Troll & Swords, Arnis de mano Options

[Manunancy]

A sword sized for a troll in Shadowrun would be about as big as a Grand Of course, a Troll should get a concealability bonus, too; a human will have a hard time concealing an Ares Predator, but a troll, not so much.

If the predator is human-fitted obviously yes - but a troll-adaptated pistol will probably be about as difficult to hide thanks ot it's troll-sized grip. things get blurry with bigger stuff where even a troll-sized grip won't alter the weapon(s overal size.

[The Jopp]

Thank u all for your replies!
instead of swords, i try 2x Katar, Trolls reach and AP ( + reaction 9) makes them really scary combination..
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Now make him a changeling with X6 arms and X6 knives.

Skill 6 (+2)
Attribute: 5
Restricted Gear (bioware) Muscle Toner 4
Reflex Recorder (Blades)

So: Pool 6 + Attribute 9 + Reflex Recorder +1: 16D6 / 4= 4D6 +2

So X6 attacks with 6D6 each and we add +1 to Reach to each dagger due to troll.

I'm not sure about how reach functions in regards to multiple weapons but shouldn't the "wall of steel" approach function.

A wielder of reach 1 with X6 weapons can use several of them in a defensive manner to give the enemy a -4 (4 weapons) while giving himself a +2 (2 weapons) in the above character design?.

[Glyph]

Just don't attack the dude with Arnis De Mano's ability to do damage on disarm, combined with Two-Weapon Style and Disarm maneuvers - six attacks of 7d6 will just get you badly wounded six times.

[The Jopp]

Just don't attack the dude with Arnis De Mano's ability to do damage on disarm, combined with Two-Weapon Style and Disarm maneuvers - six attacks of 7d6 will just get you badly wounded six times.

I just had the hilarious image in my head of someone who stabs himself to death six times at once. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Stahlseele]

"The Difference between a Sword and a Club is only the side you use for hitting people"

[The Jopp]

"The Difference between a Sword and a Club is only the side you use for hitting people"

"Except that a club can more comfortable be wielded from the wrong end" - Fingerless Bob

[Bearclaw]

I stopped letting people take "martial arts" as a specialization. If you have the skill, you have studied martial arts. Duh, right? "So you have unarmed combat with a specialization in unarmed combat?"
So, kicking, punching, subdual, disarming, defense, and other specifics are acceptable specializations at my table.
As in, my son has a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. He is generally skilled in unarmed combat, but he would definitely have a specialization in "kicking".

[_Pax._]

A good replacement would be to specify WHICH martial art you have specialised in. So Bearclaw, your son could have, say, Unarmed Combat 4 (Tae Kwon Do +2).

[Stahlseele]

Which would mean he gets +2 dice to every thing he does using one of the MA moves.

[Glyph]

The problem with a martial arts specialization is that there are a lot of martial arts out there that deal with hitting people, blocking attacks, and grappling. Wildcat, for instance. Trying to decide if things fall under the purview of a specific martial art is a complicated headache and a long argument, waiting to happen. The way I see it, you are best off doing one of three things:

One, allow the specialization to apply to all aspects of unarmed (or in some cases armed) combat, for people who have bought a martial arts quality.

Two, make people pick two areas (from attacking, blocking, and subdual), which are at least semi-consistent with the martial art that they have picked.

Three, make martial arts a quality only, and change the martial arts specialization to "striking".

[_Pax._]

Four, apply the Specialisation bonus whenever that skillis being used, and a Maneuver chosen as part of the specific Martial Arts style is used.

[Dakka Dakka]

Four, apply the Specialisation bonus whenever that skillis being used, and a Maneuver chosen as part of the specific Martial Arts style is used.

Maneuvers are not tied to a particular style. While your style(s) limit the number of maneuver you may purchase, you are not limited to using them only with one of your styles.

Option four, or five would be to remove the Martial Arts Specialization from unarmed combat and possibly add the [Style] Weapons Specialization to Blades and Clubs

[The Jopp]

Which would mean he gets +2 dice to every thing he does using one of the MA moves.

I would say that such a specialization would not get him an advantage when fighting another opponent with the same martial art skill, at least as an equalizer.

