Sniper rifles are awesome. With the longest range of any non-heavy-weapon in the game and damage codes and penetration only just shy of an assault cannon, they're among the top guns in the game.
However, they do have their downsides...
They are very expensive (base model).
They are, without exception, highly illegal.
They degrade quickly in a 'firefight' (as opposed to a sniper situation. sometimes the line is hard to draw, though), and doubly so in melee.

And so, if it looks like one of these drawbacks is going to be an issue, we turn to sports rifles. Sports rifles are a mixed bag as far as functionality is concerned: Their range, while inferior to that of a true sniper rifle, is superior to most of its competitors (with the exception of battle rifles, which use the same ranges). Their damage codes tend to be either equal to or slightly inferior to sniper rifles, though this of course is dependent on the models being compared. one universal failing of the sports rifle compared to the sniper rifle is of course inferior armour penetration.
However...
Sports rifles are almost always legal to own and easy to acquire (just head down to your local weapons world).
At their cheapest, Sports rifles can be acquired at 500 new. For runners who need a disposable sniper rifle on a budget, this is a very solid plus point.
Sports rifles work perfectly well when used in a firefight or other tactical situation, unlike sniper rifles.

So my question to dumpshock is: which is your go-to sniping weapon?

HK-PSG1 Almost Exclusively.

My team doesn't often need to snipe, as they prefer a lot of creative, nonlethal solutions.

But when they DO, they go BIG. Typically drone-mounted ares MP heavy lasers and Gauss Rifles.

9S is enough base damage for most work, unless you're a high-level group running an actual sniper job.

The right tool for the right job.

If you're in a city, a Sport Rifle is typically good enough. You're not trying to shoot down a few miles typically. Unless you're shooting through buildings.

As you get through areas where there's longer ranged shots, OTOH, yeah, go with a sniper rifle.

And if you're facing armour of any type, the ultimate "Sniper" weapon: Assault Cannon. State of the art Bang-Bang!

Get a hunting license with your [fake] SIN, along with whatever else may be required by your area, and you've got a legal excuse to have a sport rifle. Maybe a few looks, but less hassle from the local LEOs if they know (or at least believe) that you're a game hunter when they find that sporting rifle in your vehicle.

Assault-Rifle.
Nothing says Hello quite like 6 rounds on target over good enough distance.
Or a Bow.

I bought a battle rifle for one of my characters. She doesn't have a long weapons skill, but is very proficient with automatics, so I modded it with a barrel extension, a bipod, a tricked out imaging scope, easy breakdown and bought an MDS lined case for transportation. 7P with SA mode is a fine thing to have and the availability difference between an AM-884 and a Remington 950 is only 6R to 4R

This being said, the sport rifle is my go-to weapon for marksman oriented characters and NPCs, for the same reasons you mentioned in the first post. There are a lot of them out there, but I seem to gravitate towards the Remington 950 in 80% of all cases.

For your Troll sniper I suggest the PJSS Elephant Rifle.

For close quarter work (within 100 meters) you take a sawn off barrel, removed stock and a underbarrel PJSS with the same mod.

Expensive as hell but 4 barrels of doom. And a Troll can use them onehanded with no penalty.

The Ares Desert Strike is a pretty good deal.

Bye
Thanee

Speaking of removed stock, what modifications would that be? additional -1 recoil penalty?

Yea, sounds about right. Use the cost for Barrel Reduction but give -1 recoil penalty. You gain the concealability but suffer the recoil.

So you've listed three drawbacks and used them as a justification to use a sports rifle over sniper rifle. There's also truly three classes of weapon to consider for marksmen (sport rifle, battle rifle, and sniper rifle). As you've already listed, the advantage to the sniper rifle is the high damage and high penetration but you've also missed the SA firing mode compared to the SS mode of the sport rifle. The battle rifle has 1P less damage than some sport rifles but makes up for it with SA mode, much higher magazines, and often the inclusion of BF and possible FA modes which offsets the -1P damage.

