the Conqueror, which proved that Kevin Sorbo should stick with Hercules and Andromeda, but provided a fun midnight showing with 5 friends as we shouting things like "Put your shirt back on, Kevin!" and "Oh no, it's the demon whore!" at the screen, since we were all alone).

I knew Apple had bad taste, but man.

I understand what you are going for but I can see some...'realism' problems with some weapons.

Fans = Would work as in the movie, slicing and harming people
Ball bearings = Would work as they bounce between people
Knives= Would not work as they lodge in people.

For in-game items I'd say

Boomerang = Fan, will work
Blunt weapons= will bounce
Edged weapons= knives, swords, shurikens - stop when they hit an enemy, bounce back if they miss

LOL

I didn't even catch that, especially since I copy/pasted from your post to save a few extra key strokes.

And for the record, I TOTALLY agree! On BOTH counts.

And there we have it. Easy fix for those who have some realism issues. However, I would allow swords, especially curved ones as most are slicing weapons, not piercing weapons. So piecing weapons, out.

I do like this particular option, though...

This, however, smacks of quasi-teleportation. I don't like it.

So wait...just want to see if i understand what we are getting at here, and i may be completely off, but,

what you are talking about here, is using distance strike to do your throw damage without throwing your weapon, yeah?

and as for the Ricochet/Boomerang Ideas, i love the concept, but if i choose to run something like this on my board it would only be for very specific weapon types. I agree with TJ that knoves/shurikens are right out, but i dont see the problem with a chakram, or shield etc. and i would probably require it be an attuned item. Simply because its easier to explain that way as well. you have a "tether" to the attuned item or bound foci, allowing you to "pull" it back to you.

At heart, it's a way to be a "Throwing Adept" without the typical powers and skills. It's twisting yourself around the abstraction of the system, and thinking "Okay, what does Bullseye really do? Bullseye really does kung-fu on people without having to stand right next to them." And then you figure out a way to do it. You've got a Geas limitation that says you've got to have something to throw, and other than that you just go nuts and have fun with it. Everything else comes down to what cool, flavorful, descriptions you want to give to throwing stuff and taking people out with 'em.

*shrugs*

Obviously it's not gonna work for everyone's game, but it's one solution. Instead of trying to mess around with new powers and changing how throwing weapons works and all that, you use what you've got, describe it a different way, and call it good.

Calling on an inert item on the ground...

That's stretching it. Captain america at least had to go and get his shield. Thor like hammer abilities would rather be along the line of something else.

For a Thor like character you'd have to be more colourful - perhaps even a bound ally spirit with anchored levitate or something.

The problem you get with that is that it is limited to Magic meters. Which is essentially useless. A geas makes the power 0,5 points cheaper and that aint very impressive.

Hmm...

Shield/weapon becomes a fetish item for the power to work and you have to spend a point of Karma/BP to attune it? Essentially a Geas for adept powers as well. You gain a few magic point through the geas but have to spend BP for attunement without the initiation or something.

Sort of, as long as you have something to throw, you oculd throw it (at the reduced range of the Ability) and have the weapon "return" to you . It gives the flavor of a returning weapon without creating anything else for rules. I would gladly approve this, but not the relevant Houseruled Adept abilities that have been discussed to this point. *shrug*

Point: This does reduce the range of the Throwing Adept's "weapons" to have this effect. Personally, I just buy a lot of little innocuous things to keep on the person of the Throwing Adept, and then you have a multitude of options that are very low key.

I keep a few throwing knives and a deck of cards on me (gambit style). As for anything else well...have you seen the way our streets look nowadays? and if you take into account the every so slightly (cough) decayed look that has been presented thus far for the mean streets, well, there is a multitude of ammo laying around everywhere for a throwing adept, thus the reason i like Nimble Fingers so much. oh, wait, i need ammo, pick up a soycafe can from the dumpster next to me "That will do"

Indeed, you and I apparently think alike in this regard.