[Xenefungus]

Considering that for other weapons you will use the spec. ALL of the time (e.g. Blades (Cyber-Implants)) it seems reasonable that the "Martial Arts" spec. for Unarmed could be applied to "attacking" - as opposed to Blocking or Subdual Combat. This way, all three possible options for using the skill would have a specialization.

On a sidenote, for all other melee skills you can specialize in a specific category of weapon. Expect players to ask for spec "Hardliner Gloves". I personally think this is quiet ok, because there might be times when the character doesnt have a glove available. Also, it would obviously only work for attacking and blocking, not for subdual combat.

[Dakka Dakka]

Considering that for other weapons you will use the spec. ALL of the time (e.g. Blades (Cyber-Implants)) it seems reasonable that the "Martial Arts" spec. for Unarmed could be applied to "attacking" - as opposed to Blocking or Subdual Combat. This way, all three possible options for using the skill would have a specialization.

Item based specializations are not the same thing as task based specializations. While the razorboy will most likely use his handrazors/spurs in melee combat those as any other weapon can be taken away/made unusable. If the Specialization however encompasses all possible tasks (attacking, defending and subduing) of a skill, the specialization cannot be taken away. While it might be a sensible house rule to limit the effect of the martial arts specialization to one or two of the three tasks, the rules make no such restriction.

Expect players to ask for spec "Hardliner Gloves". I personally think this is quiet ok, because there might be times when the character doesnt have a glove available. Also, it would obviously only work for attacking and blocking, not for subdual combat.

Subdual combat is limited to melee not to unarmed combat. So there is no reason why an item based Specialization should not apply when the character is subduing an opponent with that item. Yes, you can even subdue someone with an axe.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Subdual combat is limited to melee not to unarmed combat. So there is no reason why an item based Specialization should not apply when the character is subduing an opponent with that item. Yes, you can even subdue someone with an axe.

Ummmmm.. You can subdue with Unarmed Combat.

[Dakka Dakka]

Ummmmm.. You can subdue with Unarmed Combat.

Yes, and with blades or clubs. There is no rules that hardliner gloves don't work in subdual combat.

[The Jopp]

Yes, and with blades or clubs. There is no rules that hardliner gloves don't work in subdual combat.

Yup, a good fist to the face can feel pretty subduing.

Or a chop to the neck with a reinforced glove

etc...

[Xenefungus]

Yes, you can even subdue someone with an axe.

I'm AFB, but that really would be stupid. I'm with Tymeaus here, it should ONLY be possible with Unarmed Combat.

[CanRay]

Put handle between air and neck, and pull tight: Subduing someone with an axe.

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

I'm AFB, but that really would be stupid. I'm with Tymeaus here, it should ONLY be possible with Unarmed Combat.

Huh? Most forms of club/staff/stick/chain training make extensive use of subdual techniques...

[_Pax._]

And you can always strike with the flat of a sword, or the side of an axe.

[Dakka Dakka]

Put handle between air and neck, and pull tight: Subduing someone with an axe.

Exactly. You could just as well do that with any cylindrical weapon (clubs, staffs, spears etc.). Flexible weapons should be pretty obvious as well. (Longer) bladed weapons should work in the same way with the added threat of turning the edge towards the opponent. I think I even remeber seeing a technique that fixed the opponent's neck between the cross guard and the hilt.

Having reinforced gloves could also conceivably be an advantage in certain subdual techniques.

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

Exactly. You could just as well do that with any cylindrical weapon (clubs, staffs, spears etc.). Flexible weapons should be pretty obvious as well. (Longer) bladed weapons should work in the same way with the added threat of turning the edge towards the opponent. I think I even remeber seeing a technique that fixed the opponent's neck between the cross guard and the hilt.

Having reinforced gloves could also conceivably be an advantage in certain subdual techniques.

Speaking from personal experience, I think lots of Hapkido/Aikido joint locks/throws would gain an advantage by being able leverage against/dig in the reinforcement/boning in the gloves.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I'm AFB, but that really would be stupid. I'm with Tymeaus here, it should ONLY be possible with Unarmed Combat.

Not QUITE what I said... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)