Damage and Fire Modes (average)
Sport Rifles - ~7.5P -1AP SS (throwing the elephant gun out as an outlier)
Battle Rifles - ~7P -1AP SA/BF
Sniper Rifles - ~7.5P -3AP SA (I threw out the Barrett 121 but I should probably throw out the Walter and PSG Enforcer due to wildly they differ from sniper rifles [can be used in combat/dual clips] for 8P -3AP SA firing modes) I wish I had more sniper rifles to look at that were more "standard" but the damn things are so wildly unique getting a good sample is tough

They are very expensive (base model). This is true. Battle rifles and sniper rifles are vastly more expensive than sport rifles. However, if you are true to your craft then cost should not be a consideration when creating the marksman. The only time that cost truly matters is when you need a disposable item. The bigger issue is availability of which sport rifles are much lower than battle rifles and sniper rifles making it easier to get your hands on one faster. Once again, that's more of a disposable criteria than anything else.

They are, without exception, highly illegal. This is a bit of a weak argument. You're essentially talking about walking around with this thing openly displayed for this to be particularly compelling but the fault lies with the fact that walking around with a sport rifle is going to attract attention anyway. So if you're going to use it then you're going to be avoiding attention anyway which doesn't give the sport rifle any advantage.

They degrade quickly in a 'firefight'. The Walter sniper rifle doesn't suffer this problem but neither do battle rifles.

All in all, my feeling has been that sporting rifles prime and sole advantage over battle rifles and sniper rifles is its disposable nature. As far as combat performance goes, they are vastly inferior to battle rifles and sniper rifles just on the grounds of having a much smaller magazine size and SS fire modes over the large magazine and SA modes that both options. Additionally, the BF fire modes available to battle rifles helps them overcome their lower damage.

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I second this, as far as the stock sniper rifles go, this is probably the best outside of the Barrett 121. Great price, barrel extension, 8P/-3AP SA. However I've begun to prefer battle rifles for their versatility.

Modding a Battle Rifle to have a Drum, Full Auto, and High Velocity can get pricey but the payoff is great. The mods are F but some of the BRs are only Restricted.

That said, GH2 has some nice new sport rifles. The Terracotta Arms Caravan I think it's called is pretty nifty.

There are now days quite a few good SA sport rifles available, so this is somewhat of a obsolete point.

I like to think of this as a difference in classification between civilian firearms and military/security (aka, forbidden) firearms.

If its SA, then you classify it as a sniper rifle/battle rifle in legal terms, and is therefore forbidden for civilian ownership. Therefore, No weapon manufacturers are going to bother making a straight up sport rifle with SA capabilities, but is still a 5 shot internal magazine, lower power and penetration than a true sniper rifle, but all the same legal restrictions.

Its kind of like how you can't have a handgun with more than 10 rounds in it in California, even if the weapon could hold more. Or how you can't have a shotgun with a barrel shorter than (can't remember the length) or else its considered a sawed off and is therefore illegal.

You do realize i was talking about ingame, Gun Heaven books add 3 or 4 new SA sport rifles(where as we only used to have 1)

Not really. The SA was only part of the difference that made battle rifles superior. The BF capability and much larger magazine size is what gives battle rifles the combat edge. Sniper rifles still have the edge in outright damage and armor penetration.

So going through Gun Heaven....
Ares Canadian Sportster - 6P/0 SA 8©

In fact, that's the only one I see in Gun Heaven so I'm not sure how this is even relevant considering it's 1.5P and 1 AP lower than the sport rifle average.

The point about sports rifles being a lower profile weapon than sniper rifles or battle rifles is a valid one. The degree of attention and suspicion the latter 2 attract is often going to be one step or more higher.

Out in the styx where paracritters can pop up at any moment, some places wouldn't look twice at someone walking into a bar and propping up their sports rifle or shotgun by their stool. A battle rifle, assault rifle or sniper rifle would be noticed, and the local marshal might surreptitiously be summoned to see what them strangers intentions are.

In the city, as Glyph said, if the cops find a sports rifle in your car a hunting license will explain its presence, while a sniper rifle, battle rifle or assault rifle might lead to a call for backup and some unpleasant questions down the precinct. Walking openly with any rifle in the suburban streets would instantly attract police attention, but in the case of the guy with the military use weapon the attention will include a scrambled SWAT helicopter.

