Troll & Swords, Arnis de mano Options

[Stingray]

Hello!! i am trying to make martial artist troll w/ swords and finding Arnis de mano
martial art from other forums..
i was just wandering if arnis de maro can be used w/ Monofilament Swords?
( my books are now in my folks..(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) )

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

Hello!! i am trying to make martial artist troll w/ swords and finding Arnis de mano
martial art from other forums..
i was just wandering if arnis de maro can be used w/ Monofilament Swords?
( my books are now in my folks..(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) )

Sure, advantages should apply to all weapons using the Blades or Clubs skill for sure.

[Stingray]

Sure, advantages should apply to all weapons using the Blades skill

Thank u for quick answer!

[Raiden]

MONOFILAMENT KATANA!!!

[Stingray]

..bump in the road.. does Wired Reflexes and Reaction Enchanters need to be same Cyberware grade to
work together?

[SpellBinder]

Depends on the GM. Personally I'd say no to a monofilament sword.

At the gamemaster’s discretion, this specialization may not apply to all situations, if he feels the circumstances fall outside of the style's reach. For example, the gamemaster may decide that a character with the Unarmed Combat skill and the Martial Arts specialization in the style of Boxing may not apply his specialization bonus when grappling with an opponent on the ground, as the boxing style does not normally encompass groundfighting techniques.

and

Arnis de Mano emphasizes the use of clubs and knives, especially to disarm the opponent—preferably by breaking the weapon (or the hand that holds the weapon).

Emphasis mine. Again, double check with your GM on this first. He/she may feel differently than I.

[SpellBinder]

..bump in the road.. does Wired Reflexes and Reaction Enchanters need to be same Cyberware grade to
work together?

As far as I know, no, they do not have to be of the same grade, or even of the same rating.

[_Pax._]

OTOH, a Cougar Fineblade, the long-bladed variety, most assuredly is still a knife.

And does as much damage as a Monofilament Sword.

^_^

[Raiden]

I have found that the game makes it so that if you build for it, unarmed combat does and will do more damage than blades and clubs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) . but thats fine by me, I love martial arts.

[SpellBinder]

OTOH, a Cougar Fineblade, the long-bladed variety, most assuredly is still a knife.

And does as much damage as a Monofilament Sword.

^_^

A point short on damage and reach, but something I'd certainly allow with this martial arts style. Especially in the hands of a troll.

[Stingray]

Thank u all for your replies!
instead of swords, i try 2x Katar, Trolls reach and AP ( + reaction 9) makes them really scary combination..
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Dakka Dakka]

Depends on the GM. Personally I'd say no to a monofilament sword. and Emphasis mine. Again, double check with your GM on this first. He/she may feel differently than I.

Your quote refers to the martial arts Specialization not to the styles or maneuvers. A bonus in blades is a bonus in all blades. All the quote says is the GM has a right to not make the martial arts specialization a blanket +2 (which by strict reading and knowledge of martial arts it is).

[_Pax._]

I would rule the same as Spellbinder. If the style says it works with "clubs and knives", then I'm certainly not going to let you use it's advantages while wielding a spear, or an axe, or a sword.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I would rule the same as Spellbinder. If the style says it works with "clubs and knives", then I'm certainly not going to let you use it's advantages while wielding a spear, or an axe, or a sword.

This be Truth. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Glyph]

A sword-wielding troll would be a bit of a grey area to me; to a troll, a sword basically is a knife.

I would probably draw the line at a troll with a claymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[RdMarquis]

Isn't a club meant to be used as a stand in for a sword, anyway? In Filipino martial arts, I mean.

[SpellBinder]

Your quote refers to the martial arts Specialization not to the styles or maneuvers. A bonus in blades is a bonus in all blades. All the quote says is the GM has a right to not make the martial arts specialization a blanket +2 (which by strict reading and knowledge of martial arts it is).

Right, which is why I said 'check with your GM on this first' in my first post. I wholly expect some GMs to let the bonus apply to anything that might constitute a blade, from scalpel to naginata and beyond.

[Raiden]

A bladed edge weapon is a Bladed weapon. you know how to cut with it, and block with it. if it said +2 to swords, then anything that doesnt count as a shortsword to a claymore is out. IE, knives, scalpels, cardboard cutters etc.

[Dakka Dakka]

Right, which is why I said 'check with your GM on this first' in my first post. I wholly expect some GMs to let the bonus apply to anything that might constitute a blade, from scalpel to naginata and beyond.

My point was what you quoted only applies to specializations (i.e. the +2 dice pool bonus to certain skill checks) and not styles or maneuvers. There is no option for the GM to restrict the usefulness of the latter two unless he is willing to play outside the rules. Specializations on the other hand can and should be restricted, especially if their name can be understood as encompassing all uses of a skill (most martial arts have offensive, defensive and subduing techniques).

[Raiden]

well Dakka, thier is a subdual option for unarmed specialization. Ive taken alot of martial arts classes and honestly you flow from defense to offense, (push away a punch with one hand and then follow that by stepping into them and punching in return) as a rudimentary example. there really isnt a Defense and an Offense, same goes for swordplay. some GMs are harder on the crackdown of dice pools then others. but for unarmed I in my opinion would say that taking martial arts as a specialization is only viable IF you have a martial arts learned. then you get +2 whenever you are fighting. defensive or offensive, but NOT on subdual maneuvers.

[Dakka Dakka]

Specializations are not mutually exclusive (there are some with overlap and some that are subsets of another specialization). If a particular martial art has subdual techniques and you use that martial art to subdue an opponent, that specialization would apply just as well as a specialization in subduing opponents by RAW. I agree that it should be at most two of the three options, but by RAW there is no such restriction. Arsenal clarified that the GM is allowed to introduce such an restriction on the IMHO misnamed specialization.

All of this has nothing to do with martial arts styles or maneuvers.

[Marwynn]

The whole point of Arnis de Mano (and its dozens of variants) is to be able to use anything one handed, or nothing at all. So yes, it should apply to swords as well as axes if that's what your character wants to use. For a Troll, a human-sized sword's probably a good-sized dagger and a normal Claymore could be a one-handed sword.

Your GM has final say, of course, but the martial art itself won't prevent you from using it with monofilament swords.

[_Pax._]

A sword-wielding troll would be a bit of a grey area to me; to a troll, a sword basically is a knife.

I assume, when a troll buys a sword capable of surviving hits that deal troll-strength-based damage, that it's a troll-sized sword.

That is to say, "damned big". Which, I might add, would be covered by the "metahuman adjustment" thing a troll needs, to be able to wield said weapon without a die pool penalty.

[Glyph]

Not necessarily. It just means it has a troll-sized handle, not that the rest of the weapon is any bigger (it doesn't have any extra reach or base damage). Something like a troll-modified Streetline Special would look pretty comical, a tiny gun with a handle several times bigger than the rest of the weapon. They have made a few concessions to the massive size of trolls with optional rules (being able to use two-handed weapons one-handed, Strength reducing recoil), but it what an actual "troll-sized" weapon should be like has not truly be addressed, in my opinion.

[ShadowDragon8685]

A sword sized for a troll in Shadowrun would be about as big as a Grand Daiklaive from Exalted, and probably capable of dealing similarly disgustingly huge damage.

As in, you might need to actually write rules to state that it doesn't matter how hard you're hitting or with how big a sword, you're not cleaving through a tank's armor, but feel free to chop a Renraku Red Samurai straight in twain in one blue, milspec hardsuit or not.


Of course, a Troll should get a concealability bonus, too; a human will have a hard time concealing an Ares Predator, but a troll, not so much.