Sports rifles v Sniper rifles, a comparison. Options

[Stahlseele]

How about under water?

[StealthSigma]

How about under water?

No differing effect from air, I suppose. Diffraction with water happens because light moves from air to water or from water to air. So unlike most weapons fired underwater, laser weapons shouldn't have any range reductions.... Other things like murky or dirty water would affect it though. I'm assuming the laser isn't one that requires time on target to do damage so it's not as though water would be able to cool the spot either...

[nezumi]

But water, being denser, will significantly increase the effects of difraction. Also, more of those photons will collide in the denser liquid, so you'll lose heat quicker (possibly with deadly affects). Remember that a powerful laser isn't silent; it makes a crack as it superheats all the air along the path, which then dissipates harmlessly into the atmosphere. Water means more superheating and slower dissipation, not to mention shock from the sudden burst of steam.

[Halinn]

Depending on the output of the laser weapon, you might even create plasma close to you, which might get somewhat uncomfortable.

[CanRay]

So, no cybersharks with frickin' lasers on their heads?

Pity.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Thanks for the advice! Will bear it in mind, although some of my characters might consider firing in SA mode "cheating" compared to the beauty and precision of a double-tap.

Ummmmm.... SA Mode IS a double tap. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cabral]

So, no cybersharks with frickin' lasers on their heads?

Pity.

There was an interesting article about using surface-to-water lasers to convert the laser to an acoustic signal that submarines can pick up. So, your shark could have lasers that effectively fire a sonic attack. I thought there was an exotic weapon to duplicate that effect, but I couldn't find one (the pain inducer is microwave-based, correct?)

[kzt]

I was thinking the same thing. You know that there's plenty of semi-auto, clip fed, hunting rifles available now, right? And if it used any kind of a clip, you can slap a 20 round clip in. The first time I went deer hunting (1982) was with a semi-auto Remington 30-06. I'm pretty sure it was a 750. They've been around forever.

If you know anything about guns it's obvious that the SR approach is stupid beyond belief. Essentially SR would have you believe that a .308 24" Remington 700 does X damage & Y AP. and a M24 Sniper rifle does X+2 damage and Y+2 AP. Given that a M24 sniper rifle IS a 24" Remington 700 in .308 this makes exactly zero sense.

So arguing anything based on real guns in this entire thread is completely pointless.

[Midas]

Ummmmm.... SA Mode IS a double tap. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

D'Oh! You're right, where had I left my brain yesterday ...

[Seriously Mike]

HK-PSG1 Almost Exclusively. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh, another target of my jokes, after the Desert Eagle. Did you know that the ejector can chuck a spent casing ten metres away? Go fetch it, trenchcoat.

Also, I recommended exactly the same customized sports rifle to two of my players. Ruger 100 with imaging scope modded with a smartlink, an external smartgun system, extended ten-round magazine and a suppressor. Inexpensive, powerful and semi-automatic. Something like the Mini-14.

[The Jopp]

Also, I recommended exactly the same customized sports rifle to two of my players. Ruger 100 with imaging scope modded with a smartlink, an external smartgun system, extended ten-round magazine and a suppressor. Inexpensive, powerful and semi-automatic. Something like the Mini-14.

I would also recommend easy breakdown modification so it can be more easily transported and/or smuggled into secure locations.

I would go with the Remington 750 as it only cost 500Y as compared to the Ruger 100's 900Y. It ups the cost 400Y for the Semi-Auto modification and easy breakdown.

[The Jopp]

Sporting rifles are good up to 750 meters.

How often do you guys have situation where such distances are needed or where he situation allows for it?
Urban landscapes/forests etc seldom allows for more than a couple of hundred meters.

A bullpup design sports rifle with shortened barrel and a scope is still 600 meters for added concealability.

[Dolanar]

I agree Max range isn't that important, but anything that improves your Max range also improves your short & medium range.

[The Jopp]

I agree Max range isn't that important, but anything that improves your Max range also improves your short & medium range.

True, but that is kinda redundant with either improved rangefinder, scope or SL2 and optical magnification cybereye mod.

And short range with a sports rifle with shortened barrel is still 80 meters.

[Dolanar]

Not really redundant, as the closer you are the more you can use OTHER modifiers, as soon as you start actually using your scope beyond the base, you either take the negative or you lose out on other mods such as Smartlink so maximizing your short range allows you to use other things like Aim more effectively

[Seriously Mike]

I would also recommend easy breakdown modification so it can be more easily transported and/or smuggled into secure locations.

That's something I didn't think of. However, I'm not too keen on the Remington - to a semi-competent gun nut like me, modding a bolt-action gun to a semi-auto one is, frankly, BS.

[KarmaInferno]

It's certainly possible.

You'd just have to rebuild most of the weapon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)




-k

[The Jopp]

That's something I didn't think of. However, I'm not too keen on the Remington - to a semi-competent gun nut like me, modding a bolt-action gun to a semi-auto one is, frankly, BS.