These are the reasons my longarms characters always go for the Remmington 950, loaded with EX-EX if I feel I have to make a point. For a close-and-dirty fight, I switch to my Franchi SPAS-22 shotgun.

The earlier mentioned Terracotta Arms Caravan from GH 2 is 8P AP -1 SA 10{c}, it loses -2AP and 4 rounds of ammo capacity to Ares Desert Strike, but is only 7R compared to 10F and 1/3 the cost.

I would consider changing that to Caravan(at least for the next character or if you end up having to dump the gun on the current character) for a mere 275 you get SA mode and double the ammo capacity.

It's a valid but overvalued point. If we're talking in the context of sniping (as this thread asked) then the profile is an entirely moot point since the very nature of the task of sniping necessitates stealth otherwise you're talking about being a marksman. If stealth is required then the legality of the weapon is immaterial since you're screwed if you're discovered and not on if you have a legal or illegal weapon. If you've been spotted while engaging in the task then you've failed at it and sport rifle vs sniper rifle or battle rifle doesn't matter. If the legality of of the weapon is a concern, then the SIG Sauer 574 is 9R and solves that little problem while still maintaining the BF fire mode and the much larger magazine capacity.

yes, but before gun heaven threw a wrench in realism, you can look at weapons like....
Arsenal - Beretta 200ST - where it says they were able to get a weapon classified as a light pistol (instead of as a machine pistol i would assume) that seems to imply that firing mode has something to do with how weapons are classified.

I personally went for the Barret for my Adept sniper & use it 90% of the time in combat but I also tend to move away from combat enough to make the weapon Viable while other members of the team stay in closer range

Not true, I have a Hunting Rifle (Remington Model 64) Now that would be classified SA. They are available, and they are not Military/Security Classified.

Shotgun: 18" (though you can saw it off to that length).

There's a lot of variance regarding weapon laws across the United States. Which is another point to bring up regarding the profile/availability/legality of battle/sport/sniper rifles. This came up and bit me in another thread. The availabilities listed for weapons are only indicative for Seattle (though some case could be made that options presented in a book that is fluffy elsewhere are availability for there). That means that while battle rifles may be F in Seattle, out in the barrens with the nasty paracritters that may only be considered restricted due to the meatier threats. Pg313 of SR4A under legality for anyone who doubts.

I was thinking the same thing. You know that there's plenty of semi-auto, clip fed, hunting rifles available now, right? And if it used any kind of a clip, you can slap a 20 round clip in. The first time I went deer hunting (1982) was with a semi-auto Remington 30-06. I'm pretty sure it was a 750. They've been around forever.

edit> I should clarify. The 750 is internal magazine fed, not clip fed. But the design is such that it's a minor modification to make it clip fed. Plenty of others are clip fed though.

You can slap even bigger clips then that into it, but whether or not it's legal for you to do so depends highly on where you are.

The trick is, you have it in your trunk with your camping gear and a legal clip in it. Then all you have to do is hide a couple of large clips in with the cook stove and pans. No problem.

"What is the purpose of your visit to the Salish-Sidhe nation?"
"Hunting. I have my license right here, and my rifle and camping gear are in the trunk."

Same story if you're checked around Seattle.
"Oh yea, that. I'm heading out to the NAN for some elk hunting."
It's important to get that "k" in elk though. Both times I've typed it, I hit an "f" instead.

Considering Brackhaven is in charge, there might be "Misspelled" hunting licenses for Elf.

Marry me?

Was that awkward?

How about "Your ideas are intriguing to me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter."

Thanks for this! I picked up the Caravan in place of my old sport rifle because of this.

My preferred choice for sniping is an Ares Heavy MP Laser and if possible a Firelance or Mercury laser instead.

No recoil, ignores half of armor, same damage as a Sniper Rifle, better range, no traceable forensics left behind, no sound, and it's SA without any recoil.

Unfortunately, for most groups, those are a case of "good luck getting it".

