Cybereyes, Ubiquitous, invisible, unstoppable? Options

[FriendoftheDork]

Hello

In the games I've played we have simply assumed that the runners all have eye recording units in cybereyes, or at least micro cameras. Now the latter might be an oversight, but how does one prevent espionage using Cybereyes?

This is like the many cell phone cameras in the world today, except you can't even see anyone using it (without hacking his 'ware), can't see if they have it without a Cyberware scanner, and surely can't easily take them away without ripping out eyes - something which is not considered polite even in criminal settings.

So how can Mr. Boss man even speak to anyone without risking being recorded in trideo? How to prevent the runners from doing it in a meet? How can the runners prevent anyone from doing it when being a witness?

Eye Recording unit: This comes for free with Cybereyes and allows data to be recorded from the optical nerve to an UNLIMITED storage unit, which vaguely can be set to only communicate with an Datajack or Sim Module.

I find that this game still opens up these kinds of questions despite having used the rules for awhile and not thinking about it.

On another note, what exactly is needed for mentally interfacing a commlink? Sim Module and Trode Net/Datajack? Implanted commlink? This is another thing we take for granted every runner can do.

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

On another note, what exactly is needed for mentally interfacing a commlink? Sim Module and Trode Net/Datajack? Implanted commlink? This is another thing we take for granted every runner can do.

My interpretation of RAW:
Trodes provide the DNI necessary to control a commlink and other nodes on your PAN mentally. Sim Module allows for direct I/O of all sensory data to/from your PAN or other nodes. Sim Rig lets you record the sensory data. Implanted commlink is only necessary if you want to raise the difficuly of your commlink being removed from your person and/or not have to use trodes.

[TheOOB]

One thing you have to remember is that shadowrunners are professionals, and their reputation is very important. A runner who sells out a Johnson will never find work again, and a Johnson with a lot to hide won't hire runners who don't have a reputation. And, if you really can afford to have something recorded, don't show it to anyone. Runners Companion talks a lot about how everything in the 6th world is recorded, but why that doesn't always mean what you might think it means.

[Yerameyahu]

You can do this with just *eyes*, and a simrig. Which everyone should have. Or a microcamera, literally invisible to the naked eye I think?

[FuelDrop]

It suddenly occurs to me that a camera neutralized might detect cybereyes and blast them automatically...
that would suck!

Rules wise I'd probably count it as a flash-pack for anyone with cybereyes trying to shoot at someone or something equipped with a camera neutralizer... *nods thoughtfully, stroking Beard of Evil™*

[SpellBinder]

I'd recon there's a basic facial recognition program with a camera neutralizier so it can recognize cybereyes in a person's head to other cameras. Of course, said program can likely be hacked or edited...

Thanks for the idea, FuelDrop.

[kzt]

One thing you have to remember is that shadowrunners are professionals, and their reputation is very important. A runner who sells out a Johnson will never find work again, and a Johnson with a lot to hide won't hire runners who don't have a reputation.

Bah, dead Johnsons tell no tales.

[FuelDrop]

Bah, dead Johnsons tell no tales.

Johnsons are middlemen. you'll need to kill the guy who employed him for no tales to be told.

[Lantzer]

It suddenly occurs to me that a camera neutralized might detect cybereyes and blast them automatically...
that would suck!

Rules wise I'd probably count it as a flash-pack for anyone with cybereyes trying to shoot at someone or something equipped with a camera neutralizer... *nods thoughtfully, stroking Beard of Evil™*

Cybereyes are CCD cameras, so yes, a camera neutralizer would treat them as such. So I'd be careful with a CN if I don't want to be arrested for assault.

[Yerameyahu]

I'm not aware that neutralizers detect cybereyes, no. They might as well just 'neutralize' everyone's eyes, cyber or not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lantzer]

I'm not aware that neutralizers detect cybereyes, no. They might as well just 'neutralize' everyone's eyes, cyber or not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Non-cyber (normal) eyes wouldn't set off the pattern-recognition software that the CN uses to aim the lasers. Cybereyes are cameras. The functional end is the same, with the same technology. So a piece of gear designed to attack cameras would attack cybereyes.

I'd put camera neutralizers in places where people aren't supposed to be anyway. Keeps those darned papparazzi at bay, without attacking the general public.

I suppose that's another good reason for mirrorshades.

[Yerameyahu]

No, I'm saying: why wouldn't someone simply change that pattern recognition to intentionally blind *everything*? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Also, I'm not convinced cybereyes would ping the normal system. They look like eyes. You could just as easily say the game treats them as eyes, not cameras.

[FuelDrop]

I just got my hands on a copy of the herolab spy games download and spotted the camera burner. It's basically a camera neutralizer on steroids that permanently destroys any camera it hits unless it has flare protection (which has a chance to save it).

