Sports rifles v Sniper rifles, a comparison. Options

[Bearclaw]

I was thinking the same thing. You know that there's plenty of semi-auto, clip fed, hunting rifles available now, right? And if it used any kind of a clip, you can slap a 20 round clip in. The first time I went deer hunting (1982) was with a semi-auto Remington 30-06. I'm pretty sure it was a 750. They've been around forever.

edit> I should clarify. The 750 is internal magazine fed, not clip fed. But the design is such that it's a minor modification to make it clip fed. Plenty of others are clip fed though.

[Mäx]

I was thinking the same thing. You know that there's plenty of semi-auto, clip fed, hunting rifles available now, right? And if it used any kind of a clip, you can slap a 20 round clip in.

You can slap even bigger clips then that into it, but whether or not it's legal for you to do so depends highly on where you are.

[Bearclaw]

The trick is, you have it in your trunk with your camping gear and a legal clip in it. Then all you have to do is hide a couple of large clips in with the cook stove and pans. No problem.

"What is the purpose of your visit to the Salish-Sidhe nation?"
"Hunting. I have my license right here, and my rifle and camping gear are in the trunk."

Same story if you're checked around Seattle.
"Oh yea, that. I'm heading out to the NAN for some elk hunting."
It's important to get that "k" in elk though. Both times I've typed it, I hit an "f" instead.

[CanRay]

Considering Brackhaven is in charge, there might be "Misspelled" hunting licenses for Elf. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[lorechaser]

The trick is, you have it in your trunk with your camping gear and a legal clip in it. Then all you have to do is hide a couple of large clips in with the cook stove and pans. No problem.

"What is the purpose of your visit to the Salish-Sidhe nation?"
"Hunting. I have my license right here, and my rifle and camping gear are in the trunk."

Same story if you're checked around Seattle.
"Oh yea, that. I'm heading out to the NAN for some elk hunting."
It's important to get that "k" in elk though. Both times I've typed it, I hit an "f" instead.

Marry me?

Was that awkward?

How about "Your ideas are intriguing to me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter."

[lorechaser]

The earlier mentioned Terracotta Arms Caravan from GH 2 is 8P AP -1 SA 10{c}, it loses -2AP and 4 rounds of ammo capacity to Ares Desert Strike, but is only 7R compared to 10F and 1/3 the cost.

I would consider changing that to Caravan(at least for the next character or if you end up having to dump the gun on the current character) for a mere 275 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) you get SA mode and double the ammo capacity.

Thanks for this! I picked up the Caravan in place of my old sport rifle because of this.

[Emperor Tippy]

My preferred choice for sniping is an Ares Heavy MP Laser and if possible a Firelance or Mercury laser instead.

No recoil, ignores half of armor, same damage as a Sniper Rifle, better range, no traceable forensics left behind, no sound, and it's SA without any recoil.

[All4BigGuns]

My preferred choice for sniping is an Ares Heavy MP Laser and if possible a Firelance or Mercury laser instead.

No recoil, ignores half of armor, same damage as a Sniper Rifle, better range, no traceable forensics left behind, no sound, and it's SA without any recoil.

Unfortunately, for most groups, those are a case of "good luck getting it".

[Cabral]

My preferred choice for sniping is an Ares Heavy MP Laser and if possible a Firelance or Mercury laser instead.

No recoil, ignores half of armor, same damage as a Sniper Rifle, better range, no traceable forensics left behind, no sound, and it's SA without any recoil.

The Heavy MP Laser is only 6P at extreme range.

[Emperor Tippy]

Unfortunately, for most groups, those are a case of "good luck getting it".

True enough. Although laser weapons are generally my preferred carry choice because they don't trigger the bullet sensor systems, don't trigger the gun powder chemical sensors, don't leave forensics, are silent, ignore half of armor, and are just generally quite nifty.

[Emperor Tippy]

The Heavy MP Laser is only 6P at extreme range.

And it ignores half armor, which ends up being a wash at extreme range with the various sniper rifles. It's also SA so you can get two shots without recoil in the same action phase.

As I said, I prefer it. That doesn't mean it's the clear cut best choice or anything. Sniping is as much an art as it is a science and what the best choice is depends on a ton of factors.

I mean my preference for most sniping is from 20 kilometers away with a stealth LZ-2065 with a Mercury laser; but that is not practicable for all situations and all groups.

Another preferred choice is a Heimdall Drone (ideally with extended range so it can launch from across the continent).

[CanRay]

Laser weapons, owing to their rarity, tend to not leave forensics, but narrows the field down pretty damned well as to who might be responsible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Emperor Tippy]

Laser weapons, owing to their rarity, tend to not leave forensics, but narrows the field down pretty damned well as to who might be responsible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yep, and tends to point in entirely the wrong direction. Investigations focus on nation states, mega corps, the few mercenary units known to have laser weapons, etc.

[Midas]

The earlier mentioned Terracotta Arms Caravan from GH 2 is 8P AP -1 SA 10{c}, it loses -2AP and 4 rounds of ammo capacity to Ares Desert Strike, but is only 7R compared to 10F and 1/3 the cost.
I would consider changing that to Caravan(at least for the next character or if you end up having to dump the gun on the current character) for a mere 275 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) you get SA mode and double the ammo capacity.

Thanks for the advice! Will bear it in mind, although some of my characters might consider firing in SA mode "cheating" compared to the beauty and precision of a double-tap.