The Heavy MP Laser is only 6P at extreme range.

True enough. Although laser weapons are generally my preferred carry choice because they don't trigger the bullet sensor systems, don't trigger the gun powder chemical sensors, don't leave forensics, are silent, ignore half of armor, and are just generally quite nifty.

And it ignores half armor, which ends up being a wash at extreme range with the various sniper rifles. It's also SA so you can get two shots without recoil in the same action phase.

As I said, I prefer it. That doesn't mean it's the clear cut best choice or anything. Sniping is as much an art as it is a science and what the best choice is depends on a ton of factors.

I mean my preference for most sniping is from 20 kilometers away with a stealth LZ-2065 with a Mercury laser; but that is not practicable for all situations and all groups.

Another preferred choice is a Heimdall Drone (ideally with extended range so it can launch from across the continent).

Laser weapons, owing to their rarity, tend to not leave forensics, but narrows the field down pretty damned well as to who might be responsible.

Yep, and tends to point in entirely the wrong direction. Investigations focus on nation states, mega corps, the few mercenary units known to have laser weapons, etc.

Thanks for the advice! Will bear it in mind, although some of my characters might consider firing in SA mode "cheating" compared to the beauty and precision of a double-tap.

You are right in that once "moving into position" with that ruthenium suit, maglock passkeys autopickers and the works, whether you get caught with a sports rifle or sniper rifle is a moot point.

In terms of being able to explain away your weapon, the sports rifle has advantages if you are on a job that requires crossing borders (quite common in places like Seattle), flying (as a recreational hunter, the sports rifle should be fine in your stowed luggage), or involves increased security near the assassination site (randon car stop-and-searches). If you have your own vehicle I guess a smuggling compartment will circumvent a lot of these problems, but then you have to use your vehicle (with all the potential for leaving a trail) rather than jack/hire a random one.

I found your distinction between "sniper" and a "marksman" interesting though, I have only ever designed one out-and-out sniper but have made several builds with versatility as marksmen. Perhaps this is the reason behind my characters' preferences.

I'd go with the MP Laser 3 for concealability.

Sporting rifle ranges are good enough as you seldom fight at such extreme ranges.

You can always add a longer barrel +10% range

BUT

Pros:
1/2 Armor
Fire elemental effect
No ballistic trace

Outsource your smuggling...?



Read about some of the tests that a sniper candidate has to pass to become a sniper. The distinction is a bit more than interesting. I find the observational training extremely intriguing because it rewires how you perceive the world.

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I.... I think physics just cried.

Anyway, you go with the heavier laser to get advantage of the longer range categories so you can shoot from farther out without losing damage.

why would physics cry?
the only reason why a laser weapon would have a barrel to begin with would be to house the focusing lenses needed to get the light into a form capable of hurting stuff at ranges greater than spit . .
so longer barrel=more lenses for more focused beam which then loses power later . .

It's not focusing that is the problem. It's diffraction of the beam that causes the problem.

A laser systems will essentially be a two lens system and any further lenses won't help. You have your focusing lens, which focuses the light source and you collimating lens which straightens the light so that it will go farther. Essentially, all the light from a laser system after passing through a collimating lens will be traveling parallel to each other. If you extend the barrel and put further collimating lenses in it, the best case scenario is that your maximum distance has been altered by the the exact length you've increased the barrel by since your 2nd/3rd/4th/etc collimating lenses are all just correcting the diffraction that happens while traveling between the lenses.

ah right i forgot about diffraction . .

Well, you always did have problems with fractions.

That's okay. I kept typing diffusion instead of diffraction when writing the post.

indeed, i did. and i still do too i am afraid.
i was always more partial to percentages..

o
Don't laser weapons have issues with smoke and fog? I would argue that basic city smog would have a similar effect. I like laser weapons, but I'm not sold on their effectiveness at sniping.

They do. The rules for laser weapon are -1/-2/-3 damage at Medium/Long/Extreme range. That penalty doubles in light smoke style areas to -2/-4/-6 and triples in heavy smoke areas to -3/-6/-9.