Assuming that it does work on cybereyes... that could be both really nasty and very expensive. As I understand it Cybereyes are the most common form of augmentation, so setting up a camera burner in a public place is an incredibly destructive way of creating a distraction. It'll also kill cameras from commlinks, just to be even nastier to the unfortunate civilians in the area.

[Yerameyahu]

Another reason to assume it doesn't work. We'd have heard otherwise!

[FuelDrop]

Another reason to assume it doesn't work. We'd have heard otherwise!

well we know it works on drone sensors...

[kzt]

Another reason to assume it doesn't work. We'd have heard otherwise!

Your assuming that CGL thinks about the obvious implications of the stuff they toss out, or even understands that the concept of implications. I haven't seen any evidence of this since Frank and AH bailed, and certainly the idiocy in Bogota! could lead one to think that everyone involved quit school in 6th grade to work as a roadie for a rock band.

[Manunancy]

In my opinion the problem with the camera burner is what exactly it uses to tell (that thing here is a camera and i need to fry it' - a simple 'probe' low-power laser beam that spots glass would react to mere glasses, windows and the like so you probably miwx that with a camera and some sort of pattern recognition to discriminate what's what. Which means it will happily fry your cameras too, unless it can include some sort of IFF system.

[kzt]

In my opinion the problem with the camera burner is what exactly it uses to tell (that thing here is a camera and i need to fry it' - a simple 'probe' low-power laser beam that spots glass would react to mere glasses, windows and the like so you probably miwx that with a camera and some sort of pattern recognition to discriminate what's what. Which means it will happily fry your cameras too, unless it can include some sort of IFF system.

I suspect they were trying for the effect noted here: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/FutureTec...9800&page=1

[FuelDrop]

In my opinion the problem with the camera burner is what exactly it uses to tell (that thing here is a camera and i need to fry it' - a simple 'probe' low-power laser beam that spots glass would react to mere glasses, windows and the like so you probably miwx that with a camera and some sort of pattern recognition to discriminate what's what. Which means it will happily fry your cameras too, unless it can include some sort of IFF system.

Yeah, I think that both a camera neutralizer and a camera burner need to have an IFF system, particularly if anyone in your group is using a smartgun system, cybereyes, any form of surveillance gear, a commlink, or... hang on, almost every shadowrunner is going to have at least one part of that list already!

...Yeah, a IFF system is pretty much a must have.

Ooh, what happens if you install a camera in your contact lenses and a camera burner detects it? that can't be fun!

[Makki]

How to prevent the runners from doing it in a meet?

Runners may very well record the meet with the Johnson. However, they won't find any relevant information on him except for him being a regular Johnson. He's just a middle man doing his job. If they ever figured out something important about a Johnson and his affiliations and tried to sell it, use it, take advantage, Runners at my table could expect a "Goodbye"- call from their fixer immidiately. Because they're rules even in the shadows.
However, the recorded information can be helpful if it's the screwing-kind of Johnson.

[kzt]

However, the recorded information can be helpful if it's the screwing-kind of Johnson.

We always made it a point to kill anyone who tried that. Things sometimes work out badly and that's OK, but we would expend a lot of effort to get anyone who set us up.

[The Jopp]

An Eye recorder installed into a meat-eye would be impossible for a camera neutralizer to even find.

It can be inside the head connected to the visual cortex so it is dependent on the natural vision of the user.

[Thanee]

Virtual meetings, Physical Mask spell, physical disguises, ...

Bye
Thanee

[The Jopp]

I imagine that anything important in 2070+ will not be obviously visible or simply only available for the initiated or criminals intended to see/have it.

[Nath]

So how can Mr. Boss man even speak to anyone without risking being recorded in trideo? How to prevent the runners from doing it in a meet? How can the runners prevent anyone from doing it when being a witness?

Not a definitive answer, but I know quite a number of GM consider technology allows audio, video and trideo to be doctored in a way nearly undistinguishable from authentic records (not to mention "authentic records" actually showing an actor with physical mask or a trid phantasm). That premise would imply that records sould have near zero value as proof. But they can retain some value for intelligence (removing the need for police portraits for instance).

One thing you have to remember is that shadowrunners are professionals, and their reputation is very important. A runner who sells out a Johnson will never find work again, and a Johnson with a lot to hide won't hire runners who don't have a reputation.

Runners have a reputation, a willingness to commit crimes, and some skills. A fixer really only has a reputation. His job is to bring together trusthworty people to hammer a deal. If one side doesn't meet the expectation of the other, it's the fixer fault, and his reputation is hurt. Compare to what usually happens to mobster who introduced police informants or undercover cops to the gang.

That's why M. Johnson does need to know the runners' names or anything: the fixer does. He knows who they are, he knows where they live, he knows which fake SIN they use and which accounts store their pay. Because he provided most of it in the first place. If he didn't, another fixer did, and they know each other and will warn the "community" about untrustworthy runners and Johnsons.

(insert here a dozen of forum replies of people narrating how their character is so unbelievably good that he doesn't need a fixer for anything)