[Midas]

It's a valid but overvalued point. If we're talking in the context of sniping (as this thread asked) then the profile is an entirely moot point since the very nature of the task of sniping necessitates stealth otherwise you're talking about being a marksman. If stealth is required then the legality of the weapon is immaterial since you're screwed if you're discovered and not on if you have a legal or illegal weapon. If you've been spotted while engaging in the task then you've failed at it and sport rifle vs sniper rifle or battle rifle doesn't matter. If the legality of of the weapon is a concern, then the SIG Sauer 574 is 9R and solves that little problem while still maintaining the BF fire mode and the much larger magazine capacity.

You are right in that once "moving into position" with that ruthenium suit, maglock passkeys autopickers and the works, whether you get caught with a sports rifle or sniper rifle is a moot point.

In terms of being able to explain away your weapon, the sports rifle has advantages if you are on a job that requires crossing borders (quite common in places like Seattle), flying (as a recreational hunter, the sports rifle should be fine in your stowed luggage), or involves increased security near the assassination site (randon car stop-and-searches). If you have your own vehicle I guess a smuggling compartment will circumvent a lot of these problems, but then you have to use your vehicle (with all the potential for leaving a trail) rather than jack/hire a random one.

I found your distinction between "sniper" and a "marksman" interesting though, I have only ever designed one out-and-out sniper but have made several builds with versatility as marksmen. Perhaps this is the reason behind my characters' preferences.

[The Jopp]

The Heavy MP Laser is only 6P at extreme range.

I'd go with the MP Laser 3 for concealability.

Sporting rifle ranges are good enough as you seldom fight at such extreme ranges.

You can always add a longer barrel +10% range

BUT

Pros:
1/2 Armor
Fire elemental effect
No ballistic trace

[StealthSigma]

You are right in that once "moving into position" with that ruthenium suit, maglock passkeys autopickers and the works, whether you get caught with a sports rifle or sniper rifle is a moot point.

In terms of being able to explain away your weapon, the sports rifle has advantages if you are on a job that requires crossing borders (quite common in places like Seattle), flying (as a recreational hunter, the sports rifle should be fine in your stowed luggage), or involves increased security near the assassination site (randon car stop-and-searches). If you have your own vehicle I guess a smuggling compartment will circumvent a lot of these problems, but then you have to use your vehicle (with all the potential for leaving a trail) rather than jack/hire a random one.

Outsource your smuggling...?

I found your distinction between "sniper" and a "marksman" interesting though, I have only ever designed one out-and-out sniper but have made several builds with versatility as marksmen. Perhaps this is the reason behind my characters' preferences.

Read about some of the tests that a sniper candidate has to pass to become a sniper. The distinction is a bit more than interesting. I find the observational training extremely intriguing because it rewires how you perceive the world.

--

I'd go with the MP Laser 3 for concealability.

Sporting rifle ranges are good enough as you seldom fight at such extreme ranges.

You can always add a longer barrel +10% range

I.... I think physics just cried.

Anyway, you go with the heavier laser to get advantage of the longer range categories so you can shoot from farther out without losing damage.

[Stahlseele]

why would physics cry?
the only reason why a laser weapon would have a barrel to begin with would be to house the focusing lenses needed to get the light into a form capable of hurting stuff at ranges greater than spit . .
so longer barrel=more lenses for more focused beam which then loses power later . .

[StealthSigma]

why would physics cry?
the only reason why a laser weapon would have a barrel to begin with would be to house the focusing lenses needed to get the light into a form capable of hurting stuff at ranges greater than spit . .
so longer barrel=more lenses for more focused beam which then loses power later . .

It's not focusing that is the problem. It's diffraction of the beam that causes the problem.

A laser systems will essentially be a two lens system and any further lenses won't help. You have your focusing lens, which focuses the light source and you collimating lens which straightens the light so that it will go farther. Essentially, all the light from a laser system after passing through a collimating lens will be traveling parallel to each other. If you extend the barrel and put further collimating lenses in it, the best case scenario is that your maximum distance has been altered by the the exact length you've increased the barrel by since your 2nd/3rd/4th/etc collimating lenses are all just correcting the diffraction that happens while traveling between the lenses.

[Stahlseele]

ah right i forgot about diffraction . .

[CanRay]

ah right i forgot about diffraction . .

Well, you always did have problems with fractions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[StealthSigma]

Well, you always did have problems with fractions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

That's okay. I kept typing diffusion instead of diffraction when writing the post. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Well, you always did have problems with fractions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

indeed, i did. and i still do too i am afraid.
i was always more partial to percentages..

[Cabral]

o

I'd go with the MP Laser 3 for concealability.

Sporting rifle ranges are good enough as you seldom fight at such extreme ranges.

You can always add a longer barrel +10% range

BUT

Pros:
1/2 Armor
Fire elemental effect
No ballistic trace

Don't laser weapons have issues with smoke and fog? I would argue that basic city smog would have a similar effect. I like laser weapons, but I'm not sold on their effectiveness at sniping.

[StealthSigma]

o
Don't laser weapons have issues with smoke and fog? I would argue that basic city smog would have a similar effect. I like laser weapons, but I'm not sold on their effectiveness at sniping.

They do. The rules for laser weapon are -1/-2/-3 damage at Medium/Long/Extreme range. That penalty doubles in light smoke style areas to -2/-4/-6 and triples in heavy smoke areas to -3/-6/-9.