Good point, realism kind of throws most weapon modifications out the window.

[The Jopp]

For the assured kill I'd still use a scoped bipod long barreled PJSS rifle with double barreled Ex-Ex ammunition

For the ambidextrous close combat troll I'd go with twin PJSS with underbarrel PJSS and sawn of barrel and stock and Gas vent III to ward of the insane recoil they will create firing them one handed without a proper shoulder stock

1. You look cool
2. Can "snipe" with both weapons at 600 meters
3. Are not bothered by that "two handed weapon" rules
4. Intimidation factor
5. Can call them "my little holdouts" with a straight face

If you have six arms and is a changeling and have X6 of the above you have more money than sense and I cannot help you.

Lean against a wall before firing all six of them at once though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[FuelDrop]

For the assured kill I'd still use a scoped bipod long barreled PJSS rifle with double barreled Ex-Ex ammunition

For the ambidextrous close combat troll I'd go with twin PJSS with underbarrel PJSS and sawn of barrel and stock and Gas vent III to ward of the insane recoil they will create firing them one handed without a proper shoulder stock

1. You look cool
2. Can "snipe" with both weapons at 600 meters
3. Are not bothered by that "two handed weapon" rules
4. Intimidation factor
5. Can call them "my little holdouts" with a straight face

If you have six arms and is a changeling and have X6 of the above you have more money than sense and I cannot help you.

Lean against a wall before firing all six of them at once though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

You just reminded me of the six-armed Minotaur one of my friends once tried to bring to the table. We said 'which part of subtle do you not understand?'... and this is a group where half the players (not the characters, the players) have both distinctive style and signature.
I was eventually called in to build him a troll Al Capone who had a custom LMG that looked like a tommy gun. And this was the less distinctive option *facepalm*

[The Jopp]

You just reminded me of the six-armed Minotaur one of my friends once tried to bring to the table. We said 'which part of subtle do you not understand?'... and this is a group where half the players (not the characters, the players) have both distinctive style and signature.
I was eventually called in to build him a troll Al Capone who had a custom LMG that looked like a tommy gun. And this was the less distinctive option *facepalm*

Yea, whenever excessive weapons are abound and exotic characteristics the subtle part of SR is kinda blown apart.

BUT, the subtle thing about shadowrun can be that you are not IDENTIFIED during a run. Now, being a sixlimbed runner dressed in a tuxedo trying to keep a low profile at a party on the space needle might be bit more difficult - unless you are the diversion for the suave James Bond face that infiltrates the upper office floor while you make an ass of yourself in the bar.

Six limbed with detachable cyberlimbs packed in a bag on the other hand...

[StealthSigma]

True, but that is kinda redundant with either improved rangefinder, scope or SL2 and optical magnification cybereye mod.

And short range with a sports rifle with shortened barrel is still 80 meters.

No. It's not redundant. Improved rangefinder only reduces the range penalties by -1 so the effect is great at medium range and meh at long and extreme ranges. Using the scope or magnification option requires you to expend a simple action to eliminate the penalties (even with krav maga you're still burning your free action for the take aim and your rate is only improved to 1.5 per IP rather than 1 per IP compared to the ideal of 2 per IP). For most sport rifles or any weapon with SS firing mode it's a non-issue however for any SA/BF/FA that's a huge issue since you're now expending a simple action to eliminate those range penalties and losing it as an opportunity to attack. Thus a longer extreme range means you will have a longer short/medium range and your need to burn actions taking aim is eliminated/reduced.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Oh, another target of my jokes, after the Desert Eagle. Did you know that the ejector can chuck a spent casing ten metres away? Go fetch it, trenchcoat.

Also, I recommended exactly the same customized sports rifle to two of my players. Ruger 100 with imaging scope modded with a smartlink, an external smartgun system, extended ten-round magazine and a suppressor. Inexpensive, powerful and semi-automatic. Something like the Mini-14.

Why are you using Cased Rounds? That is your first mistake. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Mini-14 is a sound weapon (LOVE my Ruger Weapons to death), to be sure. Not as stylish, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Not really redundant, as the closer you are the more you can use OTHER modifiers, as soon as you start actually using your scope beyond the base, you either take the negative or you lose out on other mods such as Smartlink so maximizing your short range allows you to use other things like Aim more effectively

Indeed... Hawkeye PQ for the Win... Woo needs a scope at that point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

Oh, another target of my jokes, after the Desert Eagle. Did you know that the ejector can chuck a spent casing ten metres away? Go fetch it, trenchcoat.

Brass Catcher.

Mini-14 is a sound weapon (LOVE my Ruger Weapons to death), to be sure. Not as stylish, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Garand-System, good, reliable Canadian design. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (Yes yes, it was designed in the US, but it wasn't designed by a USer!)